Why do Seniors Fight so Hard to Survive?

dko1951

Member
Since joining this forum I have enjoyed the many topics and humor shared by all. One thing that stands out to me is how so many have expressed the need to live long lives beyond the time they are at. Perhaps if I had everything I desired I may do the same, but I don’t believe so.

I have lived a very simple life and really don’t want for much. Never have. That’s just me. I truly never expected to be here this long and I am so OK, some might say even ready for whatever comes next. I am sincerely asking the question as I plain don’t get it.

A brief story that I experienced not too long ago. I had a tachycardia event where my heart rate was 185 beats per minute. This lasted twenty minutes until the EMT’s showed up and went down to 150 by the time I got to the hospital. I have DNR in place and on the way to the hospital I asked one EMT “kind of ironic, I have a DNR and here I am in an ambulance". I sat in the hospital for three hours and they sent me home. It made me, think why did I do this? I had two more similar events in the next two weeks and just rode them out in my room.

I have lived a wonderful life that I enjoyed very much. I am not enjoying the process of decomposition above ground that the elderly must go through towards the end. I am not afraid of dying so maybe that’s one reason I think the way I do.

So. to my question, why? Please don’t preach to me about seeing the good and positive. I get all that. I just don’t understand the need for the fight.
 

I understand what you are saying and have no answer.

I had a dear friend that had every operation or procedure that Medicaid would pay for to extend his life. He genuinely enjoyed the attention and learning about the science behind them.

I’m the exact opposite, make me comfortable and spare me the details.
 

I have experienced times when I thought it was a "good day to die". In fact that has happened for over 30 years occasionally. I found out that thinking that way is a lot easier than actually dying. So I am not sure that the word "fight" is right for me. Sure, I have had a good life, and I to am struggling with illnesses as I age, but it is easier to ride out the illness than it is to give up.
 
I wish I could tell you but I have no idea. Guess it's just human nature; instinct to live no matter what?

My mother will be 102 soon and has been in a full care nursing home for 2 years now. Her health is generally pretty good other than the normal 'old people' stuff. The home has been on some degree of lockdown since she entered, just as Covid was ramping up.

She's always been a loner, not social by any means so stays in her room mostly, even choosing to have meals there rather than in the common dinning area. She's still pretty sharp mentally and knows things are never going to get better for her at this point because she complains about it almost every time I speak with her.

Her attitude at this point is "There's nothing to look forward to anymore; I'm just waiting to die" and that's it! Yet, she's still waking up every day and carrying on with life, as dull and uninteresting as it may be.

I always thought when people were in her situation, they just gave up the will to live any longer and passed peacefully in their sleep usually. Apparently, that's not the case. Pretty sure I don't want to end up where she is at some point down the road 🙏
 
Why do Seniors Fight so Hard to Survive?
You ask a good question. I have a few ideas:
  1. Instinct, we all have a strong survival instinct that continues on into old age.
  2. Still enjoying life and want to keep on enjoying it.
  3. A feeling of obligation to others, when my mother had terminal cancer she apologized over and over for leaving us so soon.
  4. A belief, possibly religious, that we have an obligation to live as long as possible.
I would like to think that when I am no longer enjoying life I will find a way to end it. I see nothing wrong or immoral about doing that, just the legal problems. Of course that will mean overcoming #1, I think I will be able to do that, but you never know until the time comes.

Not all societies see ending of life the way we do. One interesting case described by Jared Diamond is worth reading:

"The Kaulong people of New Britain used to have an extreme way of dealing with families in mourning. Until the 1950s, newly widowed women on the island off New Guinea were strangled by their husband's brothers or, in their absence, by one of their own sons. Custom dictated no other course of action. Failure to comply meant dishonour, and widows would make a point of demanding strangulation as soon as their husbands had expired.

