Why So Many Single Families?

[VaughanJB]

I understand your point but. IMO couples shouldn't have to try all that 'hard' to stay together. Again opinion but, couples are either meant to be together or they are not.

I think the point is, find out before procreation. Because at that point, it's not just about you are your partner, but about someone with no choice in the matter.

If you're not meant to be together, than find that out before a marriage.

 

[Pinky]

I was out shopping the other day, and I could hear a woman's voice shouting very loudly at her son who was enjoying himself on the kids play area. Her voice was very loud, and I thought she might be going through a bad time at home and taking it out on him. They then went into a
The Reject Shop which sells discount goods. Next minute I heard her say to him "I wish you were dead". I was flabbergasted on hearing this, and another woman looked at me shocked. I felt so bad that I didn't reprimand her being so cruel. The other lady said to me "You might be taking on more that you expect". I wonder how many times she says this to him? I don't believe there are delinquent children, only delinquent parents who treat their kids so cruelly.

When I lived in Adelaide, I witnessed a couple physically and verbally abusing their children in a supermarket. I was shocked and saddened that this was very likely an every day occurrence for these children. I wonder how many children become abusers in adulthood?

 

[Lilac]

I knew two different couples over the years who stayed together until their youngest kid was grown & then divorced. Both couples stayed on friendly terms after the divorces because of the kids & then later grand kids.

One reason for single mom's are women who are only interested with what she will be given in money & other support for having kids.

When I was in junior high, my one neighbor's son dated a women who already had a kid by another guy. Money came from welfare, not the biological father. Later when I was talking to her & she said if she wanted more money, she'd just have another kid & she was serious. She did that at least another time that I know of (neighbor's son was Dad #2). Never gave a damm about the kids, just the money she got.

Money more important over the kids attitude isn't uncommon IMO from what I seen in LE. Too many times toddlers were found roaming the street in filth found by passerby's & we couldn't find the parent sometimes until they realized the kid wondered off & called to see if they had been found. Sometimes Children Services would take them, but in the end handed them back the so-called mom.

 

[oscash]

I knew two different couples over the years who stayed together until their youngest kid was grown & then divorced. Both couples stayed on friendly terms after the divorces because of the kids & then later grand kids.

One reason for single mom's are women who are only interested with what she will be given in money & other support for having kids.

When I was in junior high, my one neighbor's son dated a women who already had a kid by another guy. Money came from welfare, not the biological father. Later when I was talking to her & she said if she wanted more money, she'd just have another kid & she was serious. She did that at least another time that I know of (neighbor's son was Dad #2). Never gave a damm about the kids, just the money she got.

Money more important over the kids attitude isn't uncommon IMO from what I seen in LE. Too many times toddlers were found roaming the street in filth found by passerby's & we couldn't find the parent sometimes until they realized the kid wondered off & called to see if they had been found. Sometimes Children Services would take them, but in the end handed them back the so-called mom.

Poor little children. My heart goes out to them.

 

[January]

I think the point is, find out before procreation. Because at that point, it's not just about you are your partner, but about someone with no choice in the matter.

If you're not meant to be together, than find that out before a marriage.

Well yes that would be ideal in a ideal world.

Unfortunately humans are fallible

And life doesn't always work out that way.

 

[oscash]

Some people like to try before they buy, and then it's too late.

 

[jujube]

When we lived in the Detroit area of Michigan (which was one of the most liberal welfare states in the country), my husband worked for a while in delinquency and dependency.

It was the highest aspiration for a class of young teen girls to get pregnant so they could quit school, move out of the parental home and get their own apartment. That was "making it". Of course one child often led to two, three, more, thus cementing the downward mobility.

He had families that had FIVE generations of females on some sort of public aid, with not a man in sight, at least not when the caseworker came on a visit.

There was very little incentive offered in those days to rise up and break the cycle.

 

[rgp]

I think the point is, find out before procreation. Because at that point, it's not just about you are your partner, but about someone with no choice in the matter.

If you're not meant to be together, than find that out before a marriage.

