Wills, estranged adopted child...

[Aneeda72]

When my father died my parents had been divorced for a while and he had remarried twice and had 6 more children. . I doubt he had anything to leave, but I sure didn’t get anything and didn’t want anything from him.

When my step-father died, he and my mother were divorced. He had no children of his own, claimed to love us dearly, and we, my brother and I, were left out of his will as he left everything to his niece which he hooked up with later in life.

My mother has very little money, lives in government housing, and before she married my step father I was told I was no longer welcome to live her. I was 17. Even if she left me something I wouldn’t take it, but I was relieved to know I didn’t have to make such a choice. She’s left everything to my brother. . He is welcome to it.

My husbands mother disowned him right before she died. Pressured to do so by a greedy sibling. We did not contest the will. I have always felt if someone does not rejoice in giving me something, than let the greedy others have it.

My opinion is if it would make you happy to leave an adopted child something then do so. I am sure, she expects nothing as I expected nothing from my fathers or other family members as they had given me nothing in life but pain anyway. Seems it is much the same for your adopted daughter, and I agree with @Pepper opinion. But, then, maybe I am wrong.

 

[Nathan]

I am in the same boat. After my present wife died, I went to a lawyer and got a new will done. I have left money to 2 of my kids but nothing to #3. My thinking is why leave money to someone who has ignored you for 3 decades while the other 2 have not. The lawyer agreed because she said, "it's your money." I say, why reward the evil or perhaps the thoughless?

Packerjohn, you sound like you are exactly in the same boat- indeed why reward the evil or thoughtless...

I recently heard that my ex had a 3rd heat attack, I hadn't heard about the previous two. I spoke to my son, he clarified that these 'heart attacks' were false alarms(pain in arm or torso) and not for real. He did go on to mention that his mom said she has spinal stenosis, which does sound legitimate. I thought of inviting her to join our senior fitness classes, which would likely help. But then I had to come back to reality and remind myself that she has only sought to do me harm in the past, and there is no indication that she has changed in any way.

 

[Aneeda72]

Packerjohn, you sound like you are exactly in the same boat- indeed why reward the evil or thoughtless...

I recently heard that my ex had a 3rd heat attack, I hadn't heard about the previous two. I spoke to my son, he clarified that these 'heart attacks' were false alarms(pain in arm or torso) and not for real. He did go on to mention that his mom said she has spinal stenosis, which does sound legitimate. I thought of inviting her to join our senior fitness classes, which would likely help. But then I had to come back to reality and remind myself that she has only sought to do me harm in the past, and there is no indication that she has changed in any way.

It’s a good thing Jesus Christ said treat others as they have treated you, or, wait, did he say turn the other cheek? . It’s so confusing, being Christian. I suppose I am wrong to treat my mother decently. Money at Christmas and birthdays. Accept her phone calls, listen to her complaints, pretend I care.

I should beat that 96 year old bat of a woman with a leather strap till she has bleeding welts on her back and butt, and then force her into a tub of scalding water until the rest of her turns beet red and the water cools; like she did me. Cause when I turned the other cheek, as a child, she broke my nose. Oh, wait.

What would Jesus do? After all his father, GOD, arranged to have him killed, and Jesus, silly boy, forgave his killers and forgave the world. Which path should I follow? Which path should we all follow? It is all so confusing.

 

[Nathan]

@Aneeda72, you're quite right, Christianity does teach forgiveness, but forgiveness does not require that you continue to have a relationship and provide niceties.

 

[Aneeda72]

@Aneeda72, you're quite right, Christianity does teach forgiveness, but forgiveness does not require that you continue to have a relationship and provide niceties.

I don’t know, truely I don’t. I know I am supposed to HONOR my mother and father even though they treated me horribly. I know that while one of my adopted granddaughters is a complete loser, by anyone standards, by daughter took her back time after time.

I know when that granddaughter abandoned her baby at my daughters house, my daughter sold her car, worked two jobs, hired an attorney, a private investigator, and a private guardian ad liam for the child, found both missing parents, got the papers signed, and at the age of 50 she, and her husband, have a two year old adopted daughter to raise.

You either step up or you don‘t.

As for my other adopted granddaughter, both girls were adopted when they were 15 years old, she is homeless and a drug addict. My daughter has offered to help her get services. The girl has refused. My daughter has never gotten anything from those two but grief. But she is their mother, forever.