The impact on families was emotionally shattering, as Jared Diamond makes clear in his latest book, The World Until Yesterday. "In one case, a widow – whose brothers-in-law were absent – ordered her own son to strangle her," he says. "But he could not bring himself to do it. It was too horrible. So, in order to shame him into killing her, the widow marched through her village shouting that her son did not want to strangle her because he wanted to have sex with her instead." Humiliated, the son eventually killed his mother."
 
Last edited:
I wish I could tell you but I have no idea. Guess it's just human nature; instinct to live no matter what?
My mother will be 102 soon and has been in a full care nursing home for 2 years now. Her health is generally pretty good other than the normal 'old people' stuff. The home has been on some degree of lockdown since she entered, just as Covid was ramping up. She's always been a loner, not social by any means so stays in her room mostly, even choosing to have meals there rather than in the common dinning area. She's still pretty sharp mentally and knows things are never going to get better for her at this point because she complains about it almost every time I speak with her. Her attitude at this point is "There's nothing to look forward to anymore; I'm just waiting to die" and that's it! Yet, she's still waking up every day and carrying on with life, as dull and uninteresting as it may be.

I always thought when people were in her situation, they just gave up the will to live any longer and passed peacefully in their sleep usually. Apparently, that's not the case. Pretty sure I don't want to end up where she is at some point down the road 🙏
You bring up a good point. The instinct to survive is in us as much as any other creature on earth. and we like them, are not aware, it just is there.
 
Why ? Probably has a lot to do with life already lived & life in the moment. No mystery that enjoying both isn't the same for everyone. Until I read your post I didn't think about how fortunate I am to be enjoying both.
Thank you for giving me that as an opportunity to reflect.

I wish for you some measure of good to enjoy so you change your thinking about not using DNR.
 
Why ? Probably has a lot to do with life already lived & life in the moment. No mystery that enjoying both isn't the same for everyone. Until I read your post I didn't think about how fortunate I am to be enjoying both.
Thank you for giving me that as an opportunity to reflect.

I wish for you some measure of good to enjoy so you change your thinking about not using DNR.
Thanks for your thoughts. When the time comes as they say. it's all good.
 
Ah, tachycardia is nothing.
Easily solved.
Have a good doctor prescribe a pill to slow your heartbeat.
No side effects, no dizziness, no gasping for breath ever again.

but about death,
Death is such a little thing.

People seem to be afraid of what they don't understand.
Me? I'm gonna run to it! I'm excited about my next existence.
Don't ever be afraid of anything!
 
I still enjoy life and want it to last as long as possible. I'm also curious about what the future will bring. One of my biggest objections to death is the fact that I will never know what happens after I die. I am so pleased to have lived long enough to know my great grand children. There are still many things I enjoy doing - and learning new things is at the top of the list!
 
One thing that stands out to me is how so many have expressed the need to live long lives beyond the time they are at.
Been one for me too

Please forgive me for this long post, but this comment revived a memory of something I wrote awhile back;

Thoughts on Dad

A few years ago a lad from Scotland, I’d gotten to know, asked me how my Dad was doing, as I’d shared with him my Dad’s failings in what turned out to be his final year.

Maybe some of you folks can identify with what I wrote him.

In any event, I feel compelled to put it here, and probably in my next book.

You see, my Dad was my hero.

Oh, I wasn’t his favorite, but that didn’t matter.

For many years he was God to me, could do no wrong, I hid my wrongs from him.

Sure, as I grew, I saw his faults, but, heh, they were few.

And mine became less as I used him as a life model.

Here’s what I Emailed;

He’s a gamer, Shaun.

Days ago he was on his death bed.

Chemo and infection was taking him down…..quick.

He’s on the rebound.

To where……. I have no idea.

I visited him last weekend while he was staying at the rehab center (nursing home).

Didn’t readily recognize him.

No hair

Tiny head

Sunken eyes

Chair stickin’ half way outta the room, lookin’ out into the hall.

He looks like wunna those children with an aging disease.

He really lit up when he saw me.

I immediately felt real bad for not coming sooner.

He got up and scooted his chair back into the room, shuffling, pushing.

He invited me to sit.