That was [is] my point exactly .... perhaps I didn't make it clear enough.

 

[HermitHogan]

When we lived in the Detroit area of Michigan (which was one of the most liberal welfare states in the country), my husband worked for a while in delinquency and dependency.

It was the highest aspiration for a class of young teen girls to get pregnant so they could quit school, move out of the parental home and get their own apartment. That was "making it". Of course one child often led to two, three, more, thus cementing the downward mobility.

He had families that had FIVE generations of females on some sort of public aid, with not a man in sight, at least not when the caseworker came on a visit.

There was very little incentive offered in those days to rise up and break the cycle.

Yep, I used to have a neighbor who was a social worker. She told me that the children in welfare families think their mothers have babies for a living.

 

[dilettante]

Some of this has to do with the unintended results that come from good-intentioned actions. Sort of like rabbits and Australia, etc. What was meant as helpful becomes addictive because the "cure" has consequences.

It's sad that those with a broader view often get censored and ignored when they try to point out dangers before such actions are implemented. Today the ignorant masses are likely to yell things like "racist" or "misogynist" when all someone is trying to do is warn people from swarming over a cliff like so many lemmings.

It's like everyone going down with the ship and drowning because they get paralyzed myopically focusing on the individual in inappropriate cases. How dare anyone try to organize the evacuation or prioritize evacuation based on societal or species survival!

 

[Murrmurr]

I steadfastly believe that the best upbringing is achieved by both parents being in the household. Children need both a nurturing mother, and father, working together.

Still, in the UK, 25% of families are single parent households. In the US there are 9.4m single parents. That breaks down to 7.3m Female parents, and 2.7 male led families. These numbers have been on the upswing for decades.

A decline in marriage (why?), increased divorce rates (why?), and just a plain upward swing of women having children on their own accounts for it.

We know that children coming from single parent homes and statistically more likely to commit crime. They get lower test scores, and can struggle with their emotions. This might seem obvious when you consider the strain they have grown up around.

Of course, it all comes down the quality of the parenting, and the opportunities provided. Not all single parent families are bad.

Is this trend a problem we should be addressing (somehow). Do you think it has affected society for the better, or worse? Do you think this trend will continue on?

In my opinion, a couple of problem-starters...

In the US, around the late 70s, a TV comedy series aired that featured a so-called typical American family and depicted the father as a useless moron. It was immediately popular, which sparked bunch of similar shows in the 80s and through the 90s, one of which was animated, hooking a bigger, younger audience. A lot of these shows got syndicated and went global.

Around the same time, partly because of the baby boom after WWII, houses and jobs got scarcer and college got ridiculously expensive. Also, apprenticeship programs lost funding...possibly not related to the baby boom, but definitely an economics issue. Maybe because of the war in Vietnam.

So families were struggling, and to solve the problem, the US expanded social services (welfare). But people discovered a significant flaw, which was that a family got far fewer benefits if the father lived in the home...but also if he didn't.

If a couple was married, their family was not eligible for full assistance from social services. Because the father/husband/boyfriend was considered more employable than a woman.

I think those things contributed the most to the destruction of traditional families.

 

[HermitHogan]

Here are some statistics for single parent households:

Race and Ethnicity

• African American families have the highest proportion of single-parent households, with around 65-70% of children born to single mothers.
• Hispanic/Latino families have about 40-45% single-parent households.
• White households have about 25% single-parent families.
• Asian families have the lowest proportion, with about 15% of children living in single-parent households.

There's a high correlation between poverty and single parent households. With poverty comes a high rate of incarceration of the fathers.

I don't know what the solution is, but forcing women to have children they can't afford to take care of is only going to make things worse.

 

[officerripley]

forcing women to have children they can't afford to take care of is only going to make things worse.

True.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I knew two different couples over the years who stayed together until their youngest kid was grown & then divorced. Both couples stayed on friendly terms after the divorces because of the kids & then later grand kids.

One reason for single mom's are women who are only interested with what she will be given in money & other support for having kids.