I have two disabled adoptive children that live in group homes now, and they do not have the means to visit me. I visit them. They have never given me a dime and can offer me nothing but love. I will care for them till I die. I will make sure they have what they need till I die. I am 74.

They owe me nothing, I owe them everything. I am not criticizing you. After all, Jesus was only worth a bit of silver, so we are worth so much less. But, it always comes down to money for some people. Since I have no money, , I am freed of the worry of it. Perhaps that is God’s greatest gift to me.

 

[mellowyellow]

I am in the same boat. After my present wife died, I went to a lawyer and got a new will done. I have left money to 2 of my kids but nothing to #3. My thinking is why leave money to someone who has ignored you for 3 decades while the other 2 have not. The lawyer agreed because she said, "it's your money." I say, why reward the evil or perhaps the thoughless?

Your situation is exactly like the case here in Australia, the child who was left out challenged and won a share and the will was water-tight, ask your solicitor, he will tell you it happens all the time.

 

[Packerjohn]

Your situation is exactly like the case here in Australia, the child who was left out challenged and won a share and the will was water-tight, ask your solicitor, he will tell you it happens all the time.

I suppose the only solution is to either spread the money out to many people, perhaps leave the bad "kid" coffee money or perhaps the best deal is to blow the money when you are still living. Can't understand why anyone wants to leave a big lump of cash to the kids. It tends to spoil them in most cases.

 

[Butterfly]

[Apologies in advance for the lengthy post]
When I got married to my ex(1978) I adopted her 2-1/2 yr. old daughter, and raised her as my own.
When my ex and I divorced, had a very bitter parting, she did her best to turn my kids(that we had together) against me,
as well as the adopted daughter.
My daughter and son stayed connected with me, the adopted daughter apparently made a statement to her mother
that she wanted nothing to do with me. O.K., blood's thicker than water as they say, so that's that.
Over the ensuing years the adopted daughter and I had occasion to meet(family events).
She was civil, we would talk a bit but not about 'ancient history'; upon her departure in each case there was no provisions for further contact.
She and I are "friends" on Facebook, have exchanged a couple "happy birthday" messages, but the distance is still there.

When I get my Will prepared I'm thinking that she(estranged adopted daughter) really should not be included as heir to any property or monies.
I do not feel it would be fair either to my daughter & son, nor to my present wife's kids(my step-children).

I invite you thoughts & comments on this matter.

If you are going to leave the adopted daughter (whom the law sees as having exactly the same rights as natural children) nothing or only a token amount,you can do so in most jurisdictions, but the will must be carefully crafted and have specific "magic language" to make it valid. IMHO this isn't something you should attempt yourself, but you should consult an attorney who knows what he is doing in this area of the law to be sure it is done correctly or it might be set aside.

States have different laws regarding wills and estates, so what works in one state won't necessarily work in another, and I personally wouldn't trust one of those fill-in-the-blanks will websites either.

 

[mellowyellow]

I suppose the only solution is to either spread the money out to many people, perhaps leave the bad "kid" coffee money or perhaps the best deal is to blow the money when you are still living. Can't understand why anyone wants to leave a big lump of cash to the kids. It tends to spoil them in most cases.

It's a mine field John, we have ads running on tv and radio that say 'Have you been left out of a will? Call us, no win, no fee.'
Greedy relations jump at the chance to cash in.

 

[Packerjohn]

It's a mine field John, we have ads running on tv and radio that say 'Have you been left out of a will? Call us, no win, no fee.'
Greedy relations jump at the chance to cash in.

Yes, greedy relatives but also very, very greedy lawyers. I remember the winters I spent in Port Isabel, Texas. One of the reasons that I did not like going on the thread mill because right in front was this TV. There seemed to be no shortage of aids from law firms asking, "Have You Been Injured?" I found it amusing since I'm from Canada & at that time I never saw such an add in Canada. It seemed to me that in the US everyone was suing everyone else for everything. I hope I'm wrong on this. Ditto: when it comes to drug advertising. All the time, "See Your Doctor." I don't see that anymore since I cut the cable over 18 years ago. To me, it's about the same kind of brain washing that we used to accuse the communists of doing but we just changed the name to "free enterprise". It sounds a lot better. I wonder what the point of making a will is if everyone is going to fight over it. I really think that we should live well ("high of the hog") while we are still breathing. Amen to that!

