A Question for Anti-Vaxxers

palides2021 said:
I've been avoiding vaccine threads on this site because arguments have occurred. So please don't think I'm an anti-vaxxer, but like others here I also feel it's my choice and I have been worried about the safety of these vaccines as our family tends to have clotting issues. A cousin of mine was in ICU after she got vaccinated as they found a blood clot in her brain. I don't go around spreading it. I've been extremely careful due to health issues and always have used the mask from day 1.

I wanted to share a scientific article I read today about natural immunity from Covid. There are many more articles on this topic if you do a google scholar search:

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101


This article talks about natural immunity if one has had Covid and how long this immunity lasts. I had Covid while unvaccinated, and so did my family members. We all survived. Only one was hospitalized (my mom). According to this article, I should have even better immunity than the vaccinated people. But this never gets discussed in the media. It's big taboo not to mention all these people that have become naturally immune to COVID. Why are these people not discussed? Political agendas and mandates should not be a part of managing our health. We are ultimately responsible for our bodies.

I may be wrong, and please correct me if I am (PM), but please do not attack me or others because of the choices we have made. :)
Click to expand...
The "Experts" will never discuss natural immunity in a positive light; it would obviously interfere with their "Everybody should get vaccinated" & that would cut profits - from both vaccines, never-ending boosters and future drugs. That's the reason for the exaggerated infection & mortality rates. Without fear, they won't sell.
 

fmdog44 said:
Omicron is spreading at a rate of 2 days versus eleven days for the Delta. I never thought anything could spread that fast.
Click to expand...

The news reports are saying that the numbers infected by Omicron are doubling every 3 or 4 days. If that is true, and this variant continues to spread at such a pace, it may be only a matter of another month, or two, before the majority of the population is exposed to this virus. Then, we will have a pretty good picture of just how effective the vaccines are, and how the unvaccinated are being impacted.
 
I can't answer for the anti-vaxxers, but I can answer for the vaxxers. I've had both my Moderna shots and the booster.

I had Covid in February 2020. My fitness, according to my doctor, is perfect. I work out frequently and eat healthy so I guess I have the "natural immunity" that everyone likes to mention in Covid threads. I still developed severe congestion and a cough that took me months to get rid of. I had about a day of fever. My partner, who is 8 years younger and never even gets a cold, also caught it and coughed for months. I'm not particularly worried about dying from it, but I don't want to go through the discomfort again.

I've already seen all the answers as to anti-vax on this forum. My cousin is anti-vax and so is her 90 year-old Evangelical mother. This was a political decision. Her mother was never vaccinated and continued to attend her church. She was just diagnosed with it, so I can only wish her the best.
 

Last edited:
Don M. said:
The news reports are saying that the numbers infected by Omicron are doubling every 3 or 4 days. If that is true, and this variant continues to spread at such a pace, it may be only a matter of another month, or two, before the majority of the population is exposed to this virus. Then, we will have a pretty good picture of just how effective the vaccines are, and how the unvaccinated are being impacted.
Click to expand...
And we may finally, at some point, reach herd immunity. Fingers crossed.
 
dseag2 said:
I can't answer for the anti-vaxxers, but I can answer for the vaxxers. I've had both my Moderna shots and the booster.

I had Covid in February 2020. My fitness, according to my doctor, is perfect. I work out frequently and eat healthy so I guess I have the "natural immunity" that everyone likes to mention in Covid threads. I still developed severe congestion and a cough that took me months to get rid of. I had about a day of fever. My partner, who is 8 years younger and never even gets a cold, also caught it and coughed for months. I'm not particularly worried about dying from it, but I don't want to go through the discomfort again.

I've already seen all the answers as to anti-vax on this forum. My cousin is anti-vax and so is her 90 year-old Evangelical mother. This was a political decision. Her mother was never vaccinated and continued to attend her church. She was just diagnosed with it, so I can only wish her the best.
Click to expand...
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who reaches 90 isn't going to die of anything except age - regardless of the "official" noted cause.
Life is a game where nobody gets out alive; we all gotta die of somethin'.
 
Jeni said:
I agree labeling people or worse yet making overly broad assumptions about people............ shows someone overly upset about other peoples business.
Regardless of a persons choice ..........once name calling starts........discussion is over.

Even if 62%......... i see these percentages rise and fall depending on angle of story coupled with those who have natural immunity ( go ahead and warn people that wears off... much like the shots) we should be in a good % .........but instead of saying ok.........
it seems as if some want everyone FORCED into the same decision they made ..... why ?

People would be thrilled at a 62% for flu shots not trying to identify every last person to brow beat into compliance.
Not trying to force private business to be enforcers and trying to FIRE or limit a persons ability to support themselves....... Does this seem rational?

