Pfizer scientists off the record: Natural immunity better than vaccine.

AnnieA

AnnieA

Well-known Member
Location
Down South
Went searching for follow up on Israel's recent data showing the superiority of natural immunity and found the link below on an Israeli news site.

Pfizer scientists were filmed by an undercover journalist at a social event and explain to the journalist why natural immunity is better and how they're forbidden to make the info public.

The scientists proved clear explanations of how natural antibodies are better and one states that people who have them should be allowed to prove they do. "Logically though, like, if you have antibodies built up ...like you should be able to prove that you have those built up."

https://www.projectveritas.com/news...ies-are-probably-better-than-the-vaccination/

I've been saying for months that people with test results showing antibodies should have an immunity passport in lieu of a vaccination card ...feel even more strongly about that now. It makes sense scientifically.
 

Why is it that every complaint re: being vaccinated is linked with rabidly right wing sites like the one directly above? Why @AnnieA are you getting your "information" from James O'Keefe? Good grief, what is happening to us as a nation? There is no common ground.
 
Pepper said:
Why is it that every complaint re: being vaccinated is linked with rabidly right wing sites like the one directly above? Why @AnnieA are you getting your "information" from James O'Keefe? Good grief, what is happening to us as a nation? There is no common ground.
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Yes. I know they're controversial. I watched the video and cannot at all see how this one was twisted to deceive. The Pfizer scientists are quite clear and the fact that natural immunity is better than vaccine induced immunity has already been noted by researchers outside the pharmaceutical industry.

Since we're doing BOLD ...

If you've read any of my posts about US news sources, you know I read from both teams, trust none at face value and look for independent sources to confirm or disprove information.

There are no unbiased news sources in the US.
 

Hi, I should have changed the Bold. I copied & pasted & did no editing but will in future. I wasn't yelling at you, I'm just frustrated, @AnnieA. I found this particular link as one that will never give a truthful story. I know his work. I just want more cooperation between the citizens of this nation.
 
Pepper said:
Hi, I should have changed the Bold. I copied & pasted & did no editing but will in future. I wasn't yelling at you, I'm just frustrated, @AnnieA. I found this particular link as one that will never give a truthful story. I know his work. I just want more cooperation between the citizens of this nation.
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Did you watch this video? Wish you would and tell me if you think this one is false other than the surreptitious filming. Does it contain false information?

I just want more cooperation between the citizens of this nation.
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That would be wonderful but isn't going to happen with the two biased sides of our media and our polarized politicians. It will only happen if people start trying to independently dig for the truth in the pile of :poop: we're fed.

.
 
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Natural Immunity sounds good till you consider the fact that first you have survive the illness, and the odds of being a 'long hauler' dealing with the effects for perhaps rest of your life.

i do think people should decide for themselves, and there are medical reason that contraindicate certain vaccines--i delayed my own vaccination by a couple of months looking at info from various sources and weighing the options.

But at least take other precautions to minimize spread should you be exposed. And there's the rub because the same frame of mind that leads some to reject vaccines without looking into specifics and considering their own medical issues is often the same POV that is still dismissing the seriousness of this pandemic.
 
feywon said:
Natural Immunity sounds good till you consider the fact that first you have survive the illness, and the odds of being a 'long hauler' dealing with the effects for perhaps rest of your life.

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My focus is on people who have already survived and can get antibodies tested now for an antibody passport in lieu of the vaccine card. If they're tested and don't have antibodies, then the vaccine comes into play.
 
AnnieA said:
My focus is on people who have already survived and can get antibodies tested now for an antibody passport in lieu of the vaccine card. If they're tested and don't have antibodies, then the vaccine comes into play.
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That makes sense, especially since i seem to recall reading that not every survivor develops antibodies. i remember because it seemed a distinctive feature of this virus.
 
feywon said:
That makes sense, especially since i seem to recall reading that not every survivor develops antibodies. i remember because it seemed a distinctive feature of this virus.
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Yes. Research shows that those with asymptomatic or very mild cases produce fewer antibodies which makes perfect sense in that the immune system of people with mild cases didn't have to mount a strong level of defense.
 
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Sunny said:
This is what happens when politics gets mixed in with medical science.
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Politics only gets into play if you let it.

If you read all sources with skepticism, then look for verifying data to disprove or support content, you're exercising your intelligence and independence against political herding. If you have a list of 'reputable sources' or 'disreputable sources' you are letting intellectually laziness herd you into a polarized position.
 
