Do they dead greet the dying?

Liberty said:
Don't assume the other side is like this mundane 3 dimensional plane. It is a higher dimension. So to try to compare who and what we are now with the same limited logic is a major understanding flaw. We are souls that have bodies, not bodies that have souls. Call it a work in progress...lol.
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OK lets go with your explanation of we are souls that have bodies

How do those billions of souls rejoin the souls of their families?

Another question. Do those souls feel anything like happiness or sadness. Particularly sadness if they find out a family member soul wasn't with the rest of the family?
 

Liberty said:
Don't assume the other side is like this mundane 3 dimensional plane. It is a higher dimension.
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Please define "planes" and "higher dimensions." I know what planes and dimensions are in mathematics. But what do you mean in this context, and what evidence can you offer to support your beliefs?

I have been asking questions like this for decades, but have yet to hear any coherent answers. It seems to me that if people can't even define their terms, then they don't know what they're talking about. I am not, as was suggested above, brushing it all off as nonsense. However, i have great difficulty taking something seriously when people can't explain it or and have no answers to obvious questions.
 
Knight said:
OK lets go with your explanation of we are souls that have bodies

How do those billions of souls rejoin the souls of their families?

Another question. Do those souls feel anything like happiness or sadness. Particularly sadness if they find out a family member soul wasn't with the rest of the family?
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Here you go again...thinking like gosh he had 3 wives here so who is his wife in heaven...lol. Think of it as we are corpuscles in the body of God. This temporary world is a gross dense matter world. Souls don't die, you can't kill a soul...when we arrive each time back on the other side, that world is the real world. Souls do travel in groups, but in the higher dimensions you can be on several levels at a time.

We don't even know what happens to us in 1/3 of our earthly lives...the time we sleep and dream, let alone trying to answer these higher dimensional areas of awareness while in the limited 5 sense arena here in the earthly shell. From what I've seen, its like old home week when we pass back over...one more time around the sun. Its like going from an old black & white little TV box to a gigantic HDTV color screen. The great adventure begins yet once again.
 

Liberty said:
Here you go again...thinking like gosh he had 3 wives here so who is his wife in heaven...lol. Think of it as we are corpuscles in the body of God. This temporary world is a gross dense matter world. Souls don't die, you can't kill a soul...when we arrive each time back on the other side, that world is the real world. Souls do travel in groups, but in the higher dimensions you can be on several levels at a time.

We don't even know what happens to us in 1/3 of our earthly lives...the time we sleep and dream, let alone trying to answer these higher dimensional areas of awareness while in the limited 5 sense arena here in the earthly shell. From what I've seen, its like old home week when we pass back over...one more time around the sun. Its like going from an old black & white little TV box to a gigantic HDTV color screen. The great adventure begins yet once again.
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Geeze I thought those two questions would be easy to answer. Guess not.

There is a saying I learned in the Navy

When you don't know the answer Baffle them with BS.

An example
Its like going from an old black & white little TV box to a gigantic HDTV color screen. The great adventure begins yet once again.

I admit I'm baffled by that
 
raybar said:
I said " . . . there exists zero evidence of an "afterlife" . . . "
Liberty said "Don't think those that choose to be negative would ever believe in the higher dimensions."



It's not negative to point out that there's no evidence for something, or to ask for evidence when claims are made.

Even in daily life, with respect to trivial matters, I do not understand why anyone believes anything without evidence. If someone offers you an investment opportunity, don't you want all the details before you hand over your money? If someone said he's a spectacular gymnast, or a fabulous musician, wouldn't you want to see a little demonstration before before believing him?

Yet here, talking about the very nature of reality - - is there an afterlife, do the dead visit the living, are there unseen dimensions - - people seem willing to base their most fundamental beliefs on nothing. Or perhaps they've forgotten the distinction between their hopes and their beliefs.

I'm not choosing to be negative. I'm saying that such questions are unanswerable due to a lack of evidence.
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I said " . . . there exists zero evidence of an "afterlife" . . . "
Liberty said "Don't think those that choose to be negative would ever believe in the higher dimensions."
“…Even in daily life, with respect to trivial matters, I do not understand why anyone believes anything without evidence………If someone offers you an investment opportunity, don't you want all the details before you hand over your money? … What if there is a missed detrimental detail?........../”If someone said he's a spectacular gymnast, or a fabulous musician, wouldn't you want to see a little demonstration/evidence before believing him?”...........Perhaps the “evidence” could not be sustained?