 

[Angelina]

My feelings about wills are that it's your money and you should leave it to who or whomever you want. The possibility that they might "get mad," etc., shouldn't enter into it. It's your last time to exercise your preference, it's your money, and it should go to your choice. If an adult child ignored me for decades and the others didn't, of course they would receive nothing (the estranged one). JMO

 

[OneEyedDiva]

Nathan, I don't think your post was too long at all. I agree with your decision.

 

[Sunny]

Your statement that "blood's thicker than water" makes me wonder. She was a baby when you adopted her, so from her point of view, you are her Dad. If she had been, say, a teenager or an adult, I might agree about that comment, but it means nothing when talking about a baby or a toddler. It does sound like you are harboring some resentment against this daughter, who is now in her 40's. Are you sure you aren't reacting to the "bitter parting" by putting mother and daughter in the same boat?

OTOH, I have no idea why she told her mother she wanted nothing to do with you. It's hard to have an opinion when we know only part of the story. Only you know what really happened, and what caused the rift with the daughter.

From the little bit I know about this, my inclination would be to treat her the same as your other children. Otherwise, you are punishing her for - what? Being a little on the cool side? Should our children be rewarded only when they act emotionally warm to us, otherwise they are nothing?

But as I said, I have a feeling there's a lot more to the story than we know, so it's very hard to have an opinion.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

Nathan, you can leave her out of your Will, however, unless you make an iron clad Will, your other beneficiaries will find she can contest your Will and be granted part of your estate anyway.

An "adopted" child has the same legal rights as your own children. In the eyes of the law, she is entitled to the same rights as your own children.

and @Jules My attorney put a clause in my will that states anyone who contests it will get nothing. I actually don't feel it's necessary but one never knows. I have one child and he has 5 children. My late husband's children were fully grown when we got married. Never forged a close relationship with any of them so I doubt they'd expect to be included in my will.

 

[Nathan]

Your statement that "blood's thicker than water" makes me wonder. She was a baby when you adopted her, so from her point of view, you are her Dad. If she had been, say, a teenager or an adult, I might agree about that comment, but it means nothing when talking about a baby or a toddler. It does sound like you are harboring some resentment against this daughter, who is now in her 40's. Are you sure you aren't reacting to the "bitter parting" by putting mother and daughter in the same boat?

The "blood's thicker than water" statement refers to the daughter choosing to side with her mother, a direct 'blood' relative, rather than remaining neutral in the divorce.
Just so you know: I adopted her when she was 2-1/2 yr.s old, I loved her and raised her as my own....and, I still love her to this day.
Also, I do not harbor any bitterness towards her...in the least. As for her mother(my ex): the divorce was almost 30 years ago, I'm way past being in an emotional state over it.

As I alluded to earlier, forgiveness is a healing move, but it doesn't mean that you have to forget what a person did.

From the little bit I know about this, my inclination would be to treat her the same as your other children. Otherwise, you are punishing her for - what?

"Punishment" does not enter into the equation, and is not in my heart in the least. As others have mentioned: why reward someone who has chosen to ignore you?

 

[Pecos]

My youngest brother Jim who passed a couple of months ago was completely estranged from his biological two sons for over 35 years. Jim instructed his lawyer to write a will leaving his estate to the three people who he loved and that he knew loved him. That included our middle brother Hal, Jim's step-son Mike, and myself. Along with a copy of the will, I got a note telling me that Jim wanted my brother Hal and I to enjoy our retirements and to use his assets to that end.

Combining that thought with the realization that I will never see him again leads me to a complex mix of humbling emotions.

The process of "discovery" is ongoing, and while he was not wealthy, it is not a trivial amount either. I will do what he asked of me and always remember his graciousness.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

One of the things I don't like about wills, is if I were to die during the night, how does anybody know I have a will? Yeah, there's a copy ( I think) at my attorney's office, and the one in my desk, my brother knows. But say me & my brother get run over by a truck? How does anybody know I made a will?

 

[Nathan]

One of the things I don't like about wills, is if I were to die during the night, how does anybody know I have a will? Yeah, there's a copy ( I think) at my attorney's office, and the one in my desk, my brother knows. But say me & my brother get run over by a truck? How does anybody know I made a will?

