Why do the vaccine arguments continue?

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win231 said:
Another reason the "Vaccine Arguments" continue:
People who are vaccinated keep getting Covid.
That causes the intelligent thinkers among us to question the vaccine's usefulness.
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And the results worldwide? People who got the jab keep dying.

Yes, others die also, but why play russian roulette with a jab that is known to break the immune system and attack your own organs eventually ?
 

Just Jeff said:
"The COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most manipulated infectious disease events in history, characterized by official lies in an unending stream lead by government bureaucracies, medical associations, medical boards, the media, and international agencies.[3,6,57] We have witnessed a long list of unprecedented intrusions into medical practice, including attacks on medical experts, destruction of medical careers among doctors refusing to participate in killing their patients and a massive regimentation of health care, led by non-qualified individuals with enormous wealth, power and influence."
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This ^ is true, and of course it's caused widespread confusion and derision. Not only lies from non-medical people, manipulated studies and data from corporations that stand to make a fortune, and intentionally misleading headlines from the media, but also, as you pointed out, silencing people trying to share certain facts, data, and serious concerns.

Unfortunately, we've had to slosh through tons of published research, like @Nathan said, and even do a deep dive into who funded this study and that research. It's a task a lot of average people don't have time for, and some of it's really hard to understand. This is the first time people have had to bother with all that, so it's no surprise there's so much arguing going on.
 
Alligatorob said:
(me: No one knows for certain what the long term effects .. might be.)

The same could be said for many things in life, not just medicines. I don't see any reason this one should be of especially great concern, but I do understand others worry. Probably the best reason I have heard for not getting vaccinated. I don't agree, but then I have not always been right!
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You don't agree that no one knows for sure about the long term effects? There's no way to know until some time has past. In fact, an added benefit of tracking covid and keeping better-than-ever record-keeping is that it will be a huge help in finding and studying any side effects that might start popping up in the future.
 

When, as it is, the short term effects are increased death, increased health problems, tremendously higher costs, why be concerned any with long term effects ? It will be the same long term and worse - increased death, increased health problems and extremely high monetary costs.
 
Bella said:
Perhaps there are some people who might find this article from the NIH National Library of Medicine—National Center for Biotechnology Information interesting.

COVID UPDATE: What is the truth? By Dr. Russell Blaylock, a nationally recognized, board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer. >> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/


Bella ✌️
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And perhaps some people might find this article about Blaylock interesting. Pointing back of course to the last paragraph in the original post of this thread by @Sunny.
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/russell-blaylock/
 
Just Jeff said:
When, as it is, the short term effects are increased death, increased health problems, tremendously higher costs, why be concerned any with long term effects ? It will be the same long term and worse - increased death, increased health problems and extremely high monetary costs.
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It's true that out of billions of vaccinated people, a small but not insignificant percentage have died. Their deaths are being studied for specific causes on a cellular level to find out exactly why these people's bodies responded the way they did, and if there's a commonality among the people who died and those who acquired similar health issues and etc, so they can determine who should absolutely not get that particular vaccine, and even exactly how to improve the vaccine.

We usually have these serious issues ironed out before a vaccine is approved for the public.
 
Sunny said:
OK, the disease has been with us for about 2 1/2 years. Most people are vaccinated. A tragic number died of Covid before there was a vaccine. People are continuing to die, overwhelmingly those who have not been vaccinated. (Die of Covid, I mean. Obviously, people continue to die of all sorts of other things. Even vaccinated people can get cancer, strokes, etc.)

For pretty much every other infectious disease, we have vaccines, or are developing them. Most people get the vaccines, if they are available to them. Some do not, for various reasons. (Underlying conditions, they don't believe in vaccines, fear of needles, religious beliefs, etc.) Yet, I have never seen ongoing arguments, often of a very childish nature, about any other disease. We all have our opinions, and as adults we live our lives accordingly.

