Would you pay for this? Why we need reparations for Black Americans.

C'est Moi said:
No one living was a slave. No one living owned a slave. Reparations for what? There are so many failed social programs already; why burden people with this crap? If you want a good life, work for it... like I did.
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We need a lot more people with your attitude to stand up and speak your mind. Slavery was wrong, we admit that, but it was our ancestors not us who were responsible. We cannot keep apologising. We also must not keep giving in to unreasonable demands. Time to put the past behind us and move on.
 

rgp said:
"I don't support reparations, but do support programs to help people pull themselves out of poverty "

We already have such programs in place......It's called get a job,and work at it.
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Dunno if you've worked with kids from extreme poverty; I have. Ones that were motivated enough to attend community college. Differences in cultural speech patterns among the poor set black kids at a disadvantage. White kids may need grammatical corrections to things "I seen" "ain't" etc, but black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery. Things like that are a strike against getting a job and moving up.

One program that does excellent work is State Land Grand University Cooperative Extension Services' Workforce Development.
 

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AnnieA said:
Dunno if you've worked with kids from extreme poverty; I have. Ones that were motivated enough to attend community college. Differences in cultural speech patterns among the poor set black kids at a disadvantage. White kids may need grammatical corrections to things "I seen" "ain't" etc, but black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery. Things like that are a strike against getting a job and moving up.

One program that does excellent work is State Land Grand University Cooperative Extension Services' Workforce Development.
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So ...... we should just give them money ? Continue to enable them ?

"black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery. "

If they haven't learned in 155 years ? ......... Being poor is not the problem. Being ignorant is the problem. Now if we have a proven segment of our population that is truly that ignorant ,and has a certified lack of ability to learn ......... then yes they need some help. But you know damn well that the system will be gamed by others for personal gain. Be damn careful how this "reparation" is dealt with, and distributed .

Just a note ............ I believe that some of this language barrier ......... is by choice ? Yes a hard point to prove..........and just my opinion.
 
Rosemarie said:
We need a lot more people with your attitude to stand up and speak your mind. Slavery was wrong, we admit that, but it was our ancestors not us who were responsible. We cannot keep apologising. We also must not keep giving in to unreasonable demands. Time to put the past behind us and move on.
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I agree.
 
sehr alt said:
Reparations is a bad idea. Being the descendant of both slaves and slave owners, how do we deal with people like Michelle Obama, who is typical of perhaps hundreds of thousands of people ? No reparations !
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Michelle Obama is typical of millions of people actually, being a typical person. What does your reference to her have to do with the reparations topic?
 
rgp said:
So ...... we should just give them money ? Continue to enable them ?

"black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery. "

If they haven't learned in 155 years ? ......... Being poor is not the problem. Being ignorant is the problem. Now if we have a proven segment of our population that is truly that ignorant ,and has a certified lack of ability to learn ......... then yes they need some help. But you know damn well that the system will be gamed by others for personal gain. Be damn careful how this "reparation" is dealt with, and distributed .

Just a note ............ I believe that some of this language barrier ......... is by choice ? Yes a hard point to prove..........and just my opinion.
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I don't know how you took my reference to Workforce Development and made it into "just give them money" "continue to enable them" ...I'd think the title of the program clearly implies getting people to work. And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations.

As for the language issues ... We're only 50+ years out from JimCrow in the South. Enforced segregation perpetuated slavery speech patterns; condensed areas of poverty like ghettos do the same today. The generation of kids who didn't grow up under Jim Crow are my generation. Some black people in that time got higher education through schools like Tougaloo that I mentioned above or by going out of the South. But not the majority by far.

That also doesn't mean that standard patterns of speech weren't taught in black communities through the years. They were in a lot of instances, and are in most instances now, but I'm talking about kids who due to life circumstances aren't exposed to correct speech.
 
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soon as you give them money, they will just demand something else. it will never be enough to satisfy them. I think Larry said that in his video. No one alive today is responsible for what people did 100 years ago.
 
Knight said:
That makes sense. Combine that with the amount of people that immigrated to America both legally & illegally that have started a business or work hard to provide for themselves & their families. They are successful & not looking for something free.
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Many wouldn’t accept it if offered, they’re proud of their struggles.
 
AnnieA said:
I don't know how you took my reference to Workforce Development and made it into "just give them money" "continue to enable them" ...I'd think the title of the program clearly implies getting people to work. And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations.

As for the language issues ... We're only 50+ years out from JimCrow in the South. Enforced segregation perpetuated slavery speech patterns; condensed areas of poverty like ghettos do the same today. The generation of kids who didn't grow up under Jim Crow are my generation. Some black people in that time got higher education through schools like Tougaloo that I mentioned above or by going out of the South. But not the majority by far.

That also doesn't mean that standard patterns of speech weren't taught in black communities through the years. They were in a lot of instances, and are in most instances now, but I'm talking about kids who due to life circumstances aren't exposed to correct speech.
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"I don't know how you took my reference to Workforce Development and made it into "just give them money" "continue to enable them" ...I'd think the title of the program clearly implies getting people to work. And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations."


I didn't, I was just asking your opinion .. note the question mark.

"And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations."

No I got it ...... I guess my question, was rhetorical ? One of those ya just ask.

I suppose I could have asked it ? In a different manner...........My bad.
 