I know many who took the shot as a patriotic thing or one for the team ...rah rah.......... but will NOT take continual boosters cause it did not work as well as sold. I wonder what those folks will be labeled ? ......... a smaller threat but still not on board need to be reprogrammed


Do not say no vaccine is perfect...... blah blah
I KNOW but other vaccines were not PUSHED by companies will pay you $$$$ ... some states gave people free weed if they got the shot...... this is not NORMAL reaction to entice people it is OVER the top.
Click to expand...
or free tacos & tickets to NFL & NBA games.
 
Tommy said:
I'm fully vaccinated and "boosted", but it's a decision I made for myself based on my own risk analysis. "Because everybody else is doing it" is a very poor basis for making almost any decision.

In the US, our commercial and public media sources are hopelessly biased, and at this time there's great (and justifiable) mistrust of government. Without straying into politics, I'll just say that I think that, along with social media "churning", has a lot to do with people's responses to vaccination.
Click to expand...
Here, here Tommy!!
 
Skyking said:
If there were a vaccination with 98% efficacy, and they refused it, then yes. Unfortunately we don't have them. However, for this COMMUNICABLE pandemic we aren't asking people to change their entire lifestyle, just take a free vaccination to protect themselves as well as others who can't take it.
Click to expand...
Please explain how it is FREE? ..... seems like no one knows what the word means. Especially in the US.
So a lifestyle choice that COSTS us all in healthcare gets a pass ?
even lifestyle choice GREATLY effects a persons ability to recover from this virus?

Look at the insane profits by pharma on this shot and boosters and perhaps tweaking for any newly named variant .....
Oh............ that is right government spent TAXPAYER money (FREE MONEY) ...........as government does not produce or manufacture things for a profit.
So smile :)taxpayers will pay as long as they have a JOB to be taxed on.... so lets FIRE their ass for no shots or right amount of shots or whatever we add tomorrow ...........and vaxxed can pay more seems to be the plan.

So all these "freebies".................. Taxpayers are paying regardless of their own personal vaccine status.
Their kids/ grandkids and future generations will be paying far after the pandemic is gone if they ever let it go away. Never let a good crisis go......

some folks just want to fight........... not DISCUSS vaccines and or mandates etc.

There are many questions that are simply NOT being answered and the devil is always in the details......
Some got boosters ......others chose No ..........so now the GOAL changed again...... that without a booster you do not meet the requirements....how many BOOSTERS will that be? ..................... do NOT count on just one.

Will the Mandates be enforced FOREVER or until virus is under control ? (see above never let a good crisis go)
Where is the goal post...... Oh..... that is correct we KEEP moving it ..
we still have some politicians saying vaccinated cant get sick or pass it even if that is not TRUE.

What is the % needed for so called herd immunity?....... no one will commit to a % cause we are told there is no such thing anymore.

People are writing and Changing rules as we go then........ when things go wrong...... it is perhaps an employers fault ........not that OSHA or any other regulatory group seems to be writing rules on an etch a sketch.

Example : ever changing ideas of how private medical Vaccine information is collected or stored and whom has access.
At the beginning people said a photo of vaccine card should work now they want a hard copy ....... Vaccine data was NOT (at first ) to be filed with basic employment file but a different database or hard copy storage for added security for privacy concerns etc. that may have changed since first idea......
Setting up this separate and secure system .............. and being ready for any fine/ penalty or lawsuits for a mistake in safeguarding info .............because the rules are fluid and change per Poll #s............ is of course..... is FREE for business too🤣

So many seem willing to drop rules/ laws etc designed to protect people because a Virus. Will that be written into future laws/ or requirements ( IGNORE IF IN A PANDEMIC).
1 Door dash will bring you wine or spirits is every driver OVER 21 to be able to carry alcohol? ( states vary)
When friend was an 18 yr old waitress, She was not allowed to carry hard alcohol to a table just turned order into bar and the bartender transported unless server was 21. (may vary per location /state)

2 Many third party delivery services like door dash etc are exempt from having a food handlers card like every restaurant and often grocery store employee MUST have. DiRECT Dominos drivers went through food handlers course .... uber eats/ door dash etc nope..... guess food illness knows what car they are in.
So if a food illness occurs ( some are Fatal) do you know where bacteria grew..... in a supply chain.... at restaurant ... or sitting in a car one of 4 other orders being delivered not being held at correct serving temp.
Perhaps we can just say hey sorry about that we will take this rule back to being enforced after covid....

3 A lady i know just had this conversation last night.......... a cashier selling alcohol or cigarettes in my state can be personally fined up to 50K as well as their employer for selling to a minor ...
So checking ID NOW.......you cannot ask them to remove their mask cause Covid.....
so if based on a guess..... does fines/ rules apply? or are your hands tied? should stores quit selling until pandemic is OVER? you cannot see enough of face to make a positive ID
Or perhaps it is really not important to have laws for minors anymore as websites just ask you to click to confirm you are over certain age to buy or view items.....
 