You want to remain alive and healthy as long as possible, and avoid getting a terrible disease? Fine, so you get the vaccine, might have a sore arm for a day or so (or not), and that's the end of the subject. But with Covid, we get graphs, charts, insults, "proofs" of who is right and who is wrong, and it goes on endlessly. There is apparently nothing that will change the minds of those who have been convinced that this vaccine is somehow a bad thing. It's useless, it's fake, it is being promoted ONLY to make the pharma companies rich, etc. It would be ludicrous if it weren't so sad.

So, why? Well, I think the answer is obvious. This is the only disease I can think of that has been so politicized. And that's what we're really arguing about, isn't it?
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You are a brave soul to bring up this topic again. I agree with you but don't wish to get into the Covid arguments I got into previously. I will just sit back and watch as everyone pontificates about their beliefs. As I've said before, I don't think anyone in this forum is going to change the minds of anyone else who has made a decision re: Covid, science, vaccines, etc.

I've looked for more common interests and have found that there are members that may have opposing views about the vaccines but are on the same page on many other topics. I will respond to them in those threads.
 
dseag2 said:
I don't think anyone in this forum is going to change the minds of anyone else who has made a decision re: Covid, science, vaccines, etc.
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A point well proven!

Actually some of the discussion here has changed my mind a little on some things.

After reading what people were saying about masks, I looked to some of the underlying data and studies and became convinced that mask wearing provides only marginal protection to a healthy person. However a sick person wearing a mask does provide protection to the healthy. Before reading these threads I had thought that mask wearing protected all, and provided more protection than they do. As a result I do wear a mask when I am sick or think I might be, but not at other times unless its required.

I have also developed a better understanding of folks who are against vaccination. I still think they are wrong, but I am less likely to judge now.

But nothing here has changed my mind about getting the vaccination. Probably few people have. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's mind has changed. Either way.
 
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Bella said:
Perhaps there are some people who might find this article from the NIH National Library of Medicine—National Center for Biotechnology Information interesting.

COVID UPDATE: What is the truth? By Dr. Russell Blaylock, a nationally recognized, board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer. >> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/


Bella ✌️
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But although the editorial is published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, it provides no solid scientific evidence to back up its claims, only unfiltered conjecture from its author, according to Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, PhD, an epidemiologist with the University of Wollongong in Australia.

Meyerowitz-Katz wrote a Twitter thread outlining his concerns with the editorial, calling the piece "bizarre" and "astonishingly unscientific." The epidemiologist told MedPage Today that many of the papers cited in the editorial actually disagree with the points made in the editorial.

Additionally, Meyerowitz-Katz noted that the most frequently cited reference in the editorial is anti-vaccine advocate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s book, The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health – a source he deemed "obviously not reliable."

Blaylock also links to conspiracy theory blogs, Meyerowitz-Katz said. One quotes Ryan Cole, MD, a pathologist in Idaho under fire for spreading COVID misinformation, as seeing a "dramatic spike" in aggressive cancers among vaccinated individuals but provides no data to support that claim.

Several other references in Blaylock's article are to items by physicians infamous for spreading COVID misinformation, being active in political movements, and speaking at conservative rallies, such as Peter McCullough, MD, Pierre Kory, MD, Meryl Nass, MD, and Joseph Mercola, DO, to name a few.

"While Dr. Blaylock is, of course, entitled to his opinion, this is supported in the article largely by low-quality sources that completely lack credibility or simply do not support his argument," Meyerowitz-Katz said. "Much of the editorial is supported by no references at all and simply represents the author's own views."

Blaylock has a history of spreading misinformation in the nutrition world, claiming that certain food additives are "excitotoxic" to the brain in normal doses. Many have credited the former neurosurgeon for starting the health scare around monosodium glutamate (MSG), after he wrote in his 1994 book, Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills, that it could be linked to brain damage and neurodegenerative diseases.

The physician has also historically opposed vaccines, notably stating that the swine flu was a human-made virus, and promoting cold showers as a remedy to counter the "dangerous effects" of the H1N1 vaccine.