When I was in junior high, my one neighbor's son dated a women who already had a kid by another guy. Money came from welfare, not the biological father. Later when I was talking to her & she said if she wanted more money, she'd just have another kid & she was serious. She did that at least another time that I know of (neighbor's son was Dad #2). Never gave a damm about the kids, just the money she got.

Money more important over the kids attitude isn't uncommon IMO from what I seen in LE. Too many times toddlers were found roaming the street in filth found by passerby's & we couldn't find the parent sometimes until they realized the kid wondered off & called to see if they had been found. Sometimes Children Services would take them, but in the end handed them back the so-called mom.

These types of parents are one of many reasons I only lasted 4 years as a social worker despite having a master’s degree in the field. I have stayed on good terms with my kid’s dad through the years because I never wanted my kids to have to choose who could be at events, etc.

In April my oldest son and I went to Kansas to visit my middle son and stayed with my ex. We are all going again in 2 weeks because my youngest son is coming to visit from Vietnam and we haven’t seen him in 2 years. We are adults who can enjoy each other’s company. Nothing is more important than my kid’s happiness.

I’m also on good terms with ex husband number 3 because I helped him raise his son from the age of 8. He’s now married with a child and I value that relationship. Because I got married young in essence I raised 2 families.

I’m happy to be included in family events and I love my stepson very much. He gave me special recognition at his wedding telling everyone what a good stepmother I was. I guess I’m lucky that my ex’s know how to be adults).

 

[Murrmurr]

In my opinion, a couple of problem-starters...

In the US, around the late 70s, a TV comedy series aired that featured a so-called typical American family and depicted the father as a useless moron. It was immediately popular, which sparked bunch of similar shows in the 80s and through the 90s, one of which was animated, hooking a bigger, younger audience. A lot of these shows got syndicated and went global.

Around the same time, partly because of the baby boom after WWII, houses and jobs got scarcer and college got ridiculously expensive. Also, apprenticeship programs lost funding...possibly not related to the baby boom, but definitely an economics issue. Maybe because of the war in Vietnam.

So families were struggling, and to solve the problem, the US expanded social services (welfare). But people discovered a significant flaw, which was that a family got far fewer benefits if the father lived in the home...but also if he didn't.

If a couple was married, their family was not eligible for full assistance from social services. Because the father/husband/boyfriend was considered more employable than a woman.

I think those things contributed the most to the destruction of traditional families.

!>>>>Wrong<<<<!

There's these 3 guys, a set of twins and their older brother, who are neighbors of mine, and they come over and help me with yard work every week or so, and we shoot the breeze all the while they're here. The older one is 22, his twin bros are 20, and they live with their parents. Two of them work full time, the other has a part-time job and goes to a community college.

They all date but none of them has what we oldies call a steady girlfriend. So, thinking about this thread topic, and because they seem to be on the right path, I asked them how it's going with the ladies and if they're looking forward to getting married and starting a family.

I was pretty shocked. Here's some reasons they gave me for why it isn't going well with the ladies and they're not even thinking about starting a family, and it sounded bleak....

Impossible to find a girl who isn't teasing men on OnlyFans and then bashing them on Tik-Tok, X, YouTube, Instagram, snapchat, etc., or they don't do OnlyFans but they do the men-bashing all over social media.

Impossible to find a girl who isn't looking for a man who will bring home the bacon and cook it, too...and do his own laundry, his own shopping, the nastiest and most labor-intensive household chores and all the yardwork and home repairs...while paying all the bills.

Tough to find a girl who doesn't refer to herself as a Queen and expect to be treated as one while calling men toxic if they refer to themselves as King of the Castle, or even Head of Household.

Most girls today are looking for a man who will send her and her girl-pals on an exotic vacation at least twice a year, airfare, hotels, vacation clothes, and day spas included. For all. Except the guy who's paying for it, of course. He's not invited.

There was more, too. They all feel like young women today who hold a job believe that their money is theirs, and his money is theirs. She should get to keep what she earns, but he should buy the house and cover all expenses. And she's not saving that money; she's buying herself everything she "deserves" because she's a woman.