The most important direct quote from the video by Nick Karl, biochemist. Content is consistent with recent Israeli findings:

"Because what the vaccine is--is like I said that protein--that's just on the outside. So it's just one antibody against one specific part of the virus. When you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against, like, multiple pieces of the virus--and not only just like that outside portion, like, the inside portion, the actual virus. So your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."​
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This is why previously infected people with antibodies as determined by a blood test should be accorded the same rights as people who have been vaccinated.

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Pepper said:
Why is it that every complaint re: being vaccinated is linked with rabidly right wing sites like the one directly above? Why @AnnieA are you getting your "information" from James O'Keefe? Good grief, what is happening to us as a nation? There is no common ground.

Project Veritas​

projectveritas.com​

Description​

Project Veritas is an American far-right activist group founded by James O'Keefe in 2010. The group produces deceptively edited videos of its undercover operations, which use secret recordings in an effort to discredit mainstream media organizations and progressive groups. Wikipedia
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I try to focus on the message not the messenger. Broken clocks are right twice a day. Only need one. Alot of media sources are like top 40 radio on any side ie only popular stories with the same slant.
 
Pepper said:
If the messenger is a liar, that makes the message a lie, too.
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Should be easy to verify. I'm not a fan of video citations especially when the poster doesn't give a summary but videos like this put in context and/or summarized like AnnieA did are a huge start. Veritas is old school gotcha journalism I get that. But did they catch a truth or lie?

Did the messenger lie in this case. Did Pfizer actually issue a denial that this was their employee? Is the message wrong. The virus and vax are only about 2 years old information is changing simply because now there has been time for some study and analyisis.
 
Pepper said:
If the messenger is a liar, that makes the message a lie, too.
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I don't know or care who sets up the clandestine filming or care about any commentary from the host. Never knew a name behind PV until you posted it and care a big fat zero about his personal spin.

What I care about is what the Pfizer scientist--Nick Karl-- in the video said as quoted above. The content of his portion of the video is consistent with recent data independent of Pfizer.
 
The problem is that your "natural immunity" is better ONLY against the original coronavirus. That is the Alpha variant.

Unfortunately, the greatest number of COVID infections are NOT from Alpha. They are from the Delta variant -- and your Alpha immunity WILL NOT HELP you against the Delta variant.

This is why, for example, Ravens QB Lamar Jackson got COVID not just once....but twice. "...As COVID-19 continues to mutate, people may find themselves sick with different strains, Adalja said, a phenomenon that could continue until more people are vaccinated." Lamar Jackson reinfected with COVID 19

This is the problem with coronaviruses. They are aggressive infectors. They will chemically alter themselves into a form (aka variant) that will better infect the victim. Delta, for example, is much more infectious than Alpha COVID-19, both in spreading infection and rapid intensity of symptoms.

Which is why, with each new variant that comes out, the current COVID vaccines are re-tested to see if they will still protect against the newer forms. So far, so good - but eventually like flu vaccines, they will probably need to be "tweaked" to remain effective.
 
AnnieA said:
I don't know or care who sets up the clandestine filming or care about any commentary from the host. Never knew a name behind PV until you posted it and care a big fat zero about his personal spin.

What I care about is what the Pfizer scientist--Nick Karl-- in the video said as quoted above. The content of his portion of the video is consistent with recent data independent of Pfizer.
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Nick Karl Does NOT Work With COVID-19 Vaccines

Project Veritas claimed that Nick is a scientist “who is directly involved in the production of Pfizer’s COVID vaccine“. That’s a lie that can be easily proven.

Nick Karl in the Project Veritas video is actually Nicholas Karl, a biochemist who works at Pfizer’s Pearl River R&D facility.

Not only is Pfizer Pearl River NOT involved in the production of the COVID-19 vaccine, Nick himself is also NOT involved in the production of Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine.

His (now deleted) LinkedIn profile shows that he is part of the Pfizer team developing the direct Luminex assay for COVID-19 and E. coli vaccines.

In other words, his work involves developing and qualifying a test to detect the quantity of antibodies that SARS-CoV-2 and E. coli vaccines produce.

.
 
AnnieA said:
Did you watch this video? Wish you would and tell me if you think this one is false other than the surreptitious filming. Does it contain false information?



