North Mexico attack: Three women, six children killed in ambush

RadishRose

RadishRose

SF VIP
Location
Connecticut, USA
I read that this morning on the news. Seems they were on their way to a wedding, but on previous trips there had been some kind of bad blood between the Mexican Cartel members and the males of the family..what exactly I don't know, but it's apparent it wasn't as random as it first appears, but of course there's never an excuse to kill innocent children.

One report said that the UTAH Momons in their own way are almost as powerful as the Cartels, so this killing won't end here...
 
For the record, the bulk of the Mexican Population avoids travel to the border regions. They too are shocked at the amount of violence occurring there.

However, they have two views: it is an embarrassment to have such events
within their nation; they too mourn the deaths.

Their second view is the American's are the root cause: if there was not the demand for drugs, these events would never have happened.
Please quit telling us how to run our nation and resolve a problem of your
(American Money) own making.

I have to agree with both views.
 

jerry r. garner said:
For the record, the bulk of the Mexican Population avoids travel to the border regions. They too are shocked at the amount of violence occurring there.

However, they have two views: it is an embarrassment to have such events
within their nation; they too mourn the deaths.

Their second view is the American's are the root cause: if there was not the demand for drugs, these events would never have happened.
Please quit telling us how to run our nation and resolve a problem of your
(American Money) own making.

I have to agree with both views.
Click to expand...


I tend to agree as well.........
 
One report said that the UTAH Momons in their own way are almost as powerful as the Cartels, so this killing won't end here...
Click to expand...

I'm curious about that, Holly. Does that mean that the Mormons in Utah are a powerful, murderous cartel, similar to the Mexican drug lords? That sounds so absurd that I'm probably reading it wrong. So, what did that mean?
 
For a very, very, very long time now (decades), the idea of me ever going near Mexico for any reason at all has scared me. There have been nonsensical killings like these, forever. But if anyone thinks that's prejudice or discrimination, I have felt that way about many other places in the world as well. You have to be totally unaware or just don't care about your life to do something like that. JMO.
 
jerry r. garner said:
For the record, the bulk of the Mexican Population avoids travel to the border regions. They too are shocked at the amount of violence occurring there.

However, they have two views: it is an embarrassment to have such events
within their nation; they too mourn the deaths.

Their second view is the American's are the root cause: if there was not the demand for drugs, these events would never have happened.
Please quit telling us how to run our nation and resolve a problem of your
(American Money) own making.

I have to agree with both views.
Click to expand...
I see it the other way. If Mexico would be doing their job by knocking out the drug lords and suppliers, who they already know, the drugs would stop flowing into the U.S. You can't have it both ways. No drugs, no users, but as long as there are users, the drugs will keep flowing.

There is an abundance of corruption in Mexican politics and the Policia, along with other officials, that I would't doubt that El Presidente` wasn't also involved with these scum.
 
I was a bit reluctant to post this yesterday as it may be perceived as inflammatory;
In the 70's and 80's the Mennonites (religions group similar to Amish, except
they use cars, tractors, as well as wagons) were involved in transporting drugs.
(You can find it on the net) Mennonites, again transportation drugs in 2013...

Many years ago, a 'cult' group of Mormon's tracked another 'cult' Mormon
to Houston, Tx and killed him.

The Mexican Political structure?
I do not like to use a movie as am example, but 'Man of Fire,' is a good
example of how corrupt the police are.
Policing on the border areas, is a whole different in ballgame than that
practiced in deep Southern Mexico. (the border is Northern Mexico, we call it Southern Mexico- their measuring stick is from Mexico City.)

This was not a church squabble, the 'hit squad' Mormons were driven, determined to kill this other 'cult,' member.

These were splinter groups that practiced their own brand of the Mormon
religion, not sanction, nor connected to the founding church.

Living in Texas, this types of events draw immediate attention.
There is always the memory of WACO.

I fear there is much more to come from this incident-all BAD!
 