Blaylock currently sells supplements called "Brain Repair Formula" and writes for the conservative news outlet Newsmax. He also serves as associate editor of the neuroinflammation section of Surgical Neurology International.

That journal is an "independent publication that is not affiliated with any society or organization," according to the journal website. It was established in 2010, and is published by Scientific Scholar.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/98940
 
Alligatorob said:
But nothing here has changed my mind about getting the vaccination. Probably few people have. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's mind has changed. Either way.
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Decades ago I was unbelievably /with what was known then/ pro-pharmacy, studied and worked in four hospitals pharmacies, and did not know anything at first about the deception going on every day.

Gradually, over about four years time, while working in pharmacy, I asked enough questions of those working in pharmacy field, pharmacists, techs, and representatives, and discovered from them, from the people making their living in pharmacy, that they wanted the 'great' amount of money they were paid more than they wanted to help people. They ALL said yes, they want the money more than telling the truth, every one of them at the time.

So , I got out. And never looked back. I was the only one out of many who did not want the money at the cost of lying every day, the cost of hiding the truth from all the patients and everyone else regarding the rightness or the effectiveness of drugs.

It surprised me greatly that most people don't care, and they never look into finding the truth about drugs, nor the history of pharmacy.

It was and still is a great joy to meet others who did care, who did find out, and who know the complete corruption of the drug makers is not only deceiving the whole world,
they are simple or courageous enough to tell the truth and not to go along with the lies.

For almost a century, the evidence is overwhelming of the deceptiveness of the drug makers and drug promoters.
 
Ruthanne said:
All I can say is that I'm glad I have not been paying attention to the arguments here!
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The Truth Has Not Changed In A Hundred Years/ Actually Ever.

The Internet is No Place to Trust, Just Like People Everywhere, Mostly In Error Every Day.

The Best To Hope For For Anyone Is That They Will Start To Look For Truth, and Keep Looking.
 
Murrmurr said:
Political division aside, the main argument has been DNA vaccines ~vs~ MRNA vaccines.

Respectively, a vaccine that's been tested over decades and is reasonably predictable that uses the whole virus, dead or living, and a vaccine that contains a very briefly tested single-stranded molecule of RNA and only a tiny portion of the virus. No one knows for certain what the long term effects of the latter might be. And now it's been approved for infants and children, and I'm sure that's why people are still arguing about it....or arguing again.
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Bingo and it goes on and on.
 
Just Jeff said:
Decades ago I was unbelievably /with what was known then/ pro-pharmacy, studied and worked in four hospitals pharmacies, and did not know anything at first about the deception going on every day.

Gradually, over about four years time, while working in pharmacy, I asked enough questions of those working in pharmacy field, pharmacists, techs, and representatives, and discovered from them, from the people making their living in pharmacy, that they wanted the 'great' amount of money they were paid more than they wanted to help people. They ALL said yes, they want the money more than telling the truth, every one of them at the time.

So , I got out. And never looked back. I was the only one out of many who did not want the money at the cost of lying every day, the cost of hiding the truth from all the patients and everyone else regarding the rightness or the effectiveness of drugs.

It surprised me greatly that most people don't care, and they never look into finding the truth about drugs, nor the history of pharmacy.

It was and still is a great joy to meet others who did care, who did find out, and who know the complete corruption of the drug makers is not only deceiving the whole world,
they are simple or courageous enough to tell the truth and not to go along with the lies.

For almost a century, the evidence is overwhelming of the deceptiveness of the drug makers and drug promoters.
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Thanks for taking the time to respond Jeff.

Do you believe that many or most prescribed drugs have little value?

In my own, quite limited, experience I believe I have benefited from the drugs I have been prescribed. Mostly antibiotics and the occasional pain killer. The only prescription drug I take regularly is meloxicam for arthritis. I am quite sure it gives me relief.
 
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Thank goodness I've been stabbed, jabbed, and boosterized, but I keep forgetting to get the second booster. That will be my #1 task for the coming week. I think I can schedule it at Publix online.

At my age, I can't be too careful...
 

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