Will we get used to trans-gender people?

Sunny

Sunny

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Maryland
I hope I'm not stepping on any toes with this topic, but it's been in the news a lot lately (mainly thanks to Caitlin). I am a staunch supporter of gay/bisexual rights in every respect. But somehow, I have problems coming to terms with trans-gender people, maybe because of the pronouns. Somehow, I can't feel comfortable using the word "she" for someone who used to be a man. And yet, thinking about the character "Lady Chablis" in the movie Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, it's hard to think of that character as being a man either. Lady Chablis is a (very funny) woman.

Certainly everybody has the right to be respected and accepted for whoever he/she is. But the language does lend itself to awkwardness. I wonder, if we just used a neutral pronoun, such as "it," for everybody, would that make the problem go away?

More controversially, is being trans-gender a normal variation on the human scale, or is it a mental aberration? There are times when I feel like the world is moving too fast for me to keep up with it!

I also feel awkward about gays using the words "husband" and "wife" for their spouses. I think those terms should be put to rest; they are ancient designations and bring to mind the agricultural world of medieval Europe. Why not just use the word "spouse" for all married people, whether gay or straight?
 

I hope public sentiment will adjust quickly. Unlike gays and lesbians, most people are not likely to know and be friends with a trans gender-person which will make it harder to adjust. What is a big big plus in their favor is that the abbreviation LGBT has come into universal usage and this links them to LG people who have rapidity become entirely accepted. I'm not sure about the origins of the abbreviation, but I could well image homosexual people not wanting to be lumped in with trans-gender....but they were very decent about it and accepted the more inclusive abbreviation and that's made a world of difference.
 
Personally I'm not entirely sure LGBT should be lumped together as you also say Josiah, simply because Transgender and Gays are not necessarily the same, and more often are not ..

I do agree however with you Sunny that it is a very awkward situation for most people to suddenly have to start addressing a person as the opposite gender when one may have known that person as a different gender for a very long time..

Is it a mental aberration?...well it would depend on how we describe it..a mental illness no I would definitely think not, ...i think in a large proportion of cases where an adult has been known to always fight against being treated as a male for example since childhood..never been comfortable being in female clothing always been upset if made to act like a boy when they were far more comfortable following female pursuits or dressing as a female..then as a lay person one can only suppose that there was literally a cross wire somewhere hormonally within the foetus.. however I know very little about it, although I have known and still do know cross dressers and Gays , none of whom wish to transition...I do believe that those who are willing to transition to the opposite gender after living a life of what they perceive as a lie for the sake of society's expectations , should be accepted for the person they really are and who they feel they really are.....but as for a title for them, well again I understand the quandary, but if we are to give them a separate title we may as well call them Eunuch, and no-one surely in their right mind would find that acceptable...so in essence IMO..we have to accept them as the gender they have become and to whit that which they have chosen to live their lives, regardless of their former gender.
 

Experts say it a mental issue and I fully agree.

If only these LGBT would shut up talking about how great their lifestyle is and stop shoving their beliefs in our faces then they might be more accepted.
 
I look on the transgender people the same as the homosexuals in that it is their lifestyle, not mine, it does not bother me or affect me in any way. It is their right to live their lifestyle as they please, this includes being addressed the way they want to be addressed....same as my right. I really don't see it as a problem or feel awkward concerning how they are addressed, JMO.
 
Actually, most "experts" no longer refer to gender identity as a "mental" issue, any more than homosexuality/lesbianism/bisexuality are "mental" issues. As long as there are individuals who perpetrate this type of retrograde thinking, then the abuse/violence/suicide/murder and mental anguish of people who do not fit the so-called "straight" norm will continue unabated. Different does not mean abnormal.
 
I don't mind sharing a public restroom with a lady/man as I keep the stall door locked anyway. I have a straight friend who dresses as a lady sometimes but I guess that is not transgender. He was a mail person for 35 years and I know, at lest on the last day before retirement, he delivered the mail as a woman.
 
I don't pay attention anymore. They can do what they want to whomever they want and IF they want. It's their affair and none of mine.

I skip that "news?" and look elsewhere for my news. Same with gays. There are much more important things going on in the world
to pique my interest.
 