I'm guessing they misunderstand the concept behind the "empowerment" of women.

None of these 3 guys has ever dated a woman who would pay for dinner or even split the tab. Or even buy herself a drink, or buy him one. Including the self-proclaimed Queens and Heads of Household. These guys have all adopted this kick her to the curb guideline. Soon as a lady signals she's a queen, or in it for material things and financial support even if she works, there's no second date, They ditch her immediately.

And then I presume she goes on social media and bashes them.

 

[KSav]

I also didn’t disagree with my husband so my kids weren’t stressed out. They didn’t experience any fighting. I wanted them to have a good childhood. I put my kids first and I would do it again.

I did the same. Well, my husband and I did disagree—I was furious with him for walking out, refusing to even try marriage counseling—but for the most part (I'm not perfect) I swallowed my anger and focused on the kids. All three are now college graduates in successful careers and () in long-term, happy, stable relationships.

 

[KSav]

I think the point is, find out before procreation. Because at that point, it's not just about you are your partner, but about someone with no choice in the matter.

Exactly. It's the innocent children who suffer the most from divorce. It broke my heart that they had to move from our five-bedroom, three-bathroom house into a much smaller apartment. And my heart broke further to see them have to shuttle between two households. It was just so sad, and so unfair to them. Ugh. I hate to think of it now; my heart gets heavy all over again. And FWIW, I tried to convince my husband to try to work on the marriage, for the kids' sake, instead of just leaving. He refused.

 

[Pinky]

!>>>>Wrong<<<<!

There's these 3 guys, a set of twins and their older brother, who are neighbors of mine, and they come over and help me with yard work every week or so, and we shoot the breeze all the while they're here. The older one is 22, his twin bros are 20, and they live with their parents. Two of them work full time, the other has a part-time job and goes to a community college.

They all date but none of them has what we oldies call a steady girlfriend. So, thinking about this thread topic, and because they seem to be on the right path, I asked them how it's going with the ladies and if they're looking forward to getting married and starting a family.

I was pretty shocked. Here's some reasons they gave me for why it isn't going well with the ladies and they're not even thinking about starting a family, and it sounded bleak....

Impossible to find a girl who isn't teasing men on OnlyFans and then bashing them on Tik-Tok, X, YouTube, Instagram, snapchat, etc., or they don't do OnlyFans but they do the men-bashing all over social media.

Impossible to find a girl who isn't looking for a man who will bring home the bacon and cook it, too...and do his own laundry, his own shopping, the nastiest and most labor-intensive household chores and all the yardwork and home repairs...while paying all the bills.

Tough to find a girl who doesn't refer to herself as a Queen and expect to be treated as one while calling men toxic if they refer to themselves as King of the Castle, or even Head of Household.

Most girls today are looking for a man who will send her and their girl-pals on an exotic vacation at least twice a year, airfare, hotels, vacation clothes, and day spas included. For all. Except the guy who's paying for it, of course. He's not invited.

There was more, too. They all feel like young women today who hold a job believe that their money is theirs, and his money is theirs. She should get to keep what she earns, but he should buy the house and cover all expenses. And she's not saving that money; she's buying herself everything she "deserves" because she's a woman.

I'm guessing they misunderstand the concept behind the "empowerment" of women.

None of these 3 guys has ever dated a woman who would pay for dinner or even split the tab. Or even buy herself a drink, or buy him one. Including the self-proclaimed Queens and Heads of Household. These guys have all adopted this kick her to the curb guideline. Soon as a lady signals she's a queen, or in it for material things and financial support even if she works, there's no second date, They ditch her immediately.

And then I presume she goes on social media and bashes them.

@Murrmurr
The good ones are out there .. however, they need to be weeded out. Very possibly, young women who are in college/university, who are working part-time and paying their own tuition wouldn't be amongst the type that expect to be treated like royalty.

 

[Murrmurr]

@Murrmurr
The good ones are out there .. however, they need to be weeded out. Very possibly, young women who are in college/university, who are working part-time and paying their own tuition wouldn't be amongst the type the expect to be treated like royalty.

