So agree, Win...too bad we can't legislate "stupidity control". As I remember it, she was "bonding" with an already deeply disturbed son to try to get back at the father. So often parents use the kids as "weapons".
Up to 18 people shot at Walmart El Paso Texas
- Thread starter hollydolly
- Start date
Camper..correction " triple narcs perscriptions/ mind altering drugs."
Camper6
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northwestern Ontario Canada
I'm not sure if that is the answer to the problem.
Couldn't hurt much though...of course you would need to ban "weed" and booze" too...lol.
I doubt it will happen. Too much profit involved. Such drugs are prescribed like Skittles.
"Your kid's bored in school? Take these."
"He's unhappy? Take these.
"He doesn't play with other kids? He's a loner? Take these."
"He's daydreaming in class? Take these."
"He's not paying attention? Take these."
And most parents do whatever professionals (with letters (MD or PhD after their names) tell them to do; programmed robots with no mind of their own.
Many doctors make so much in drug-company perks, they don't even practice any more - they just write Rx's.
I broke it off with several women because they were bat-poop nutty. After the 4th, I started learning about anti-depressive meds & I found out later they were all on them. Anger issues, bad tempers, paranoia, constant accusations of cheating, the whole bit. I told one of them, "Ya know, whatever you're taking, it ain't helping."
Win...you are so right, and schools get money shelled out to them to have nurses administer the meds. Ask a teacher if he or she has ever seen the kids lined up outside the nurse's door to get they're mid day meds.
Some parents just want "magic bullets" and anything to keep the kid settled, quiet, busy and entertained.
Whatever happened to corporal punishment? Very sad what we've come to - talk about child abuses.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Liberty and Win, until you've walk a mile in the shoes of a parent whose child has suffered with serious PTSD, ADHD, or clinical depression, you have no right or grounds to so callously and cavalierly judge those who've had to make these incredibly difficult choices for our children.
Most parents don't run to prescription meds for their kids. Quite the opposite. It's the last place they go, and only when all other avenues have failed them.
Most parents don't run to prescription meds for their kids. Quite the opposite. It's the last place they go, and only when all other avenues have failed them.
Liberty, your note managed to have more misunderstandings and false information, bad advice, and even one spelling mistake, crammed into a small space than anything I have ever seen on this forum.
And BTW, back in the mid-20th century, I went to school and then taught school in New Jersey. They had a civilized law, even then, that no teacher was allowed to lay a hand on any child as punishment. (Not in the public schools, anyway, which were excellent. At least we learned how to spell "their.") Any teacher inflicting corporal punishment would have been fired on the spot.
You actually believe that the schools are pushing unneeded meds on kids so they can collect fees? And beating kids is the solution to dealing with autistic or seriously disturbed kids? Good God.
And BTW, back in the mid-20th century, I went to school and then taught school in New Jersey. They had a civilized law, even then, that no teacher was allowed to lay a hand on any child as punishment. (Not in the public schools, anyway, which were excellent. At least we learned how to spell "their.") Any teacher inflicting corporal punishment would have been fired on the spot.
You actually believe that the schools are pushing unneeded meds on kids so they can collect fees? And beating kids is the solution to dealing with autistic or seriously disturbed kids? Good God.
That's not what I meant as a blanket statement. Sorry I spelled a word wrong, but I do think we need more attentive parents to their children's true needs. I've known parents of special needs children that were wonderful to them. Would that in general we could have more patience with our children of this generation. Someone has to help these children. Someone has to have the authority to actually "care" about them and help them. That's all I meant. Sorry if I ruffled your "Sunny" feathers...lol. https://www.howtolearn.com/2011/07/adhd-diagnosis-is-worth-money-to-schools/
DaveA
Senior Member
- Location
- Coastal Massachusetts, USA
Now that we realize (from the NRA and their supporters)that guns aren't even a consideration in bringing about these killings, then we can again look towards Australia for a solution as they seem free of this problem. First, we must assume that very few of their people are mentally unbalanced. I guess we can also safely assume that they do not consume drugs and or anti-depressants and finally, their young people are not familiar with any of the violent video games that we are subjected to here in the US.
As I first stated, if the availability of guns and the ability to wander about armed to the teeth, including body armor, have been eliminated as a part of the problem, it leaves one puzzled as to where we differ from our Australian friends in regards to mass murders?
Any thoughts?
