The connection between religion and suicide

[feywon]

This study shows increased risk of suicide in religious people:

Contrary to findings in an earlier sample,(REFERENCE REMOVED) in this study involving 321 depressed and bipolar adults, past suicide attempts were more common among depressed patients with a religious affiliation. Additionally, suicide ideation was more severe among depressed patients who said religion is more important, and among those who attend services more frequently.​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4990512/​

Will have to look at this one closely later too. i can think of psychological explanations for that, including that since most religions (western ones at least) frown on suicide, so a religious person might however much they are 'suffering' be ambivalent about suicide and so manage to kill themselves on first try (or even several tries). Being more prevalent among those who attached great importance to religion and who attended services more often might be due to higher levels of feeling guilt or inadequately faithful for not being able to keep the tenets of the faith well and that adds to whatever other emotional pain they are in.
When i belonged to a group that discussed 'Afterlife' subjects, we had newbies most every week who'd become angry with or lost faith in a traditional religion due to a death of a child. The in a better place platitudes being given by clergy and fellow parishioners was totally insufficient comfort. They turned to people with less 'religious' (particularly the heaven/hell dichotomy) outlooks in the hopes of communicating, being able to 'be sure', their child was safe and well.

 

[Forerunner]

Win, what makes you think that 'we' have not walked in others' shoes? What makes you think that even religious people have not suffered? Some of us have been there, trust me. I refuse to go into details about my medical past; it's no ones business.

It all comes down to having faith. At least to me. Faith, at its core, is deep-rooted in the expectation of good things to come. It goes beyond hope. While much of hope lives in the mind, faith is steeped in the heart and the spirit. While life can be hard at the best of times, faith is the knowledge, deep down inside, that things will get better.

Without faith, we couldn’t expect that things would turn out all right for us no matter what the situation might be.

Faith, then, is just as important as the air we breathe. While the oxygen in the air nourishes the body, faith nourishes the heart and the soul. It’s the energy that courses through every single fiber and cell within our beings. It’s part of every muscle and every strand of thought. It is the fundamental foundation of our existence.

Simply put, the importance of faith cannot be underestimated.

People have moved mountains with their faith. Even when situations seemed dire and bleak, it was their faith that carried them through. There’s little to no explanation for it in the physical realm; it’s the metaphysical fiber that binds us all, carrying each of our deepest wishes and desires. That’s where faith lives.

Unfortunately, some people don’t believe in things that they cannot see. They explain things away due to other causes and effects, failing to find the small miracles in life that exist and work in our favor on a constant basis. There’s an enormous level of importance attributable to having faith in life.

@Lara , thanks for understanding.

If I had to choose between oxygen and faith, I'd choose faith, since this is what saves one.

 

[Lee]

I know someone who lost not just one but all three children to suicide. Religious at the time but lost faith in religion after.

Could be that a factor in those who have religious faith is that they believe in the hereafter and a better life.

 

[win231]

@PamfromTx said in part: "There’s little to no explanation for it in the physical realm; it’s the metaphysical fiber that binds us all, carrying each of our deepest wishes and desires. That’s where faith lives."

While i don't belong to an organized religion, these two sentences resonated deeply with me. The term 'metaphysical fiber' especially: The consciousness, the love.

And it occurs to me that Win231, did not get that you didn't pass judgement on anyone else's choice. You were simply stating how YOU feel about it. And in her response to hm Lara took the same compassionate position--stating how she felt, not judging the choices of others.

Will have to look at this one closely later too. i can think of psychological explanations for that, including that since most religions (western ones at least) frown on suicide, so a religious person might however much they are 'suffering' be ambivalent about suicide and so manage to kill themselves on first try (or even several tries). Being more prevalent among those who attached great importance to religion and who attended services more often might be due to higher levels of feeling guilt or inadequately faithful for not being able to keep the tenets of the faith well and that adds to whatever other emotional pain they are in.
When i belonged to a group that discussed 'Afterlife' subjects, we had newbies most every week who'd become angry with or lost faith in a traditional religion due to a death of a child. The in a better place platitudes being given by clergy and fellow parishioners was totally insufficient comfort. They turned to people with less 'religious' (particularly the heaven/hell dichotomy) outlooks in the hopes of communicating, being able to 'be sure', their child was safe and well.

I mentioned "Guilt" in post #2.

 

[Judycat]

Depression is connected to suicide. I can see a depressed person looking for relief through religion then following through. But I can see a depressed person looking for relief through drug use, marriage, fast driving, criminal behavior then following through too.

 

[Irwin]

I know someone who lost not just one but all three children to suicide. Religious at the time but lost faith in religion after.

Could be that a factor in those who have religious faith is that they believe in the hereafter and a better life.