Last edited:
hollydolly said:
I read that this morning on the news. Seems they were on their way to a wedding, but on previous trips there had been some kind of bad blood between the Mexican Cartel members and the males of the family..what exactly I don't know, but it's apparent it wasn't as random as it first appears, but of course there's never an excuse to kill innocent children.

One report said that the UTAH Mormons in their own way are almost as powerful as the Cartels, so this killing won't end here...
Click to expand...
How do you mean, Holly?
 
Time for soapboxing:
2011, Cartel members invaded Mexican town destroyed a part of the town.
They were an army of cartel members.
See: 'How US triggered massacre in (Juarze, I think)
National Geographical has several excellent articles on the power of the cartels. See: "'How US triggered massacre in Juarez" I think it was Juarez

Are religions groups involved with the cartels-yes.
There are a 100,000 Mexican Mormons living in Mexico,
Mennonites-don't know.

A vague understanding of the Ethos of Mexicans will give you an understanding of events. The culture of Mexico is more difficult to grasp than that of European Countries.
 
Last edited:
jerry r. garner said:
I was a bit reluctant to post this yesterday as it may be perceived as inflammatory;
In the 70's and 80's the Mennonites (religions group similar to Amish, except
they use cars, tractors, as well as wagons) were involved in transporting drugs.
(You can find it on the net) Mennonites, again transportation drugs in 2013...

Many years ago, a 'cult' group of Mormon's tracked another 'cult' Mormon
to Houston, Tx and killed him.

This was not a church squabble, the 'hit squad' Mormons were driven, determined to kill this other 'cult,' member.

These were splinter groups that practiced their own brand of the Mormon
religion, not sanction, nor connected to the founding church.

Living in Texas, this types of events draw immediate attention.
There is always the memory of WACO.
Click to expand...
Jerry: I would never connect the Mormons with the Mennonites. I live in Amish country and have a lot of Amish and Mennonite friends. They are not one in the same or even close. I would say that their only connection is that both religions got their start while in the Anabaptist movement, which began if Europe. Just like any religious group, there are some groups that left the original church and began their own type of religion and became the "splinter groups" that you referred to. Actually, the Mennonites are a closer religious order to the Dunkards. I also have a few of them as acquaintances. All are very nice people.

As an example, I would refer you to Jeff Lundgren, who has been executed for the killing of an entire family in Kirtland, Ohio, just east of Cleveland. Lundgren was a member of the LDS, not sure which community, but Mormons are pretty much the same. Lundgren did not go long with the original teachings of the LDS and decided to form his own religion while keeping some of the teachings of the LDS, but then adding his own, as well. IOW, he was a crackpot.

Quick side story... I'm driving down the road headed back to the Barracks to change clothes and check out for the day. I worked 10 at night to 6 or so in the morning back then. We were in Strasburg, PA, where the movie "Witness" was filmed; parts of it, anyway. I was on a nice long stretch of the road when I saw Jacob Yoder waving me down. I thought that someone was hurt or ill. Jacob tells me to "Come quick into the barn." That's the way they talk. His big Draft mare gave birth to a very large foal. His wife, Anna, brings us coffee and homemade bread with fresh butter.
 
Don't these Mormons live in Mexico to escape our laws against child brides, forced marriages, polygamy, rape? I believe the answer is yes, as that is what written evidence claims. Not condoning murder by any means, but these fundamentalist Mormons are not innocents, but criminals in their own right.
 
No! No! the Amish culture is totally against drugs, and virtually any other
criminal behavior-I knew that.
I used them as an example of the rustic, avoidance of modern day mores
as an example.
I'm not sure many have a basic understanding of the Mennonites. They have behaviors similar to the Amish, but in no way
are they to be consider as engaging in any criminal behavior.

I will go back and correct... Again, the only similarity between Mormans and Mennonites is their rustic folkways.
THANKS

911:
Good, got any reference to Amish swiped; would you be kind enough to
swipe my reference to Amish on you post of my quote>
Thanks again.
 
