Abortion - the times may be a changin...

Reading through this thread, I saw little reference to rape/incest. In the recently passed Texas law, a 12-year old raped by her stepdad, brother, neighbor has to carry to term. During the pregnancy, she may be murdered in a school shooting because the same folks who write laws preventing her from ending the pregnancy won't address gun laws.
If forced to give birth, she can't afford rent or groceries or health care for her or her child. Is the child stripped from her screaming hands in the birth room and put in foster care?
Should she keep the child, she's not old enough to go to work to earn a living wage. Heck... if she can't continue her education, she may never be able to earn a living wage.
I am NOT a proponent of abortion as "birth control". The discussion must be much more involved than that. And, the current political system where people of wealth with campaigns paid for by evangelical "goody two-shoes" don't want to have that deeper discussion.
 

Patch said:
Reading through this thread, I saw little reference to rape/incest. In the recently passed Texas law, a 12-year old raped by her stepdad, brother, neighbor has to carry to term. During the pregnancy, she may be murdered in a school shooting because the same folks who write laws preventing her from ending the pregnancy won't address gun laws.
If forced to give birth, she can't afford rent or groceries or health care for her or her child. Is the child stripped from her screaming hands in the birth room and put in foster care?
Should she keep the child, she's not old enough to go to work to earn a living wage. Heck... if she can't continue her education, she may never be able to earn a living wage.
I am NOT a proponent of abortion as "birth control". The discussion must be much more involved than that. And, the current political system where people of wealth with campaigns paid for by evangelical "goody two-shoes" don't want to have that deeper discussion.
Click to expand...
To take this one more step, even if this child's child was adopted out into a loving family, DNA testing is as simple as spitting in a tube and getting to a post office.

Imagine the horror of that child when the light dawned that all close relatives were also related to each other. Or that Dad is a serial rapist.

Don't even want to know how THAT kind of information would affect someone's self-perception.

Lets be clear: Abortion laws are meant to control women. If they were truly focused on protecting "precious children" those at-risk children would be treated as precious by so-called pro lifers after they were born.

If PLs want a cause to rally around, how about our horrific foster care system? Talk about broken. And p.s. "precious children" in foster care are already here!
 
StarSong said:
Lets be clear: Abortion laws are meant to control women.
Click to expand...


difficult to argue with that: https://www.google.com/search?q=abo...IAawDkgEDMi4ymAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz


just like military draft laws were meant to control men



Ironically, many of a certain political persuasion say government has no right to dictate to them how to conduct their lives. But that same government has the right to restrict their reproductive rights and to conscript others for needless (but profitable) wars.
 
StarSong said:
To take this one more step, even if this child's child was adopted out into a loving family, DNA testing is as simple as spitting in a tube and getting to a post office.

Imagine the horror of that child when the light dawned that all close relatives were also related to each other. Or that Dad is a serial rapist.

Don't even want to know how THAT kind of information would affect someone's self-perception.

Lets be clear: Abortion laws are meant to control women. If they were truly focused on protecting "precious children" those at-risk children would be treated as precious by so-called pro lifers after they were born.

If PLs want a cause to rally around, how about our horrific foster care system? Talk about broken. And p.s. "precious children" in foster care are already here!
Click to expand...
It's not the kid's fault how it was conceived, still the little guy should be given a chance of breath, fresh air and sunshine.
 
Patch said:
Reading through this thread, I saw little reference to rape/incest. In the recently passed Texas law, a 12-year old raped by her stepdad, brother, neighbor has to carry to term. During the pregnancy, she may be murdered in a school shooting because the same folks who write laws preventing her from ending the pregnancy won't address gun laws.
If forced to give birth, she can't afford rent or groceries or health care for her or her child. Is the child stripped from her screaming hands in the birth room and put in foster care?
Should she keep the child, she's not old enough to go to work to earn a living wage. Heck... if she can't continue her education, she may never be able to earn a living wage.
I am NOT a proponent of abortion as "birth control". The discussion must be much more involved than that. And, the current political system where people of wealth with campaigns paid for by evangelical "goody two-shoes" don't want to have that deeper discussion.
Click to expand...
Well maybe we should be thinking of ways of support to these people then? Poor people shouldn't have to kill their children just because they are poor imo. Sounds so inhuman to do that. I'm not a 'lefty' but even I can see that finances and killing little babies should not be comparative.
 