“…Talking about the very nature of reality - - is there an afterlife, do the dead visit the living, are there unseen dimensions - - ……”Are there? Where’s the proof there are not?” “..People seem willing to base their most fundamental beliefs on nothing” “Can you prove their beliefs are based on nothing? Or the other way around? As fallible fact finding humans, how can we be sure our “evidence” is infallible? I read an article years ago about experiences witnessed in how they saw people who have faith in God of the Bible die unafraid, where non-believers died protesting in fear.
 
Knight said:
Geeze I thought those two questions would be easy to answer. Guess not.

There is a saying I learned in the Navy

When you don't know the answer Baffle them with BS.

An example
Its like going from an old black & white little TV box to a gigantic HDTV color screen. The great adventure begins yet once again.

I admit I'm baffled by that
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Well when you choose to not try to understand its easy to say its BS. Ask yourself the question how would this creature, temporarily encased in the gravity ruled 3rd rock from the sun, be capable of understanding and easily explaining to another creature what it will be like when you take off out of your earthly body at the transition called death. Very easy, right?
 
Liberty said:
Well when you choose to not try to understand its easy to say its BS. Ask yourself the question how would this creature, temporarily encased in the gravity ruled 3rd rock from the sun, be capable of understanding and easily explaining to another creature what it will be like when you take off out of your earthly body at the transition called death. Very easy, right?
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Believing in reality rather than fantasy is not the same thing as choosing to not try to understand. Probably every thinking human being has tried to understand or imagine; the difference is that what some of us call imaginative fiction, others claim as truth. All of these statements about spirits, dimensions, the other side, "taking off from earthly bodies," etc. are just pure conjecture. No one has been there and returned to tell us about it, and no one has any proof. And most likely, thus it will ever be.

The fact is, no one really likes the idea that it will all end for us at the moment of death. We'd all like to see our loved ones again, and we'd like to keep some consciousness, somehow, somewhere. But all these flights of fancy are just extensions of that desire to not have it end.

My own belief: Remember what it was like before you were born? Of course not. That's probably what it will be like after you die. Consciousness is a product of the human brain. It's not floating around somewhere out there in spirit-land.

Yes, I'm encased in the "gravity ruled 3rd rock from the sun," otherwise known as reality.
 
Sunny said:
Believing in reality rather than fantasy is not the same thing as choosing to not try to understand. Probably every thinking human being has tried to understand or imagine; the difference is that what some of us call imaginative fiction, others claim as truth. All of these statements about spirits, dimensions, the other side, "taking off from earthly bodies," etc. are just pure conjecture. No one has been there and returned to tell us about it, and no one has any proof. And most likely, thus it will ever be.

The fact is, no one really likes the idea that it will all end for us at the moment of death. We'd all like to see our loved ones again, and we'd like to keep some consciousness, somehow, somewhere. But all these flights of fancy are just extensions of that desire to not have it end.

My own belief: Remember what it was like before you were born? Of course not. That's probably what it will be like after you die. Consciousness is a product of the human brain. It's not floating around somewhere out there in spirit-land.

Yes, I'm encased in the "gravity ruled 3rd rock from the sun," otherwise known as reality.
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That's understandable...hey you can't remember what you did as a child or even a few years ago...especially what it "felt like" to do it. Until you've been outside your body...had an NDE or something you probably won't be able to understand much about the fourth dimensional world. Its "natural" that you wouldn't. Many books have been written from die hard 3rd dimensional people that suddenly were thrust into that "next" transitional world with an auto accident or operation or some other life threatening experience.

They have proven to be able to see things in other rooms and floors of the hospital for instance, or what went on in the OR or accident scene while they were supposedly "dead" . No way could that have been possible if they were in their bodies.

But with that said, everyone has their own free will and can see things from their own focus. That's what its all about. We call reality what we are aware of in the 5 sense world, not what might totally exist.