There was only one extra chair

I think it had a piece of poop on it.

He had some sorta string of dried drool and blood comin’ from his lower lip, ending at his chin.

It made me sick to my stomach to look at him.

My Dad

My finicky Dad

The guy that remained well scrubbed, no matter what he did.

The guy with the weakest of stomachs.

The guy that just couldn’t eat if he thought the cook hadn’t washed his hands.

There he was……..disgusting

and so very happy to see me.

I wanted to stay and leave at the same time.

We went on a conversation loop.

He has about ten minutes of thought processing, then it starts all over again.

I grabbed his attention by saying I was thinking about going to church.

He did a feeble punch into the air, and displayed a flash of his tenacious old self, gritting his teeth and smiling with delight.

His old eyes lit up again, then welled, spilling tears as he told me how happy that made him.

Now I was disgusted with myself.

I wanted to cry along with him. I just can’t. It’s not in me.

I hadn’t lied.

I do think about it.

I think about conversation with rabid religionaires, and know why none of it is for me.

It was a visit of diverse emotions.

The nurse’s aide came in.

He questioningly introduced me as his cousin.

Well, in twenty minutes I’d completely muddled what’s left of his blithering mind.

I gave him a slight hug and left him with the aide.

Driving home, my thoughts were fixed on him.

What he is

What he once was

What I am

What I’m going to become

I recalled him and his cousin, his brother he never had, and how they talked about their aged parents

There is no fairness

There is just fact

Inescapable inevitable fact

It made me realize my own fallibility

I really don’t want to see him again

I will though

As long as I can make him happy, whether it’s a veiled lie, or just being there, I will see him, hug him, chat with him.

He has earned that…at the very least.

He’s a withered dying old man.

Cancer will take him.

I don’t think I have the guts for this, and what’s next, deteriorating visits

What have we done to think it good to keep my hero existing in his filth with confounded thoughts for as long as medically possible……

The Aleuts know what to do

The long walk and the bonk on the bean.

It’s much more heroic……respectful.

Thanks for asking, kid.

Enjoy thy youth

Other thoughts;

Thoughts on dad, death and dying excerpt

4:57

The End

Dad’s on his way out.

The guy that helped to explain death to this toddler (‘He’s dead.’) is gonna experience it himself, pretty soon now.

OK, so he wasn’t much with words, but sometimes the look on his face spoke volumes.

One time, years ago now (think I was 9), he’d come home from work. In those days he rode the bus.

He’d just talked with this lady that he’d been riding with for months. Right after they said their daily g’byes, a bus hit her, splattering her remains all over the street.

Dad had a terrible look fixed to his face.

He couldn’t eat.

‘arm here, leg there’

He kept reliving it, over and over.

‘I’d just talked to her’

Mom seemed a bit cold about it, like the lady was a possible affair of Dad’s.

I imagine her mind went places like ‘he probably talked to her more than he talks to me’.

‘yer not gonna eat?’

‘can’t’

‘fine’

Him and I visited grampa when he was wasting away in the nursing home.

The place wreaked of pee….old man pee….old woman pee (shudder).

The facility was remarkably clean, but I guess all that pee had permeated the walls.

You sorta got used to it…sorta.

Hours after we left I’d still get an occasional whiff of old person pee.

There grampa was, in the railed hospital bed, sunken toothless mouth open, hardly breathin’.

I don’t know how Dad did it.

He’d stop there every day after work, and ‘visit’ his dad, bringing me on the weekends.

Dad would get right in his ear… ‘DAD, DO YOU REMEMBER GARY?’

Grampa may have moved an eye lid.

I noticed he still had muscular arms,

his neck still thick as a bull’s.

Everything else was dissipated, atrophied, large hands curled up like he was writing something.

He stayed that way for months it seemed.

My dad is bald now.

Third of six weeks of chemo.

A real salvo.

He can’t keep food down…or up.

It’s a crap shoot.

No, really.

He craps with the regularity of exhalation.

Peeing out his hind end, basically.