Aren't they denied eternal rewards if they commit suicide?

It seems like child abuse when parents impose strict religious fundamentalism on their children, which could easily result in severe depression and mental disorders in the children, and the prevalence of suicides.

 

[Warrigal]

This study shows increased risk of suicide in religious people:

Contrary to findings in an earlier sample,(REFERENCE REMOVED) in this study involving 321 depressed and bipolar adults, past suicide attempts were more common among depressed patients with a religious affiliation. Additionally, suicide ideation was more severe among depressed patients who said religion is more important, and among those who attend services more frequently.​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4990512/​

The introduction of the study that you have referenced indicates that this is not a cut and dried answer to this question

The relationship between religion and suicide risk has been an important research question from the earliest days of suicide research.(Durkheim 1897/2010) Over the past ten years, research on this question has produced mixed results. Some studies have reported that rates of suicide attempt and suicidal ideation are lower among persons who have a religious affiliation,

I see that I am not the only one to have picked this up. The scientific method requires findings in any study or experiment to be reproducible to be fully accepted. Contrary findings must be taken into consideration.

 

[FastTrax]

Commiting suicide by train for religious reasons is a new on me. Most of the reported suicides investigated involving railroads appear to be from personal issues that have come to a head within the last 24 hours, employment termination, relationship breakups, domestic disputes, studious young girls who get all A's and just got a B. Most just jump in front of the train, some lay across the rail or grab the 700 VDC third rail and the more limber ones climb up the cat tower and grab the 25 KVAC trolly wire.

Strangely enough the three times I seriously contemplated suicide was.

1. As stated in an earlier thread here when me and my older brother found out our oldest sister was literally beat to death by her lowlife POS pathetic excuse of a husband and when we set out to exact revenge and the police got to him first I was so enraged I had a seizure and passed out and wound up in the very same hospital she had died in. I felt that I failed her for not driving fast enough to beat the cops there. It took me a very very long time to get over that.

2. I had a serious bout of the flu and since I was at a reporting terminal 3 hours from home I couldn't go to a doctor and couldn't risk taking medication fearing a urinalysis in the event of an accident or overspeed violation I started drinking tea by the quart for a solid week and when my accrued time off came I returned home so jacked I couldn't sleep no matter what I did. Now I see why sleep deprivation is a torture regimin.

3. After one too many "man under" incidents I started wierding out and my union delegate said it's time to pull the pin. So after half a century of doing what I would have done for zero pay I gave my revolver to my nephew, packed up my rags and bags and left the "Rotten Apple" and that was that.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Irwin]

Deeply religious people believe in things that in all likelihood, are not true. There is no evidence that there is a god, or that most of the things written about in the bible ever happened, yet their lives revolve around those beliefs. That uncertainty has got to generate quite a bit of anxiety, which is why they are so sensitive to criticism and why they want to impose their beliefs on others.

It's one thing to believe in the supernatural or in magic, but religious fundamentalists want to legislate their beliefs. We see that happening in Afghanistan right now. Women are losing the rights they gained while the U.S. had its puppet government in charge. That's all gone now. We see it happening in the U.S. with religious people taking away women's right to choose whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term, which really only affects poor people. Middle and upper class women can travel to other states to have abortions, but poor people are often stuck, and the more children they have, the less likely they will ever escape poverty.

Holding beliefs and supporting actions that people know are causing a great deal of suffering has to be bad for the psyche, which may cause people to become suicidal. That doesn't apply to all religious people. Many are good, decent people, and I would bet that those aren't the ones killing themselves.

 

[Shalimar]

You raise a related but distinct issue--end of life choices. While some very religious people might see having a DNR, refusing treatment (surgery and/or Chemo) for a cancer as a kind of 'suicide', i see that as a separate thing with different driving forces. i don't know for certain but i suspect people more often make such choices after an at least average length life-span, when the chronic age related body changes are already taking a toll on one's comfort and endurance, sapping energy just dealing with chronic aches and pains.

Recently a very dear friend made such a choice. We'd became friends in Junior year of High School, drifted apart around age 26, reconnected on FB in our early 60's, she was just 2 months younger than me, and except for catching up on the 'meantime' it was almost like no time had passed we talked easily about everything and with our same old empathy and understanding of each other. She had been having strokes for some 4 years, and the last one this spring affected her ability to articulate what she was thinking accurately (tho close relatives and friends could still decipher it). Then in late June she was diagnosed with colon cancer. She moved into a hospice (fortunately her parents left her quite well off and she had used/invested wisely so $$ not an issue) refused any treatment for cancer, only palliative care for symptoms of her health.