Aunt Bea said:
IMO reparation is a divisive idea.

I believe that all Americans should have an opportunity to work and achieve the American Dream.

If Americans of any race need a hand up to get an education or to learn a trade we should do what we can to help with that in a way that is meaningful to the individual.

Some folks may need a job or work-study program to help support themselves or even a more structured program like Job Core to help them get a start.

Another option available to most young people is a period of military/national service that provides many benefits to help with education and training.

The path to the American Dream may be bumpy but it still exists if you are willing to work at it.
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And that's the problem now. If you work hard and achieve and exceed the American Dream, you are penalized! I do good and I get penalized? Don't get me wrong, big box/coorperations should some how be taxed differently than the American Joe. Just because I make a bit more than my neighbor, after many years and hard work, I should now be penalized for reaching the American Dream?
 
KimIn Wis said:
And that's the problem now. If you work hard and achieve and exceed the American Dream, you are penalized! I do good and I get penalized? Don't get me wrong, big box/coorperations should some how be taxed differently than the American Joe. Just because I make a bit more than my neighbor, after many years and hard work, I should now be penalized for reaching the American Dream?
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So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?

There are many thousands of people in this country who probably feel like Sisyphus, condemned to spend eternity rolling a huge boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down again each time. Why are they "condemned" this way? Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have?

Maybe it's easier said than done when people are still overcoming the poison of slavery, racism, contempt, lynching, unequal treatment by the law, living in squalid surroundings and going to inferior schools, trying to raise their children in the midst of crime and temptation. Yes, lots of the Black people among us have risen above all that. And not all had to get over poverty. But many are stuck in dismal circumstances, a heritage of their ancestors being enslaved.

Have you seen the movie "The Help?" That sums it up better than anything I can say.

I think, as a White person, that we owe them a little bit of a hand up, just out of common decency.
 
Sunny said:
So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?

There are many thousands of people in this country who probably feel like Sisyphus, condemned to spend eternity rolling a huge boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down again each time. Why are they "condemned" this way? Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have?

Maybe it's easier said than done when people are still overcoming the poison of slavery, racism, contempt, lynching, unequal treatment by the law, living in squalid surroundings and going to inferior schools, trying to raise their children in the midst of crime and temptation. Yes, lots of the Black people among us have risen above all that. And not all had to get over poverty. But many are stuck in dismal circumstances, a heritage of their ancestors being enslaved.

Have you seen the movie "The Help?" That sums it up better than anything I can say.

I think, as a White person, that we owe them a little bit of a hand up, just out of common decency.
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Exactly what do you think has been happening since the days of LBJ in the '60's?? One failed program after another to "give a hand up." It has been ineffective until now and will continue to be so. Good grief. I am white, I am decent, and I work hard. I don't "owe" anyone a damn thing.
 
Sunny said:
So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?

There are many thousands of people in this country who probably feel like Sisyphus, condemned to spend eternity rolling a huge boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down again each time. Why are they "condemned" this way? Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have?

Maybe it's easier said than done when people are still overcoming the poison of slavery, racism, contempt, lynching, unequal treatment by the law, living in squalid surroundings and going to inferior schools, trying to raise their children in the midst of crime and temptation. Yes, lots of the Black people among us have risen above all that. And not all had to get over poverty. But many are stuck in dismal circumstances, a heritage of their ancestors being enslaved.

Have you seen the movie "The Help?" That sums it up better than anything I can say.

I think, as a White person, that we owe them a little bit of a hand up, just out of common decency.
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But how many generations need to pass (I mean in time, not dying) before people's "circumstances" do include at least some elements of personal choice?
 
"But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home? "

I think he/she needs to look at why they are still struggling, perhaps it is their spending/living habits?

"And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home? "

I believe he/she needs to encourage better behavior among & within their own community, then the air of suspicion won't follow them. They , as a group , community, race ..... created the suspicion through their own acts. Only they can remove it.

Slavery has been gone for 155 years ....... playing the race card has become a very tiresome , old excuse.

"slavery, racism, contempt, lynching, unequal treatment by the law, "

Again, 155 years ! ........... get over it. Not one person alive today was a slave nor a slave owner.

"But many are stuck in dismal circumstances, a heritage of their ancestors being enslaved. "

The race/slave card again ...... They need to really put it behind them, how many years are these folks going to identify as slave descendants ? When are they going to create their own legacy ? Put slavery behind themselves......clinging to it certainly has done nothing positive for them. If they continue to think that the next generation will feel more sorry for them, all they are going meet is resistance .

" Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have? "

That has been my question for my entire adult life.
 
Sunny said:
Have you seen the movie "The Help?" That sums it up better than anything I can say.
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Did you read the book? It's much better than the movie.

Dispatches from Pluto is a must read for understanding present day rural challenges. The section on education is heartbreakingly honest and I think details problems in majority black under-performing schools in cities as well. But regardless of why the schools are failing, it's not the fault of the kids in them who start life far below a level playing field.

.
 
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Sunny said:
So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?
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Cut the rest in order to address the beginning paragraph.

You attribute working just as hard but still struggling to the color of his skin why? As a neighbor of kim's wouldn't that indicate a higher standard of living. Are you saying kim is racist and suspicious of her neighbor?
 
OK, maybe rather than the word "neighbor," I should have said "another person living at the opposite end of town." Would that make better sense to you?
 

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