Quotation-Albert-Einstein-Reality-is-merely-an-illusion-albeit-a-very-persistent-one-8-73-32.jpg
 
More true ghost stories: There were three of us in my office who were psychic (really, we've proven ourselves). One day J, who was one of them, was standing by my interview room just chatting. Suddenly she seemed startled and said "Did you SEE that?!" Before I could ask what she saw...our regional manager called her into her office. I thought the pizza guy who passed behind her had startled her. When she got back I asked her what she had seen. She said a tall white man in a white robe was suddenly standing next to her (out of my line of vision). She indicated that he was "my spirit". I asked her how did she know he wasn't there for her. She said she knows her spirits. What's interesting about this is I had just gotten back from South Carolina where I was trying to find out more about my maternal grandfather. I was told he was tall and looked like a White man.

My DIL's little cousin talked to her parents about her friend (that no one else had seen). She was just a toddler so naturally they assumed she had an imaginary friend. One day she went to her parents and told them something her friend, saying his name, had told her. Her father started crying. Since this was over a decade ago, I don't remember what she told them but it was something that his best friend with the name she mentioned who had died before she was born always used to say. They had never talked about him in front of this child. From then on they felt that his best friend was looking out for their daughter.

@Gardenlover I'm into paranormal stuff but my son isn't. One day he was in our music studio working. He came out and told me he smelled his grandfather's pipe. No one has ever smoked in this apartment, the windows were not open and my father had been dead for at least 20 years before that happened.
 
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Sunny said:
Believing in reality rather than fantasy is not the same thing as choosing to not try to understand. Probably every thinking human being has tried to understand or imagine; the difference is that what some of us call imaginative fiction, others claim as truth. All of these statements about spirits, dimensions, the other side, "taking off from earthly bodies," etc. are just pure conjecture. No one has been there and returned to tell us about it, and no one has any proof. And most likely, thus it will ever be.

The fact is, no one really likes the idea that it will all end for us at the moment of death. We'd all like to see our loved ones again, and we'd like to keep some consciousness, somehow, somewhere. But all these flights of fancy are just extensions of that desire to not have it end.

My own belief: Remember what it was like before you were born? Of course not. That's probably what it will be like after you die. Consciousness is a product of the human brain. It's not floating around somewhere out there in spirit-land.

Yes, I'm encased in the "gravity ruled 3rd rock from the sun," otherwise known as reality.
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I like to think there's more to life than just being a disposal battery. Here full of energy today and thrown out in the trash tomorrow.

If this is the case, nothing could keep me from living the most narcissistic life possible.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
More true ghost stories: There were three of us in my office who were psychic (really, we've proved ourselves). One day J, who was one of them, was standing by my interview room just chatting. Suddenly she seems startled and said "Did you SEE that?!" Before I could ask what she saw...our regional manager called her into her office. I thought the pizza guy who passed behind her had startled her. When she got back I asked her what she had seen. She said a tall white man in a white robe was suddenly standing next to her (out of my line of vision). She indicated that he was "my spirit". I asked her how she didn't know he wasn't there for her. She said she knows her spirits. What's interesting about this is I had just gotten back from South Carolina where I was trying to find out more about my maternal grandfather. I was told he was tall and looked like a White man.

My DIL's little cousin talked to her parents about her friend (that no one else had seen). She was just a toddler so naturally they assumed she had an imaginary friend. One day she went to her parents and told them something her friend, saying his name, had told her. Her father started crying. Since this was over a decade ago, I don't remember what she told them but it was something that his best friend with the name she mentioned who had died before she was born always used to say. They had never talked about him in front of this child. From then on they felt that his best friend was looking out for their daughter.

@Gardenlover I'm into paranormal stuff but my son isn't. One day he was in our music studio working. He came out and told me he smelled his grandfather's pipe. No one has ever smoked in this apartment, the windows were not open and my father had been dead for at least 20 years before that happened.
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Absolutey. Wonderful example of the little children being open enough to "see" and "feel" - realize the higher dimensional input down here in the physical. Betting both the best friend and Gardenlover's dad were checking up on their loved ones!
 
Can proof be relative? Say, I die and after 15 minutes I am brought back to life and share an amazing story of the other side.
1) I wasn't really dead as they could revive me - it was just a wild dream.
2) I died and encountered the other side, but the story cannot be scientifically proven so it isn't believed.

There's hope in believing there's more, which makes me happier. Otherwise, every second of the day I wasted would torment me.
 