Alice November said:
I am against legalized abortion because it sets a precident in law that it is ok to kill innocent human life, and I disagree with killing humans.
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Your beliefs are fine except don't impose your thoughts on others. I won't argue your points (which I disagree with) I just want, as a matter of law, that folks like you can't inflict and restrict others--the majority--who don't see it your way.
 
StarSong said:
Lets be clear: Abortion laws are meant to control women.
Click to expand...
My question would be, what about the silent "little women" in the womb that abortion laws are meant to protect? I would personally choose to be the one to die by that surgical knife if I had to in order for my girls to live because they have more life ahead of them and every right to live.
 
Pepper said:
Your beliefs are fine except don't impose your thoughts on others. I won't argue your points (which I disagree with) I just want, as a matter of law, that folks like you can't inflict and restrict others--the majority--who don't see it your way.
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I'm not imposing my thoughts on others any more than you are.
The law should apply to the unborn child as a potential human, who left to survive in its mothers womb inmost cases becomes a human child.
Its not me inflicting anything on anyone, you need to rethink your criticism of me personally I believe. Sorry Peppe if it seems directed at you , it is just I am using logic, not personal infliction.
 
Lara said:
My question would be, what about the silent "little women" in the womb that abortion laws are meant to protect? I would personally choose to be the one to die by that surgical knife if I had to in order for my girls to live because they have more life ahead of them and every right to live.
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But you can't really speak for each and every little girl waiting to be born from the womb. If only we could hear them speak about whether they desire death or to live life out. That would be better imo, if we could hear it from them before they are killed.
 
If you're using the law against a woman's right to choose abortion, I'm sorry @Alice November, but I am against that.

However! My own dearest, best friend for 50 years and I disagree on most social issues. We love each other anyway.

So, while I can't applaud your view I'm glad you're here to talk with! :)
 
oldiebutgoody said:
difficult to argue with that: https://www.google.com/search?q=abortion+laws+were+meant+to+to+control+women&rlz=1CAKSOU_enUS772US772&sxsrf=AOaemvIWIXc_PX0ZJeqRtgBVA1XHwRvkSA:1638891491691&ei=43-vYeOvKcqjptQP3OKfyAY&ved=0ahUKEwijrb_JgtL0AhXKkYkEHVzxB2kQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=abortion+laws+were+meant+to+to+control+women&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6BwgAEEcQsAM6BwgjELACECdKBAhBGABQigVYpiJg0ihoAXABeACAAX-IAawDkgEDMi4ymAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz


just like military draft laws were meant to control men



Ironically, many of a certain political persuasion say government has no right to dictate to them how to conduct their lives. But that same government has the right to restrict their reproductive rights and to conscript others for needless (but profitable) wars.
Click to expand...


Off topic:

While a change in the abortion laws will be used to control women, there is at least one bit of good news for women - they will remain exempt from the military draft laws used to enslave men:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/ndaa-women-draft-dropped-523829
 
Alice November said:
I'm not imposing my thoughts on others any more than you are.
The law should apply to the unborn child as a potential human, who left to survive in its mothers womb inmost cases becomes a human child.
Its not me inflicting anything on anyone, you need to rethink your criticism of me personally I believe. Sorry Peppe if it seems directed at you , it is just I am using logic, not personal infliction.
Click to expand...
Every ovulation and ejaculation represents potential humans. IUDs are essentially little abortion machines. Should morning-after pills be made illegal?

With nearly 8 billion on the planet already, at what point will enough be enough? 20 billion? 30?

As for comparing abortion laws to the US military draft, please note that the draft ended in 1973.
Interestingly enough, the military learned that unwilling (draftees) generally made a less effective fighting force than a volunteer army. Why do our nation's leaders refuse to apply that same wisdom to the quality of parenthood by those who choose and plan it versus those who are traumatized by the life change it represents?
 
Alice November said:
Many fathers who's children were aborted feel very diferently than you do.

So, as a granddad, it would be perfectly ok for your daughter and mate to nix your grandson's life before it started?
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Being pro-life should be more than just being anti-abortion, about being concerned about the rights of the unborn child but not the long-term needs of the born child. (Mostly male) legislatures that pass abortion restrictions should pass concurrent laws that provide long-term assistance to the mother and her child. Not to do so is being hypocritical.

The pro-life movement and the pro-choice movement should be able to find common ground in providing universal, effective contraception.

There are local pregnancy centers that provide emotional, financial, and other assistance to the mother and her child, both before and after birth. If a person is concerned about the sanctity of life, then provide your time (as my late, beloved wife did) and money (as I do, in honor of my wife) to these centers.
 


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