That would be wonderful but isn't going to happen with the two biased sides of our media and our polarized politicians. It will only happen if people start trying to independently dig for the truth in the pile of :poop: we're fed.

.
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I watched the video and looked around on the website. I would not trust that source to provide reliable reporting. I agree that the video appears to be heavily edited. In particular I find the bit about the notion about natural immunity against the inside and the outside of the virus to be rather odd because I don't think that is how immunity works.

I am double vaxxed with AstraZenica and even so, while this pandemic lasts I will still be very cautious when out and about. As soon as our government gets around to it, I will carry a certificate of vaccination to save arguments about whether or not I can enter certain premises. It will just be a matter of showing some ID and the certificate on the iPhone. Hubby doesn't have a smart phone so he will need a paper copy.

I don't mind this minor inconvenience if it helps to keep down the infection rate.
 
AnnieA said:
Went searching for follow up on Israel's recent data showing the superiority of natural immunity and found the link below on an Israeli news site.

Pfizer scientists were filmed by an undercover journalist at a social event and explain to the journalist why natural immunity is better and how they're forbidden to make the info public.

The scientists proved clear explanations of how natural antibodies are better and one states that people who have them should be allowed to prove they do. "Logically though, like, if you have antibodies built up ...like you should be able to prove that you have those built up."

https://www.projectveritas.com/news...ies-are-probably-better-than-the-vaccination/

I've been saying for months that people with test results showing antibodies should have an immunity passport in lieu of a vaccination card ...feel even more strongly about that now. It makes sense scientifically.




.
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Project Veritas lied!!! having a wide range of antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 does not mean that the immunity is better.

That’s why Nick actually said “not better, but more antibodies“.

.
 
Shero said:
...In other words, his work involves developing and qualifying a test to detect the quantity of antibodies that SARS-CoV-2 and E. coli vaccines produce.

.
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Then Nick Karl--the biochemist who works (possibly past tense now) at Pfizer’s Pearl River R&D facility-- has exceptional understanding of immunity and antibodies since he is/was developing testing for them for a major pharmaceutical company. Hope the fact that his LinkedIn profile is down doesn't mean Pfizer fired him for the conversation in the video, but I imagine he violated a non-disclosure agreement.
 
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Lethe200 said:
The problem is that your "natural immunity" is better ONLY against the original coronavirus. That is the Alpha variant.

Unfortunately, the greatest number of COVID infections are NOT from Alpha. They are from the Delta variant -- and your Alpha immunity WILL NOT HELP you against the Delta variant.

...
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Real world data of 16,000 people followed in Israel show natural immunity is more protective than vaccines against the delta variant. Previously infected study subjects were ill prior to 28 Feb 2021 -- months before delta infections were common.

Here's a good explaination of the findings in laymen's terms. Link to thread with more information about the Israeli data. Here's the link to the study: full text pdf

Excerpts:

The results indicate that those who were previously infected by the novel coronavirus had developed better immunity and also faced reduced risk of reinfection, symptomatic disease and hospitalisation due to an infection of the delta variant – versus people who had received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine but hadn’t had COVID-19.​

“... those vaccinated are still at a 5.96-fold increased risk for breakthrough infection and at a 7.13-fold increased risk for symptomatic disease compared to those previously infected. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalisation compared to those who were previously infected.”​
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An addition to the quoted findings above the study also found previous infection followed by one dose of the Pfizer vaccine to be very protective against delta.
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Shero said:
...having a wide range of antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 does not mean that the immunity is better. ...
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It appears to to be. Excerpt of the discussion section at the conclusion of the Israeli study of 16,000 people referenced above.

Excerpt:

The advantageous protection afforded by natural immunity that this analysis demonstrates could be explained by the more extensive immune response to the SARS-CoV-2 proteins than that generated by the anti-spike protein immune activation conferred by the vaccine. However, as a correlate of protection is yet to be proven including the role of B-Cell2and T-cell immunity, this remains a hypothesis.​
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Natural immunity confers protection beyond the one spike protein targeted by mRNA vaccines.

@Warrigal ...you questioned the "inside of the virus" bit from the biochemist above. That's the B-Cell and T-Cell immunity referenced in the indented section above which goes beyond the current outside spike protein focus. B-Cell and T-Cell immunity are hypothetical only because these researches haven't studied them in this population. It's a sound premise backed by other recent research findings. A good research study will always conclude with suggestions for further study.
 

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