It’s a gamble too.

Waste away while the cancer gnaws at yer guts, or attack and see who/what wins.

It’ll be down to the wire….at 90.

His wife just called.

He’s back in the hospital.

Getting pumped with electrolytes…….and chemo.

He loves life so.

I can see him lingering like grampa.

Wonder if I’ll visit his bedside daily, like he did for his dad.

I feel I should.

He’s been a really good dad.

A nice man.

A simple man.

Hard worker

Determined

He’s always presented a rosy outlook, somewhat like a salesman.

Without knowing it, I’ve kinda studied him.

We’ve never really had any heart to heart talks.

I don’t think I’ve missed anything.

We’ve had talks, it’s just that he’s always been the one doing the talking.

Dad, I look at you there, a bit shriveled, somewhat vacant eyed, I wonder, wonder why you struggle so. What’s left for you that’s so precious?

I think about you and me, so many years ago now.

Visiting grampa in the nursing home.

You, yelling in his ear.

Hoping for a sign, a flicker of recognition.

Him, shallow breath. Not moving a muscle.

I can only think that the prevailing reason for the struggle is the love of life itself
 
Last edited:
You ask a good question. I have a few ideas:
  1. Instinct, we all have a strong survival instinct that continues on into old age.
  2. Still enjoying life and want to keep on enjoying it.
  3. A feeling of obligation to others, when my mother had terminal cancer she apologized over and over for leaving us so soon.
  4. A belief, possibly religious, that we have an obligation to live as long as possible.
I would like to think that when I am no longer enjoying life I will find a way to end it. I see nothing wrong or immoral about doing that, just the legal problems. Of course that will mean overcoming #1, I think I will be able to do that, but you never know until the time comes.

Not all societies see ending of life the way we do. One interesting case described by Jared Diamond is worth reading:

"The Kaulong people of New Britain used to have an extreme way of dealing with families in mourning. Until the 1950s, newly widowed women on the island off New Guinea were strangled by their husband's brothers or, in their absence, by one of their own sons. Custom dictated no other course of action. Failure to comply meant dishonour, and widows would make a point of demanding strangulation as soon as their husbands had expired.

The impact on families was emotionally shattering, as Jared Diamond makes clear in his latest book, The World Until Yesterday. "In one case, a widow – whose brothers-in-law were absent – ordered her own son to strangle her," he says. "But he could not bring himself to do it. It was too horrible. So, in order to shame him into killing her, the widow marched through her village shouting that her son did not want to strangle her because he wanted to have sex with her instead." Humiliated, the son eventually killed his mother."
just read some more on this...

Widow-strangling occurred because the Kaulong believed male spirits needed the company of females to survive the after-life. It is a grotesque notion but certainly not the only fantastic idea to have gripped traditional societies, says Diamond.

images


Other habits have included infanticide and outbreaks of war between neighbours, though these are balanced with many cases of care and compassion, particularly for the elderly, and a concern for the environment that shames the west.

"But this was the only way of life that humans knew for their first 6m years on the planet. In giving it up over the past few thousand years, we have lost our vulnerability to disease and cold and wild animals, but we have also lost good ways to bring up children, look after old people, stave off diabetes and heart disease and understand the real dangers of everyday life."
 
1. I an otherwise mortal organic life loving creature do not want to die, to not exist, the saddest imaginable thing.
2. I as an intelligent entity wish to exist meaningfully pleasantly forever eternally on this planet, in this universe.
3. To eternally lose my life experiences as memories of everything I've ever done and experienced, everyone I've ever loved, is immensely sad.
4. The most emotionally painful experiences in my life have been when those I have loved die. It is only then when I have sensed the truly incredible depth love can be. As a child, I cried when Old Yeller died.
5. I immensely value my life as it now exists and can imagine even greater existence.
6. The immensely complex blue water life Earth offers eternally interesting and fulfilling possibilities for an Earth creature as we humans find ourselves.
7. As a modern science educated and oriented person, I expect beyond a mortal organic existence, it is very much potentially possible to exist as EMF fields within a non-organic container that recreates our fleshly organic neural system impedances, a race of ancient Ultimate Intelligent Entities, UIE, might offer.
8. If UIEs exist, arguably the greatest achievement they could create would be ways to non-organically extend the existence of otherwise mortal intelligent organic entities. And organic entities would lovingly gratefully appreciate such.


