Motorcyclist pulls gun in road rage incident. His target had better aim

[ohioboy]

What's an AM??

Amendment!

What I meant to WG, I knew they had a constitution, but I meant specifically a BoR in it like ours, AUS statutory/common law covers it.

 

[win231]

In my world it does. If I knew that I was in the vicinity of an armed civilian I would back away quietly to the nearest exit. I do the same when confronted by a large snake because I don't know whether or not is is venomous. When it comes to the armed civilian, I don't have any idea of his/her sanity.

Would you "back away quietly to the nearest exit" if you knew you were in the vicinity of an armed police officer? He's also a man with a gun. And you have no idea of his/her sanity either. And we know some police officers are insane........don't we?

 

[Warrigal]

Would you "back away quietly to the nearest exit" if you knew you were in the vicinity of an armed police officer? He's also a man with a gun. And you have no idea of his/her sanity either. And we know some police officers are insane........don't we?

I did say an armed "civilian" which in my mind excludes the military (ours), police officers and armed guards at banks, airports and the like.

I must admit though that when I was in Rome airport the guards/police brandishing nasty looking automatic weapons did unnerve me somewhat. However, at that time terrorists were making it a habit to mow down passengers lined up at the departure desk so I considered the firepower necessary.

 

[horseless carriage]

That's a good question, one which I have no answers.

(I was hoping you could find something on it).

Regardless of, I'm all for it.

Honestly, I was unaware that there was any other way.

For example: Call comes in to dispatch, there's been a home robbery gone wrong, gun shots fired, police show up, two robbers lay dead on the outside of the front stairs of the home, what happened ask the police. Home-owner tells his or her side of the story, police respond, good job Sir/Maam, have a nice night, sorry to bother you.

The above scenario would not unfold here in Canada.

The above statistics explain to me why the British police are against being armed. Their attitude to firearms permeates throughout society. Throughout my life I have only ever seen one firearm and that was in a holster, on the hip of a US airman, at a US military air base.

But if you think gun related crime is shocking in the English speaking world, look at the statistics for Latin America.

 

[Buckeye]

So, you are denying that shooting someone to death in the US is often being called "self-defence" even when the shooter's life isn't in any danger at all? Listen to this:

{shrug} the issue in this thread is the event outlined in the OP. Not some random youtube video. So, are you saying that the driver, with kids in the car, blocked in traffic, was not entitled to defend himself and his children against an armed assailant?

 

[Verisure]

{shrug} the issue in this thread is the event outlined in the OP. Not some random youtube video. So, are you saying that the driver, with kids in the car, blocked in traffic, was not entitled to defend himself and his children against an armed assailant?

I am saying that guns are dangerous & deadly and "self-defence" is a bogus excuse to take someone's life who, most often posed no danger. And whereas "self-defence" is the weasel's way to justify murder after the fact, "Stand your ground" is the premeditated form of it. My link is not "some random video". It is relevant to the very issue. There was no self-defence in his actions whatsoever yet I am told he got off scot-free using self-defence as his excuse.

 

[AnnieA]

...Why would people who shoot at other people not be arrested until statements are taken. ...

An arrest involves the police taking someone into custody to assure a significant restraint on movement ...would've been appropriate in the OP case had the shooter tried to drive on and and refused to give a statement or the gun used was stolen etc. There's no need in the OP case to arrest since the victim who shot in self defense is cooperating fully with police. He's most likely been instructed not to leave the area until the investigation is complete which should be fairly quickly since there were witness. The victim isn't a flight risk and has not committed a crime. Most likely the victim is dealing with personal trauma, trauma to his kids and is fully invested in clearing his name since he's cooperating.

 

[Buckeye]

I am saying that guns are dangerous & deadly and "self-defence" is a bogus excuse to take someone's life who, most often posed no danger. And whereas "self-defence" is the weasel's way to justify murder after the fact, "Stand your ground" is the premeditated form of it. My link is not "some random video". It is relevant to the very issue. There was no self-defence in his actions whatsoever yet I am told he got off scot-free using self-defence as his excuse.

Okay, we have words for folks who think like you do: "the deceased"....

And i did not watch your random video because it has nothing to do with the incident presented in the OP..

 

[AnnieA]

Citizens have the right to defend themselves in Europe also. The difference is in the definition of "self-defense". In the US it can mean almost anything at all while in Europe you don't have the right to shoot someone for insulting you or stepping on your foot or walking on your lawn or stealing your bicycle. We don't call that "self-defense".

The victim in the OP shot because a gun was aimed at him and his children. Trivializing self-defense in this thread makes you look incredibly callous. Can you imagine the trauma the children went through as the perp approached them with a gun and then their father shot to protect them? The victim and his family will suffer the rest of their lives not only because the perp was killed by his hands, but also because their lives were threatened.

 

[Verisure]

Okay, we have words for folks who think like you do: "the deceased"....

.....

There are many words for people like me:
* Experienced
* Educated
* War veteran
* Humanitarian
* Earnest
* Senior citizen

I have been to 4 wars zones in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East, have had guns stuck in my face twice in the US, once in Cambodia, and once in Tanzania. I have been shot at in Vietnam, under nightly rocket attacks in Beirut, one mortar attack in Rhodesia, I was once the target of a barrage of stones in Tehran, and had a packing knife pulled on me in Australia. Through all of that, I was only armed in Vietnam and yet I'm still kicking. I attribute my survival to luck, pshycology, keeping a cool head, and making the right decision at the right time. I don't need a gun and I don't want a gun.