I’m not personally acquainted with or related to a transgendered person. The closest I’ve come is an employee of a very large corporation I worked at 25 yrs ago – before I came on board a man transitioned to a woman, (I was told about this by the ‘office informant’ shortly after I was hired) and I used to see her in the cafeteria. From what I hear it was a huge deal and employees were talked to about sensitivity and discrimination.

It does sound odd to hear a female refer to her wife and a male refer to his husband. Can’t say it bothers me, though.

Would I mind having a neighbor who is transgendered? No. Would I go to a transgendered doctor or dentist? Yes.

Not sure who "we" is supposed to represent. :confused:

However, (and don’t take this the wrong way, Sunny) 50 yrs ago this thread could be titled “Will we get used to inter-racial couples? bi-racial children?” Even more recently it could be "Will we get used to gay people?" My response would be something along the lines of “I don't think other people "getting used" to it is the issue - that's their problem. You don’t have much choice. Accept it, or move to a planet where things are more to your liking and comfort level.”
 
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Interesting reply, applecruncher. I agree with part of what you said, and I also think you misunderstand my point of view.

My own difficulty mainly comes from the use of pronouns. For instance, if I read a letter to an advice columnist referring to "my husband," and don't realize until all the way at the end that the writer is a man, I feel disoriented and confused, and have to reimagine the whole scenario. This is why I think the use of "spouse" for all married couples, and "partner" for those who are unmarried, would be more universal and less confusing. "Husband" and "wife" have definite connotations as to the gender of the speaker.

In my original question, "we" represents the 99.9999% of us who are not trans-gender.

As to the final part of your answer, I don't think this is in any way comparable to the civil rights of gay people, or the rights of bi-racial couples. The only thing I can compare with surgically altering one's gender is the attempt to physically alter one's race. Obviously, people have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. But some things clearly show a tragic kind of self-hatred.

Let me be clear; as a good liberal, I defend to the death anyone's right to do pretty much anything with him/herself. But that doesn't mean I have to be personally comfortable with all decisions people make. Just as they have the right to make their decisions, I also have the right to my own feelings about their decisions. If I ever knowingly met a trans-gender person, I would extend to them the same courtesy and kindness as
I would anyone else. My thoughts about it would remain private.

This is a interesting subject, and I'd like to see more opinions on it.
 
Once the transformation is complete, only those close having been aware of the individual's "change", new acquaintances and other's interactions will not be aware, am I right? Thus, in a new "life-setting", no one knows anything except the person himself/herself. I do not think they advertise, do they? imp
 
"I defend to the death anyone's right to do pretty much anything with him/herself"

Do you include the right to ingest or use "forbidden" substances in your stand? Mutilation, etc.? Just curious how far we are willing go in "acceptance". imp
 
If someone has had the courage to make such a statement in their life I'm happy to use the pronoun of their choice. Being gay or transgender is not compulsory it's just the way people are so I say live and let live.
 
Sunny, I think it may need a little getting used to for some people, I already accepted it years ago once I knew it was happening. With today's modern surgical procedures, we're seeing things we have never seen before in our lives over the past decades. I never personally knew a trans-gendered person, but if I did I would have a much better understanding of their feelings about themselves and the process they're going through, I'm sure it's ongoing.

I've had a few gay friends over the years, lovely people, though I never knew of any who lived as husband and wife. Those terms don't bother me, as even in a lesbian relationship, it's obvious that one takes a more feminine role over the other, sounds very natural to me. I'm already used to trans-gender people just from exposure in the media, I must be pretty used to it, because I have no interest in watching everything Cait does, I just wish her the best, what she did must have been very difficult and her life will never be easy, IMO.
 
Sunny, thanks for your response and clarification.

(Not backpedaling, but) I can think of legal things people do that I’m not comfortable with and don’t “accept”, per se, but I’m not going to find another planet. :D (I'm not going to specify what those things are at the risk of derailing the thread.)
 
I think some people will get used to them and some probably not, depends on whether or not we meet them -- usually older people are the last to adjust to changes as they are no longer in the workplace and are not attending the same public events younger people do, not as active and out and about, so have less opportunity to be exposed to changes. I have never met a transgendered person that I know of and may never, but I'm sure it wouldn't matter to me one way or another.
 