Liberty said:
Absolutey. Wonderful example of the little children being open enough to "see" and "feel" - realize the higher dimensional input down here in the physical. Betting both the best friend and Gardenlover's dad were checking up on their loved ones!
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When I took an 8 week metaphysical course in 1988, the instructor mentioned that children are better receptors for paranormal experiences. That is until adults start telling them they are being silly, just imagining things or otherwise discouraging their gifts. Their unspoiled innocence and openness is key.
 
MarciKS said:
I love how non-Christian's always refer to believing in God and his word to be a fantasy or a fairytale. If you are wrong you are gonna be in a world of hurt.
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So, Marci, you think only Christians believe in God?

It is true that atheists don't believe in God, or at least not the traditional version of God. But do you really think that all non-Christians are atheists? Boy, have you got a lot to learn! (Ever hear of the Jews or the Muslims, for instance?)

And if your second sentence is what you really believe, what a sad, narrow, mean-spirited philosophy that is. Anyone who doesn't believe in your religion is in for a world of hurt? You sound like the Puritans of 400 years ago.

Anyway, how did this become a discussion about belief in God and "his word?" I thought we were talking about the dead communicating with the dying, and paranormal experiences. Amazing how you stuck God into the middle of this discussion!

I don't have statistics on this, but I very much doubt that most Christians really believe in all this paranormal nonsense. That is not part of the Christian religion, except for maybe the fringe groups.
 
Gardenlover said:
I like to think there's more to life than just being a disposal battery. Here full of energy today and thrown out in the trash tomorrow.

If this is the case, nothing could keep me from living the most narcissistic life possible.
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Certainly there's more to life. There are non-theistic religions, such as ethical humanism, Unitarianism, and many others, which believe we show our goodness by caring for the planet, fighting for human rights, respecting other people's freedom to believe what is true for them, rejoicing in the beauty of this earth, trying to make life better for the people around us, and so on.

Isn't that enough reason to continue living according to our own ethical values, without needing a "big reward" if we are good boys and girls, and a terrible punishment if we are not? I believe that living a decent life, full of love, humor, friendship, helping those in need, and not trashing the planet, is its own reward. I don't need pie in the sky.

But again, what does all this have to do with whether spirits are roaming the earth, communicating with the living?
 
Liberty said:
Well when you choose to not try to understand its easy to say its BS. Ask yourself the question how would this creature, temporarily encased in the gravity ruled 3rd rock from the sun, be capable of understanding and easily explaining to another creature what it will be like when you take off out of your earthly body at the transition called death. Very easy, right?
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I asked myself and got this answer.

When you die that's it. There is no sprit in the sky billions of years old checking off a naughty or nice list. I'd also explain that master spirit isn't surrounded by other helpful spirits & the spirits of billions that lived a life worthy of going to the sky.

Thinking that people meet their relatives would mean that spirit was sentient. So I ask again how do billions of spirits manage to find their loved ones.
 
Knight said:
I asked myself and got this answer.

When you die that's it. There is no sprit in the sky billions of years old checking off a naughty or nice list. I'd also explain that master spirit isn't surrounded by other helpful spirits & the spirits of billions that lived a life worthy of going to the sky.

Thinking that people meet their relatives would mean that spirit was sentient. So I ask again how do billions of spirits manage to find their loved ones.
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1. How do you find someone you've lost contact with among the living? (Maybe the spirit realm has a bigger phone book.)

2. Now an easy question for you. You say there are no spirits in the sky. Why would you debate if a spirit is sentient or not, if it doesn't exist?

3. Another simple question if I may; how do you know there isn't a spiritual realm? Your logic is no different than those with opposing views.

4. Typically neither side convinces the other to change their opinion. Which brings up yet another question that should be able to be easily answered. Why do we want everyone to think the same way we do?
 
Sunny said:
Certainly there's more to life. There are non-theistic religions, such as ethical humanism, Unitarianism, and many others, which believe we show our goodness by caring for the planet, fighting for human rights, respecting other people's freedom to believe what is true for them, rejoicing in the beauty of this earth, trying to make life better for the people around us, and so on.

Isn't that enough reason to continue living according to our own ethical values, without needing a "big reward" if we are good boys and girls, and a terrible punishment if we are not? I believe that living a decent life, full of love, humor, friendship, helping those in need, and not trashing the planet, is its own reward. I don't need pie in the sky.

But again, what does all this have to do with whether spirits are roaming the earth, communicating with the living?
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I agree those discussions are a slightly different can of worms, but belong on the same shelf.
 

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