 

[Verisure]

Would you "back away quietly to the nearest exit" if you knew you were in the vicinity of an armed police officer? .......

Absolutely.

 

[Judycat]

Too bad guns had never been invented and they had to use swords.

 

[Buckeye]

There are many words for people like me:
* Experienced
* Educated
* War veteran
* Humanitarian
* Earnest
* Senior citizen

I have been to 4 wars zones in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East, have had guns stuck in my face twice in the US, once in Cambodia, and once in Tanzania. I have been shot at in Vietnam, under nightly rocket attacks in Beirut, one mortar attack in Rhodesia, I was once the target of a barrage of stones in Tehran, and had a packing knife pulled on me in Australia. Through all of that, I was only armed in Vietnam and yet I'm still kicking. I attribute my survival to luck, pshycology, keeping a cool head, and making the right decision at the right time. I don't need a gun and I don't want a gun.

Nice try at deflection, but none of which has to do with the incident in the OP. Contrary to your stated belief, the driver with the kids in the car had every right to defend himself and his children.

 

[Remy]

I'd call that self defense.

 

[win231]

Well now, that's the difference between crime rates in certain countries when compared to others.

In our counties you are welcome to defend yourself, but you'll be staring at four walls with no windows when the law catches up to you.

As I say, I'm 100% for it.

I believe this system in our countries makes people pause and think before they act.

Having a system in place with no consequences isn't a system, and we all see how and where that goes and how it works, or maybe I should say, how it doesn't work.

Yes, if someone intends to harm or kill you and your children, how dare you interfere & survive.

 

[horseless carriage]

Yes, if someone intends to harm or kill you and your children, how dare you interfere & survive.

Reading through this thread, I can see why America's gun culture will always be so. Having the right to bear arms enshrined in the second amendment is not something that they want to see repealed.

Here in the UK gun ownership, as a percentage, is about five percent of the population. In general we never see any weapons, so we don't see, or hear of the kind of shootings that in some parts of the US, is almost a way of life. When Americans argue that they need to defend themselves, those of us who don't witness the gun crime that Americans have to live with, think, "defend yourself against what?"

It was a close call with a gun, although not so close as to actually be a witness, but close enough to spook my wife and I, that made us decide to choose other destinations when taking a break. Actually I might not be quite truthful there, we have quite often sailed on a cruise out of Miami along with a ship full of Americans and not a weapon in sight.

 

[win231]

Reading through this thread, I can see why America's gun culture will always be so. Having the right to bear arms enshrined in the second amendment is not something that they want to see repealed.

Here in the UK gun ownership, as a percentage, is about five percent of the population. In general we never see any weapons, so we don't see, or hear of the kind of shootings that in some parts of the US, is almost a way of life. When Americans argue that they need to defend themselves, those of us who don't witness the gun crime that Americans have to live with, think, "defend yourself against what?"

It was a close call with a gun, although not so close as to actually be a witness, but close enough to spook my wife and I, that made us decide to choose other destinations when taking a break. Actually I might not be quite truthful there, we have quite often sailed on a cruise out of Miami along with a ship full of Americans and not a weapon in sight.

Whatever the "Gun Culture" differences are between countries, I live here & I can't change the culture so I have to live with it as it is (as the saying goes, "It is what it is."
Wherever there are humans, bad things will happen.

 

[Devi]

Hmm. It's not as if non-gun violence doesn't happen in other countries.

Physical violence?
Knives, anyone?
Acid thrown in the face?

Another point: if guns were made illegal in the U.S., do you really suppose that criminals would get rid of theirs?

 

[win231]

Hmm. It's not as if non-gun violence doesn't happen in other countries.

Physical violence?
Knives, anyone?
Acid thrown in the face?

Another point: if guns were made illegal in the U.S., do you really suppose that criminals would get rid of theirs?

Yes, gun haters live in a world of their own making where simple solutions abound. And many people who live in other countries also live in a fairy-tale world & think they have no violence issues & are crime free. The "My country's better than yours" complex.

 

[Verisure]

Nice try at deflection, but none of which has to do with the incident in the OP. Contrary to your stated belief, the driver with the kids in the car had every right to defend himself and his children.

No deflection. Keep your finger on the page as you read. You said, "Okay, we have words for folks who think like you do: the deceased." My reply has everything to do with it.

 

[Verisure]

Another point: if guns were made illegal in the U.S., do you really suppose that criminals would get rid of theirs?

Why is murder illegal? And why can exceeding the speed limit or drunk driving cause you to lose your license? Do you really suppose ...........

 

[Verisure]

Too bad guns had never been invented and they had to use swords.

Fewer deaths, less murder.

 

[Chet]

Reading this thread through a couple of times I see an undercurrent in the exchanges. Those of us that are not from the US do not have a Second Amendment:

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The result of that is that we don't have a gun culture, with trigger happy gun owners taking pot shots at one another.

No offense, but the Bill of Rights was all in response to your King George III and European history up to that time.

 

[Buckeye]

No deflection. Keep your finger on the page as you read. You said, "Okay, we have words for folks who think like you do: the deceased." My reply has everything to do with it.

Nope - this thread is about the situation in the OP - a driver defended himself and his children, and you keep insisting he did not have the right to self defense because guns bad. Had he not defended himself, he would be "the deceased". It ain't about you. Get over yourself.

 

[jerry old]

Nope - this thread is about the situation in the OP - a driver defended himself and his children, and you keep insisting he did not have the right to self defense because guns bad. Had he not defended himself, he would be "the deceased". It ain't about you. Get over yourself.

Huh?