The long phone discussion i had with her about all this in late June, was our last. She explained her reasoning, talked some about the 'amazing' life she felt she'd had, how happy she'd been to be able to help people but that she felt it was 'time'. The doctors and a few people tried to argue with her about it, but those of us who knew and loved her, understood. i've had that conversation, as everyone should, especially as we get older, with my kids--they know at what point i would consider life untenable any longer, and would want to be merely kept physically alive. i told her understanding, accepting her choice didn't mean we'd miss her physical presence in the world any less. Monday i got a call from her Executor, she had quit eating in late July, (as my Dad had two weeks before his death at home under our care) and she died on 8/13.

Some might think and/or say that the course she took was suicidal--because doctors might have prolonged her life--but at what cost to her physically and emotionally? i firmly believe that when it comes to that point for any of us we have a right to choose to let nature take its course. i would also ask people who view such choices as covertly 'suicidal' if they pass the same judgement on people who continue to smoke or drink despite doing continuing severe damage to their bodies by doing so. For me they too get to make that choice, tho i've been known to tell those who made the latter choice that i would not sympathize with them over any symptoms, i didn't want to hear complaints from the effects of those substances on their bodies--because they knew the potential consequences of continuing because they were already experiencing some of them .

With respect, not everyone has the capacity to beat substance abuse. It is beyond them, not a choice at all. In my work, I have seen this multiple times. I find it very sad that these lost souls should be shamed for something they

cannot change. Sometimes the pain is so great, one lifetime is not enough to come to terms with it. If my body were not Uber sensitive to such chemicals, I could have travelled that path to extinction very easily, such is the power of

the demons I carry. Pain is not logical, nor sensible. If one feels as though their heart is continuously being ripped out by the roots and served up to them on toast, anything, toxic or not, may well be preferable to that agony.

 

[Warrigal]

Deeply religious people believe in things that in all likelihood, are not true. There is no evidence that there is a god, or that most of the things written about in the bible ever happened, yet their lives revolve around those beliefs. That uncertainty has got to generate quite a bit of anxiety, which is why they are so sensitive to criticism and why they want to impose their beliefs on others.
Not sure whether I fit into your definition of "deeply religious". I was an atheist in my youth, had an epiphany experience and decided to trust, rather than believe. I am not a biblical fundamentalist but find inspiration in some passages. Having made a commitment years ago, I find that I have matured to the point where I can hold faith and doubt in balance. The young need certainty but the old can live without it.
It's one thing to believe in the supernatural or in magic, but religious fundamentalists want to legislate their beliefs. We see that happening in Afghanistan right now. Women are losing the rights they gained while the U.S. had its puppet government in charge. That's all gone now. We see it happening in the U.S. with religious people taking away women's right to choose whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term, which really only affects poor people. Middle and upper class women can travel to other states to have abortions, but poor people are often stuck, and the more children they have, the less likely they will ever escape poverty.
What happened in Afghanistan under the Taliban was intolerable. No excuse for their barbarity and cruelty. I feel the same way about what happened in Stalinist Russia where religion was not the driving force. Plenty more examples in recent history of atrocities; Idi Amin and Pol Pot come readily to mind.
What is going on in US is disturbing. Ignorance dressed up as religion is being used for political purposes. Religion becomes oppressive when it seeks to limit human rights. I belong to a progressive church that speaks up for human rights of minorities. It is an offshoot of a denomination that campaigned for the abolition of the slave trade in Britain.
Holding beliefs and supporting actions that people know are causing a great deal of suffering has to be bad for the psyche, which may cause people to become suicidal. That doesn't apply to all religious people. Many are good, decent people, and I would bet that those aren't the ones killing themselves. I don't know what causes people to self harm but I would hazard a guess that inner turmoil that causes psychic pain is a major cause. Religious and non religious people are probably no different in that regard IMO.

 

[feywon]

With respect, not everyone has the capacity to beat substance abuse. It is beyond them, not a choice at all. In my work, I have seen this multiple times. I find it very sad that these lost souls should be shamed for something they

cannot change. Sometimes the pain is so great, one lifetime is not enough to come to terms with it. If my body were not Uber sensitive to such chemicals, I could have travelled that path to extinction very easily, such is the power of

the demons I carry. Pain is not logical, nor sensible. If one feels as though their heart is continuously being ripped out by the roots and served up to them on toast, anything, toxic or not, may well be preferable to that agony.

Shalimar, my intent was not to judge or shame anyone for a substance abuse issue, but to point out that sometimes the way people choose deal with their pain can also be traumatizing for those who love them. It is particularly difficult for those who started using as self-medication for underlying issues/traumas and never got the psychological help and tools to deal with those things.

i did not say in that response, but i suspect for some families Substance Abuse difficult as it can be, is easier for them--because despite the evidence of how hard dropping such a habit can be, it is an easier thing for THEM to lay blame on the loved one for continuing.