As I first stated, if the availability of guns and the ability to wander about armed to the teeth, including body armor, have been eliminated as a part of the problem, it leaves one puzzled as to where we differ from our Australian friends in regards to mass murders?
Any thoughts?
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Not speaking for Win & or Liberty but I have seen the same as they have. If you are a cut above ? Then IMO you are in the rare category. And I tip my hat to you.
"Most parents don't run to prescription meds for their kids. Quite the opposite. It's the last place they go, and only when all other avenues have failed them."
Here again, it has been my experience that, that is exactly what they do ........ 'well I gave him/her all the drugs the doc said to ...... he/she just doesn't get any better. ' Not a quote, but similar to what I have heard.
I'm sorry
This made me think about the early years of discovering my eldest son was schizophrenic
Again, sorry, this may have some bearing, maybe not, but feel the need to re-post this
I just watched the movie 'Shine' last night
.....reminded me of my eldest son
was hard to hold emotion thru some parts
was much harder for my Lady
but we remained
riveted
My son
Excelled in academics
Skipped grades
Won awards
Became somewhat sought after
Mensa
Artistic things hung in municipal halls
Life for him was just too slow apace
Stayed up for days at a time
He’d regurgitate all his thoughts to his mother and I
It was a bit suffocating
Then one day he came to me in my shop
....and began crying, telling me he felt he was going crazy,
but unable to put his feelings into words
I hugged him
Told him all kids go thru puberty and change
‘this too shall pass’ kinda thing
The next years are a blur
I guess maybe I never have wished to dwell on the events in those years
I’ll try to piece some together on my own, as I know better than to ask my lady
He ended up in prison
At 19
Advancing from a minimum security facility to OSP
And on to ‘thunderdome’
Where nobody wants to go
Tried to arrange visits
Rejected countless times
Talked to OSP counselors
‘forget your son, concentrate on your other children’
We got a call
OSP does not call anyone
‘You need to see your son’
The visiting area was like a staging zone for zoo critters
Steel tables, benches, cemented in
Chain link walls and doors
He was led in by guards
Shackled head to toe
Made to sit
Unseeing eyes
No recognition
Indistinguishable utterances
He stunk to high heaven
Never looked our way
On the way home I had to pull over, off the freeway
I don’t remember the last time I cried
Maybe as a small child...
But
Never wept like that in my life
And have yet too since
Bitter
Helpless
Godless
Utter hopelessness
A week (?) later we got another call
He was being transferred to the psych ward across the street
Where ‘One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest’ was filmed
We were told he had quit eating entirely
Weighed 90 lbs
A guard carried him across the street, in his arms
We were led to the visiting area
Typical booth like situation for visitors
Only, the other side of the glass was something from a zombie movie
We got to watch him attempt to drink milk and cry
My lady had a very hard time
I went alone
Weeks of visiting later, he was released
Just like that
After 7 years of maximum security
to us
I do not do well when cleaning up men with uncontrolled body functions
Triage
Nut bins
Meds
It’s all a blur
Somewhere in there, when he was still cognizant, I did a bit of a fraught thing…
We talked about his options
He wanted to go camping
So
Him and I packed his meager belongings
Bought him some basic camp stuff
Drove him to the Trask river area
And dropped him off
while it began to rain
Ever do something that gave you immediate relief, knowing the end result would probably not be optimal?
On the way back home, I tried not to think.
Still
Thoughts crept in
Maybe he’d just lie there curled in his sleeping bag
Inert
Oblivious
Until days later large birds of prey would dine on his remains
It’s all a blur
They found him 300 miles south
Incoherent
The Tillamook women’s mental health facility asked us to take him back 'he can't stay here'
More triage
Got him hooked up with a place called Luke-Dorf
General population nut bin for semi-functional goofballs
Then what they call the quad
Then paired up in a shared apartment
And now
On his own
On a budget
I figger the tax payer’s dollars for this are from this tax payer
During these times he’d ever so often not take his meds
Sometimes it was because they changed colors or shapes and he didn’t think they were right
Sometimes it was just because he thought he no longer needed them
Always ended with me going over there, reattaching his phone, and fishing his glasses outa the toilet.
He’s as functional now as you and me, first look.
As long as he takes his meds.