Jerry: I have no reference to give you, it’s just what I know living around them most of my life. One summer, I was in a small coffee house in one of the Amish villages. A fellow (Amish) came in and walked up to a small group of young Amish boys and asked them if anyone could help with the baling that afternoon. Well, of course, all being kids, they all had “other things” to do. I told the man that I was available. He asked me if I ever baled by hand. I told him that I had several years ago. He said he didn’t pay much and I said that it was a OK. Actually, the Amish don’t pay anything. Normally, they help each other for no pay.

I worked 7 hours that afternoon and he handed me $7. I told him that I didn’t do it for the money. He asked me why did I do it. I told him that it brought back a lot of good memories. He told me to stop by tomorrow at noon. I wasn’t going to go back, but I felt that I needed to go, just to find out why he wanted me to go back. When I got there, he took me out to a huge shed he had. Once inside, he handed me some vegetables and some homemade baked goods. I was glad to take the things. He said it was payment for helping him bale. That’s how we became friends. I would stop by from time to time and we would just tell each other farm stories. Like I said, good people. And, the homemade bread and muffins were great.
 
Sunny said:
I'm curious about that, Holly. Does that mean that the Mormons in Utah are a powerful, murderous cartel, similar to the Mexican drug lords? That sounds so absurd that I'm probably reading it wrong. So, what did that mean?
Click to expand...
As I said, I have no idea, I only quoted what I read somewhere...
 
Pepper said:
Don't these Mormons live in Mexico to escape our laws against child brides, forced marriages, polygamy, rape? I believe the answer is yes, as that is what written evidence claims. Not condoning murder by any means, but these fundamentalist Mormons are not innocents, but criminals in their own right.
Click to expand...

So that makes it OK for drug cartels to kill Mormon women and children driving along minding their own business?? And the children and babies that were killed -- 6 of them -- were "criminals in their own right?"

According to what I have read, these particular Mormon families have lived in Mexico for decades and are not fugitives from justice, and the great majority of them do not practice polygamy. Even if they do, and if it is against Mexican law, it is a matter for the Mexican authorities to sort out, and not for drug cartels to ambush and massacre.

I do not agree with what Mormon people believe in, but I strongly believe in their right to believe what they want to and live in peace.

And I most certainly do not believe anyone under any circumstances should be massacred for their religious beliefs. The minute we accept that as OK, we are headed down a very dark and evil road and history tells us where that road leads.
 
The Mormons in America have long been subject to a great deal of hatred, prejudice, and false accusations against them. I've never understood why; as far as I know, they are a somewhat wacko cult with religious and social ideas that go against the mainstream at times. Until this discussion, I have never heard any implication that they are involved with drug cartels, except as victims.

Here's an interesting summary:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-part-mormon-offshoot-sordid-history-n1076776
 
Butterfly said:
So that makes it OK for drug cartels to kill Mormon women and children driving along minding their own business?? And the children and babies that were killed -- 6 of them -- were "criminals in their own right?"

According to what I have read, these particular Mormon families have lived in Mexico for decades and are not fugitives from justice, and the great majority of them do not practice polygamy. Even if they do, and if it is against Mexican law, it is a matter for the Mexican authorities to sort out, and not for drug cartels to ambush and massacre.

I do not agree with what Mormon people believe in, but I strongly believe in their right to believe what they want to and live in peace.

And I most certainly do not believe anyone under any circumstances should be massacred for their religious beliefs. The minute we accept that as OK, we are headed down a very dark and evil road and history tells us where that road leads.
Click to expand...


"So that makes it OK for drug cartels to kill Mormon women and children driving along minding their own business?? And the children and babies that were killed -- 6 of them -- were "criminals in their own right?" "

Not defending the attack at all but.....If it truly was a mistake in identity ? Perhaps the Suburbans had dark tint on the windows...? [not unusual] And the bad guys could not see that there were children in them? Or who for that matter was in them period ?