The kid that's going to community college is somewhat hopeful.

But, seriously, I was floored by the date-stories these guys told me. I feel bad for them.

 

[VaughanJB]

Exactly. It's the innocent children who suffer the most from divorce.

There are many complaints about single parent mothers getting homes under the UK benefit system. But the intent is to address the problem for the real victims - the children.

 

[Beezer]

In our 'instant gratification' society, fathers no longer feel like sticking out the marriage/ relationship after junior is born.

We need more male leaders in our society...and less boys.

 

[Lilac]

!>>>>Wrong<<<<!

There's these 3 guys, a set of twins and their older brother, who are neighbors of mine, and they come over and help me with yard work every week or so, and we shoot the breeze all the while they're here. The older one is 22, his twin bros are 20, and they live with their parents. Two of them work full time, the other has a part-time job and goes to a community college.

They all date but none of them has what we oldies call a steady girlfriend. So, thinking about this thread topic, and because they seem to be on the right path, I asked them how it's going with the ladies and if they're looking forward to getting married and starting a family.

I was pretty shocked. Here's some reasons they gave me for why it isn't going well with the ladies and they're not even thinking about starting a family, and it sounded bleak....

Impossible to find a girl who isn't teasing men on OnlyFans and then bashing them on Tik-Tok, X, YouTube, Instagram, snapchat, etc., or they don't do OnlyFans but they do the men-bashing all over social media.

Impossible to find a girl who isn't looking for a man who will bring home the bacon and cook it, too...and do his own laundry, his own shopping, the nastiest and most labor-intensive household chores and all the yardwork and home repairs...while paying all the bills.

Tough to find a girl who doesn't refer to herself as a Queen and expect to be treated as one while calling men toxic if they refer to themselves as King of the Castle, or even Head of Household.

Most girls today are looking for a man who will send her and her girl-pals on an exotic vacation at least twice a year, airfare, hotels, vacation clothes, and day spas included. For all. Except the guy who's paying for it, of course. He's not invited.

There was more, too. They all feel like young women today who hold a job believe that their money is theirs, and his money is theirs. She should get to keep what she earns, but he should buy the house and cover all expenses. And she's not saving that money; she's buying herself everything she "deserves" because she's a woman.

I'm guessing they misunderstand the concept behind the "empowerment" of women.

None of these 3 guys has ever dated a woman who would pay for dinner or even split the tab. Or even buy herself a drink, or buy him one. Including the self-proclaimed Queens and Heads of Household. These guys have all adopted this kick her to the curb guideline. Soon as a lady signals she's a queen, or in it for material things and financial support even if she works, there's no second date, They ditch her immediately.

And then I presume she goes on social media and bashes them.

@Murrmurr, that's really sad that these & other young men are being treated this way. I have no use for a man or woman who treats the opposite sex badly. I'm glad they are ditching these b!tch$ because they don't deserve a decent guy.

If these girls are putting it out on the internet for all to see, I'd think the guys should do a background check her before they ever go out.

 

[dilettante]

But, seriously, I was floored by the date-stories these guys told me. I feel bad for them.

Well you're not going to have an honest discussion about it here.

Blaming the victim is a celebrated sport, i.e.:

In our 'instant gratification' society, fathers no longer feel like sticking out the marriage/ relationship after junior is born.

We need more male leaders in our society...and less boys.

It's not about their ages, it's about the times. The stuff you wrote about in post #40 above goes on right here.

 

[January]

Right here on this forum??

I havent seen that

I dont know about the young lads Murmur knows - but plenty of young people I know with steady partners and relationships with realistic expectations of both parties.

 

[HermitHogan]

There are many complaints about single parent mothers getting homes under the UK benefit system. But the intent is to address the problem for the real victims - the children.

The problem with a system like that is: it creates incentive for poor, single women to have children. They can escape poverty by becoming a single mother. It's like a program that was set up back in the '70s, I believe, where they paid people $5,000 to quit smoking. People started smoking so they could be paid to quit.