Sorry
This is jumbled time line mess
My lady can recite the events like they happened yesterday
7 or more years of them
I will not take her there
Couple things;
Underage folks do not get diagnosed in regard to mental health
No matter how batshit crazy they are
At least they didn’t then
but
Rosie O'Donnell can git outa bed to do a show
Then go back to bed
And she’s clinically nuts
I know, I know, mental illness is different than insanity
I jus’ wanted to be trite for a bit during this scattered post
Last edited:
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Gary, I am so sorry.
No sorrys, please, sweet Butterfly
Everbod here has their bags...everybody
It's just good to air them out ever so often
and StarSong's words hit home 'until you've walk a mile in the shoes of a parent whose child has suffered'
Last edited:
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Gary I feel deeply for you, your lady, your son, and the others whose lives were turned upside down by mental illness.
Since you so generously shared your story, I will share mine.
One of my sons suffered with terrible ADHD and PTSD. Another had ADD. We tried everything. Consequences for "bad behavior." The first son's room was eventually stripped of virtually everything but a bed and dresser. No games, toys, TV time was at near zero, no sleepovers. You get the picture. Prison - the home version. We tried everything that prevailing wisdom dictated. He was in endless trouble in school, despite being very bright.
By the time he was in 5th grade we were exhausted and unable to continue the unhappiness that was our family. So we went to a child psychiatrist who tested him for ADD. When we chatted at the end of the test, the psychiatrist told us our son was off the charts for ADD. Off the charts. He talked to us about meds. To say we were incredibly reluctant would be a massive understatement. I was terrified of handing my child a gateway drug that would lead to a lifetime of abuse and addiction.
The psychiatrist assured us that statistics clearly showed that ADD ADHD kids who do not receive medication are far more likely to end up with substance abuse problems because of their attempts to self medicate with drugs and alcohol. So we tried it. Within a week he was no longer in trouble at school and was permitted (for the first time since 2nd grade) to sit near his friends instead of abutting the teacher's desk. The teacher's words? "Wow! Just wow!"
As the psychiatrist predicted, the meds not only helped him settle down, they gave him a chance to form a new self-image, and develop coping skills for his ADHD without all that zooming going on in his head. Again, as predicted, he stopped taking the meds on his own in his second year of college.
He's now in his 30s, happily married, employed at a $100K plus job, and managing his life well. When he hits a serious bump he goes to therapy.
My other son's story is similar but a little less dramatic.
When in HS they were both very sympathetic toward kids who they knew were ADD (from a it[takes-one-to-know-one perspective), but whose parents wouldn't/couldn't look into that possibility because they either couldn't accept having a less than perfect child, or refused to "drug" their children.
The endings for many of those children were far less happy. Heavy drug and alcohol use in latter HS and through their early 20s. Some entanglements with the law. I have no idea how their lives spun out after that.
Our sons are grateful that we sought professional help and took the advice. My only regret is not taking them sooner.
Since you so generously shared your story, I will share mine.
One of my sons suffered with terrible ADHD and PTSD. Another had ADD. We tried everything. Consequences for "bad behavior." The first son's room was eventually stripped of virtually everything but a bed and dresser. No games, toys, TV time was at near zero, no sleepovers. You get the picture. Prison - the home version. We tried everything that prevailing wisdom dictated. He was in endless trouble in school, despite being very bright.
By the time he was in 5th grade we were exhausted and unable to continue the unhappiness that was our family. So we went to a child psychiatrist who tested him for ADD. When we chatted at the end of the test, the psychiatrist told us our son was off the charts for ADD. Off the charts. He talked to us about meds. To say we were incredibly reluctant would be a massive understatement. I was terrified of handing my child a gateway drug that would lead to a lifetime of abuse and addiction.
The psychiatrist assured us that statistics clearly showed that ADD ADHD kids who do not receive medication are far more likely to end up with substance abuse problems because of their attempts to self medicate with drugs and alcohol. So we tried it. Within a week he was no longer in trouble at school and was permitted (for the first time since 2nd grade) to sit near his friends instead of abutting the teacher's desk. The teacher's words? "Wow! Just wow!"
As the psychiatrist predicted, the meds not only helped him settle down, they gave him a chance to form a new self-image, and develop coping skills for his ADHD without all that zooming going on in his head. Again, as predicted, he stopped taking the meds on his own in his second year of college.
He's now in his 30s, happily married, employed at a $100K plus job, and managing his life well. When he hits a serious bump he goes to therapy.
My other son's story is similar but a little less dramatic.