Misty said:
No matter how much the transgendered person changes his/her outward appearance, the DNA stays the same, so far.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, Misty. The biological underpinnings of a "sense" of maleness or femaleness that trans-gender people experience so profoundly does not seem to be related to the presence or absence of a y chromosome. My conjecture is that science will eventually identify some in-utero developmental occurrence that explains the phenomena.
 
imp said:
"I defend to the death anyone's right to do pretty much anything with him/herself"

Do you include the right to ingest or use "forbidden" substances in your stand? Mutilation, etc.? Just curious how far we are willing go in "acceptance". imp
Click to expand...

Yes, of course people have the right to ingest anything they want, or mutilate themselves if they wish to. There again, I have an equal right to my opinion of what they are doing, but I do not have the right to stop them, or even to inflict
my opinions on them.

In general, my motto is: One person's rights end where the next person's foot begins.

I think an interesting part of this issue is sexual orientation vs. trans-gendered people. Most trans-genders (is there an official name?) say they are not gay. Speculating on what that means is enough to make your head spin. What if a person is born male but transgenders into female but says "she" is gay and wants to have sex with other women, although "she" has male body parts? Is that kind of like a double negative?

But I did read somewhere that some gays resent the fact that the "trans" group has latched onto the gay rights movement and formed a combined group, GLTB. We even have a GLTB club here in my retirement community, so people are coming out all over the place regardless of age. The two groups should probably not be lumped together, as they are very different things. The whole thing does get pretty complicated. I personally am a fervent supporter of gay rights, and I do know and like a number of gay people. But (not wanting to run this into the ground) I find that the whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable.
 
Jackie22 said:
I look on the transgender people the same as the homosexuals in that it is their lifestyle, not mine, it does not bother me or affect me in any way. It is their right to live their lifestyle as they please, this includes being addressed the way they want to be addressed....same as my right. I really don't see it as a problem or feel awkward concerning how they are addressed, JMO.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
Sunny said:
Interesting reply, applecruncher. I agree with part of what you said, and I also think you misunderstand my point of view.

My own difficulty mainly comes from the use of pronouns. For instance, if I read a letter to an advice columnist referring to "my husband," and don't realize until all the way at the end that the writer is a man, I feel disoriented and confused, and have to reimagine the whole scenario. This is why I think the use of "spouse" for all married couples, and "partner" for those who are unmarried, would be more universal and less confusing. "Husband" and "wife" have definite connotations as to the gender of the speaker.

In my original question, "we" represents the 99.9999% of us who are not trans-gender.

As to the final part of your answer, I don't think this is in any way comparable to the civil rights of gay people, or the rights of bi-racial couples. The only thing I can compare with surgically altering one's gender is the attempt to physically alter one's race. Obviously, people have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. But some things clearly show a tragic kind of self-hatred.

Let me be clear; as a good liberal, I defend to the death anyone's right to do pretty much anything with him/herself. But that doesn't mean I have to be personally comfortable with all decisions people make. Just as they have the right to make their decisions, I also have the right to my own feelings about their decisions. If I ever knowingly met a trans-gender person, I would extend to them the same courtesy and kindness as
I would anyone else. My thoughts about it would remain private.

This is a interesting subject, and I'd like to see more opinions on it.
Click to expand...

I think we're a transitional generation in lots of ways. The things that used to be accepted as societal standards are passing away and we lived with them, got used to them and now we're being asked to change and change is always hard. But I think maybe the next generation or maybe the one immediately following that won't even give it a thought because that's all they've known.

I completely agree that it's everyones right to choose their own path in life and it might not be the same as mine and I'm fine with that. And if there's anything about that life path that makes me feel weird, I make a point of not thinking about it. It's just not my business. Unless of course hurt is being caused by someone to someone and that's just not okay.
 
I'm pretty much the same way. Even though I may find people's choices weird.. and making me uncomfortable, I shrug my shoulders and mind my own business... that is, like you, provided that nothing they are doing is harmful to other people or animals..
 
Josiah said:
You're absolutely right, Misty. The biological underpinnings of a "sense" of maleness or femaleness that trans-gender people experience so profoundly does not seem to be related to the presence or absence of a y chromosome. My conjecture is that science will eventually identify some in-utero developmental occurrence that explains the phenomena.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts, Josiah :) ..it will be interesting how science will interpret the tendency of some to try to change their genders.
 

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