I have thought about that. Aren't wills recorded, like some other legal documents? Any relatives or potential beneficiaries would certainly be required to point to a will, if they were trying to take ownership or control of the deceased's financial accounts, or real property.

 

[StarSong]

Leave her $1.00 in the will so she cannot say you did not leave her anything. Do what you want to with the rest.

This is crueler than leaving her nothing and the ugly statement it makes would pain her for the rest of her life.

I have mixed feelings about this. My brother had 3 biological children but when he passed away he left everything to his daughter and cut out his 2 sons. He had good sons that were always good to him. It seems like your exwife turned your adopted daughter against you by telling her lies about you. IMO I would leave her something in the will.

I agree.

If you cut your step daughter out of the will that confirms you are a SOB to her. So how do you want to be remembered? And does it matter to you what she thinks? Have you thought of giving a token amount to her, instead of cutting her off? It's your money, and it's your call.

Exactly. It will reinforce her inner belief that you never really loved her.

My opinion - leave your other children the lion's share of your assets, but leave this daughter a nice stipend or small percentage of your assets. You could even say in the document, although my daughter, XYZ, and I were not close during her adulthood, I always loved her and wanted the best for her. I leave her the bequest of $XXXX as a token of that affection.

Final thought: hire a GOOD attorney that specializes in estates.
Because my mother's will and trust were drawn up by an excellent attorney, her wishes were ironclad (one of her children was disinherited - long, sad story) and went unchallenged.

Legal zoom, internet forms, attorney friends whose specialties lie in other areas of the law, and so forth, are not the way to go if you want your wishes to go unchallenged.

 

[Nathan]

When I get my Will prepared I'm thinking that she(estranged adopted daughter) really should not be included as heir to any property or monies.
I do not feel it would be fair either to my daughter & son, nor to my present wife's kids(my step-children).

Update:
I've given this matter much thought, thank you all for your responses. I am simply going to inform the attorney that prepares my will of the estranges adopted daughter, and follow his/her advice.
Evidently she does not hold me in her heart, so my not including her as an heir isn't going to hurt my "legacy" with her.

 

[Nathan]

My opinion - leave your other children the lion's share of your assets, but leave this daughter a nice stipend or small percentage of your assets. You could even say in the document, although my daughter, XYZ, and I were not close during her adulthood, I always loved her and wanted the best for her. I leave her the bequest of $XXXX as a token of that affection.

@StarSong , I just finished posting when your latest reply showed up. I like your idea, it feels like a good fit!

 

[StarSong]

@StarSong , I just finished posting when your latest reply showed up. I like your idea, it feels like a good fit!

So happy to be able to help. These can be difficult waters to navigate.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

I have thought about that. Aren't wills recorded, like some other legal documents? Any relatives or potential beneficiaries would certainly be required to point to a will, if they were trying to take ownership or control of the deceased's financial accounts, or real property.

Nathan, if you're in PA., they are not recorded anywhere. When I asked my attorney about this, he said "Well, your brother knows about your will".

 

[Nathan]

It looks like here in California there would only be accessible court records if the matter went through probate. If a relative of the deceased had a copy of the will, they are not required to hand over a copy to any potential heirs. An interested party could file a petition for a court order, and then the whole litigation process begins.

About contesting a will: Huge undertaking, would only be worth doing for an estate with substantial assets.
A will can be contested in a California probate proceeding on the grounds of:
Lack of proper execution formalities;
Lack of testamentary capacity
Undue influence
Fraud
Duress
Mistake
Revocation

Contesting a will in California
Consumers Reports-Contesting a will

 

[Jules]

It looks like here in California there would only be accessible court records if the matter went through probate. If a relative of the deceased had a copy of the will, they are not required to hand over a copy to any potential heirs. An interested party could file a petition for a court order, and then the whole litigation process begins.

Wow. You really need to know who holds your legal will, the last one signed. If that person became senile or angry or whatever, this could be a problem. Or if your family doesn’t know who has it, another mess.

We have notes that explain there is a copy of our wills in our safe deposit box. The lawyer holds the originals and they’re registered with the BC government.

In Ontario, I had to argue with the my mother’s lawyer that I should have a photo copy of the signed will. I had a copy of the unsigned one. She didn’t have it registered with the government and the lawyer just held it in his safe. Don’t know how deep that was buried as the original lawyer had retired many years prior and another lawyer took over. Thankfully the building never burned down.