I have heard for some time that...the Mormons living in Mexico, are involved in the drug trade.

Think about it......what better way to hide that one is involved in crime........than to walk around carrying a bible?

jus'sayin.
 
Last edited:
rgp said:
"So that makes it OK for drug cartels to kill Mormon women and children driving along minding their own business?? And the children and babies that were killed -- 6 of them -- were "criminals in their own right?" "

Not defending the attack at all but.....If it truly was a mistake in identity ? Perhaps the Suburbans had dark tint on the windows...? [not unusual] And the bad guys could not see that there were children in them? Or who for that matter who was in them period ?

I have heard for some time that...the Mormons living in Mexico, are involved in the drug trade.

Think about it......what better way to hide that one is involved in crime........than to walk around carrying a bible?

jus'sayin.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, there is no evidence or even credible accusation that the Mormons are involved in the drug trade. To the contrary, there has been reporting that the group had been vocal in their opposition of the cartels.

Even if that were true, the murder of women and children is still an abomination. It seems that some are more than willing to blame the victims in this appalling slaughter. This was the cold blooded murder of family groups traveling for private family reasons. Whether or not the killers knew who was in the vehicles does not change that in any manner or degree, nor does any accusation of wrongdoing on the part of the religious group to which the victims belonged.
 
Butterfly said:
As far as I know, there is no evidence or even credible accusation that the Mormons are involved in the drug trade. To the contrary, there has been reporting that the group had been vocal in their opposition of the cartels.

Even if that were true, the murder of women and children is still an abomination. It seems that some are more than willing to blame the victims in this appalling slaughter. This was the cold blooded murder of family groups traveling for private family reasons. Whether or not the killers knew who was in the vehicles does not change that in any manner or degree, nor does any accusation of wrongdoing on the part of the religious group to which the victims belonged.
Click to expand...


Did you read the link put up by Sunny in post # 20?....Opens some questions .

And they were under suspicion for years back in the 90's.

As for........

"Whether or not the killers knew who was in the vehicles does not change that in any manner or degree,"

I never said it changed anything, I said it may be the reason the vehicles were attacked in the first place.
 
The Mormon group in Mexico may be one of three things
1. A splinter group like Jerry stated earlier. IOW, they still consider them selves as Mormons, but they have a few differences from the LDS.
2. They have initiated their own sect of being a Mormon.
3. They are Mormons believing in the LDS, but just live in Mexico as their preferred place to live.

The Amish do likewise. They don't all live in 1 state or 1 community. Most religious orders are like that. This group just so happened to pick Mexico. I guess some of them have gone their own way with the selling of drugs, but not all drug dealers are Mormons. Some are Christians, others may be Catholic, some may be Atheists and so on and so forth. Take your pick. Every religion probably has some bad eggs.

Read about Jeff Lundgren. This guy was the head of a splinter group of Mormons, but left the LDS church and started his own group. How any person can kill a family of 4, one person at a time is beyond my mental capacity.
 
Mexico:

The cults of personality:
We lack facts, hard data, we don't know
We have opinions, we have gossip-we are curious because these people are so far outside our experiences.

I went back on net, reading Koresh, and the lone wolf personalities: McVeigh
and Kaczmski-were never going to know what motivates these people.

Mexico, there is little proof of a religious sect's or cult's involvement with a drug cartel-so far. (It smells like it, feels like it, and it probably true, but no actual proof-yet)

It certainly appears to be, the history, the peculiar traits of the sect, the previous involvement with drug cartel; I believe it to be drug related.
Yet, I have little or no proof.

Regarding all sects, cults, peculiar people?
My curiosity lays within those that follow a (apparently) charismatic leader.
That is what makes my mind whirl, why do you follow a person (and persons)
that have you doing things you know to be wrong?

Again, we don't know what occurred in Mexico, we think we do, but we have
no proof. That is not going to stop us from posting.

No doubt, I will return later and post my opinion
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top