A. Have you ever stood within an immense field of fragrant spring flowers buzzing with bees and butterflies?
B. Have you ever bounced like an incredibly happily delirious rabbit down a slope of fresh dry cold powder snow?
C. Have you sat contently absorbing with all your senses, the incredibly complex and interesting rocky shores of an immense ocean?
D. Have you enjoyed experiencing the utter wonder and beauty of high alpine landscapes?
E. As a DNA organic bilateral Earth creature have you ever enjoyed the intimate physical love and joy of a life mate?
F. Do you love to sometimes watch young children at play?
G. Do you have fun and know how to enjoy yourself beyond usual visceral pleasure pursuits like food, sex, drugs?
H. Do you enjoy learning about the endless complexities and histories of the human world, the Earth, the vast Universe?
I. Have you ever been part of a large human crowd at an inspiring exciting, wondrous music concert?
J. Have you ever enjoyed being part of a large human crowd at an exciting sporting event?
K. Much more of course that I could go on and on about, books have been written about.


a. If I lived a life similar to what appears to be that of significant numbers of others, even without pain or distress, I too might not wish to live forever and rather welcome death.
b. If I had a constant pain that could not be removed like an abscessed tooth ache, I would not want to live or exist.
c. If my physically capable body and mind became so deteriorated from old age that I could do and experience little as I did when younger and capable, and that was the only existence possible in an afterlife, I would not want to exist.
d. If living meant some boring limited existence or existence lacking meaning or purpose, I might not want to live.
e. If I had little understanding or any future interest in the world and universe I live in, I might not want to exist forever.


Yes I do want to exist.
 
"But this was the only way of life that humans knew for their first 6m years on the planet. In giving it up over the past few thousand years, we have lost our vulnerability to disease and cold and wild animals, but we have also lost good ways to bring up children, look after old people, stave off diabetes and heart disease and understand the real dangers of everyday life."
I think the trade off has been worthwhile. Living much longer, healthier, safer and more comfortable lives. Not that we couldn't learn some things from how our ancestors lived, I know we could.
Widow-strangling occurred because the Kaulong believed male spirits needed the company of females to survive the after-life.
Oh, well at least they had a reason...

What if the widow hadn't liked her husband so much, and maybe did not want to go with him into eternity? And do you suppose the thinking was the same for widowers?
 
I am not overly eager to shuffle off this mortal coil; however, the value of remaining here would depend largely on my physical condition and my ability to participate meaningfully in llfe. That is to say that, for me, slobbering in my wheelchair sitting in a corner of some nursing home has no value at all.

Should it come to the point where I see that as my reasonable future, I will manage the matter myself.
 
What @Alligatorob said. Except my desire (though not obligation) now is to help my son, grandchildren, honorary daughter and honorary granddaughter whenever and however I can. I still feel I have stuff to accomplish as well. I'm not afraid of dying, though I wouldn't want to face a horrible or extremely painful death. My living will states I do not want to be kept alive by artificial means and extreme measures.
 
Last edited:
I am still very interested in what happens next. Who will win the next election, and who will win the Presidential election in 2024? Will Covid ever completely disappear from our lives? How about a cure for cancer? Will my single grandkids ever marry their significant others? Will I get to meet my latest great-grandkid, and will there be more? How much longer will my laptop hang in there, without having to buy another one?

And lots of other questions.
 
I'm a medium so I have contact with those who have left this world. It sounds pretty boring actually, and most of them spend their time with living humans so that they can still experience life on Earth, albeit in a second-hand way. This has made me appreciate the simple fact of being alive and still being part of the living world.
 

Back
Top