When in HS they were both very sympathetic toward kids who they knew were ADD (from a it[takes-one-to-know-one perspective), but whose parents wouldn't/couldn't look into that possibility because they either couldn't accept having a less than perfect child, or refused to "drug" their children.
The endings for many of those children were far less happy. Heavy drug and alcohol use in latter HS and through their early 20s. Some entanglements with the law. I have no idea how their lives spun out after that.
Our sons are grateful that we sought professional help and took the advice. My only regret is not taking them sooner.
The usual can of worms come up yet again after these heinous and horrific acts. But will the media and public please stop calling these mass murderers and cowards 'shooters'.
Sounds like a video game. This is one reason many of these mass killers are young. What do young people do more than older people-play video games, videos games where the players are considered shooters or 'shooting' to rack up points. If one of these forked in the head minds sees or hears a headline-'Mass shooter kills 22" to them that's a score to be beat. The victim numbers are nothing points in a game to them.
And please please point out what cowards they are. Give their name and call or describe them as a coward. The pos El Paso killers surrendered, the pos actually surrendered, no blaze of glory or suicide. The Dayton killer shot at unarmed civilians in body armor. Is that soldierly like? If they want to play 'soldier' in their private war at least act like one. There is no honor or martyrdom after acts like these. The media needs to call them out on stuff like this. Bring on a string psyc specialists calling them deranged, unstable what ever. But the word mass shooting has to be replaced with mass killing or a mass murder. And they are killers, not shooters. Shooter emphasizes the tool used in the act but the act itself is what needs to be emphasized.
Sounds like a video game. This is one reason many of these mass killers are young. What do young people do more than older people-play video games, videos games where the players are considered shooters or 'shooting' to rack up points. If one of these forked in the head minds sees or hears a headline-'Mass shooter kills 22" to them that's a score to be beat. The victim numbers are nothing points in a game to them.
And please please point out what cowards they are. Give their name and call or describe them as a coward. The pos El Paso killers surrendered, the pos actually surrendered, no blaze of glory or suicide. The Dayton killer shot at unarmed civilians in body armor. Is that soldierly like? If they want to play 'soldier' in their private war at least act like one. There is no honor or martyrdom after acts like these. The media needs to call them out on stuff like this. Bring on a string psyc specialists calling them deranged, unstable what ever. But the word mass shooting has to be replaced with mass killing or a mass murder. And they are killers, not shooters. Shooter emphasizes the tool used in the act but the act itself is what needs to be emphasized.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
An addendum to the story. Despite having fairly standard health insurance, most psychiatric and subsequent psychologist visits were not covered, plus the medication copays were high. Fortunately we were in a financial position to cover these costs. Not all parents are.
People yammer on about taking care of the mentally ill, but so far our country fails to put its money where its mouth is. Instead we pay for prisons and crowdfund funerals.
People yammer on about taking care of the mentally ill, but so far our country fails to put its money where its mouth is. Instead we pay for prisons and crowdfund funerals.
Last edited:
All this talk of mental illness. Apparently the El Paso mass murderer's father was a 40 year alcoholic, addict and therapist. Even if sober just a few years he couldn't pick up on his son's proclivities? Or did this head doctor make things worse professionally or with life choices?
https://popculture.com/trending/201...us-wrote-addiction-battle-spoke-jesus-memoir/
Also I thought I read the father was charged with a felony but found not guilty.
https://popculture.com/trending/201...us-wrote-addiction-battle-spoke-jesus-memoir/
Also I thought I read the father was charged with a felony but found not guilty.
So, now this case is closed. The shooter is dead and we can all move on, except the families of the victims. They must deal with the aftermath. The media can talk about closure all they want. On Sunday, I heard one reporter make the comment that there was instant closure when the shooter shot and killed himself.
The funerals haven’t even take place yet and some nitwit is talking about the families’ closure. Not so fast, Jellybean. We have to have the funeral, mourning and then a time for grieving. Would that be OK with you?
The worse part is, we will have to go through this again. How many more times is anyone’s guess. When and how will this madness end?
The funerals haven’t even take place yet and some nitwit is talking about the families’ closure. Not so fast, Jellybean. We have to have the funeral, mourning and then a time for grieving. Would that be OK with you?
The worse part is, we will have to go through this again. How many more times is anyone’s guess. When and how will this madness end?
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Reinterpret the 2nd amendment and disband the NRA. Then progress might be possible.