Jeni said:
Please explain how it is FREE? ..... seems like no one knows what the word means. Especially in the US.
So a lifestyle choice that COSTS us all in healthcare gets a pass ?
even lifestyle choice GREATLY effects a persons ability to recover from this virus?

Look at the insane profits by pharma on this shot and boosters and perhaps tweaking for any newly named variant .....
Oh............ that is right government spent TAXPAYER money (FREE MONEY) ...........as government does not produce or manufacture things for a profit.
So smile :)taxpayers will pay as long as they have a JOB to be taxed on.... so lets FIRE their ass for no shots or right amount of shots or whatever we add tomorrow ...........and vaxxed can pay more seems to be the plan.

So all these "freebies".................. Taxpayers are paying regardless of their own personal vaccine status.
Their kids/ grandkids and future generations will be paying far after the pandemic is gone if they ever let it go away. Never let a good crisis go......

some folks just want to fight........... not DISCUSS vaccines and or mandates etc.

There are many questions that are simply NOT being answered and the devil is always in the details......
Some got boosters ......others chose No ..........so now the GOAL changed again...... that without a booster you do not meet the requirements....how many BOOSTERS will that be? ..................... do NOT count on just one.

Will the Mandates be enforced FOREVER or until virus is under control ? (see above never let a good crisis go)
Where is the goal post...... Oh..... that is correct we KEEP moving it ..
we still have some politicians saying vaccinated cant get sick or pass it even if that is not TRUE.

What is the % needed for so called herd immunity?....... no one will commit to a % cause we are told there is no such thing anymore.

People are writing and Changing rules as we go then........ when things go wrong...... it is perhaps an employers fault ........not that OSHA or any other regulatory group seems to be writing rules on an etch a sketch.

Example : ever changing ideas of how private medical Vaccine information is collected or stored and whom has access.
At the beginning people said a photo of vaccine card should work now they want a hard copy ....... Vaccine data was NOT (at first ) to be filed with basic employment file but a different database or hard copy storage for added security for privacy concerns etc. that may have changed since first idea......
Setting up this separate and secure system .............. and being ready for any fine/ penalty or lawsuits for a mistake in safeguarding info .............because the rules are fluid and change per Poll #s............ is of course..... is FREE for business too🤣

So many seem willing to drop rules/ laws etc designed to protect people because a Virus. Will that be written into future laws/ or requirements ( IGNORE IF IN A PANDEMIC).
1 Door dash will bring you wine or spirits is every driver OVER 21 to be able to carry alcohol? ( states vary)
When friend was an 18 yr old waitress, She was not allowed to carry hard alcohol to a table just turned order into bar and the bartender transported unless server was 21. (may vary per location /state)

2 Many third party delivery services like door dash etc are exempt from having a food handlers card like every restaurant and often grocery store employee MUST have. DiRECT Dominos drivers went through food handlers course .... uber eats/ door dash etc nope..... guess food illness knows what car they are in.
So if a food illness occurs ( some are Fatal) do you know where bacteria grew..... in a supply chain.... at restaurant ... or sitting in a car one of 4 other orders being delivered not being held at correct serving temp.
Perhaps we can just say hey sorry about that we will take this rule back to being enforced after covid....

3 A lady i know just had this conversation last night.......... a cashier selling alcohol or cigarettes in my state can be personally fined up to 50K as well as their employer for selling to a minor ...
So checking ID NOW.......you cannot ask them to remove their mask cause Covid.....
so if based on a guess..... does fines/ rules apply? or are your hands tied? should stores quit selling until pandemic is OVER? you cannot see enough of face to make a positive ID
Or perhaps it is really not important to have laws for minors anymore as websites just ask you to click to confirm you are over certain age to buy or view items.....
Click to expand...
👏👏
 
Jeni said:
so does that apply to people who do other things and take up care ?
Or as often happens some think it only applies to this situation ..

Examples:
Smokers who have lung or heart issues?
alcoholics insert issue here ...... Obese and any number of ailments?
Click to expand...
Jeni, look at the numbers. In spite of all the smokers, alcoholics, and obese people, how often do hospitals all over the world fill up with them, all at the same time, leaving no room for anyone else?

If that were happening, you might have a point. But I've never heard of it happening. Have you?

This is a rapidly spreading pandemic. Putting it in the same category as chronic, ancient problems that have always unfortunately been with us, and probably always will, is ridiculous.
 
Bottom line is, you can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Do the right thing and don't be swayed by false arguments going down rabbit holes of foolishness. Your choice people, you can either live with it or maybe die because of it. Choices have consequences and 98% OF THE UNVACCINATED ARE FINDING OUT THE HARD WAY. What do you think the one dying on an incubator would tell you if they could even talk? I'm glad I didn't take the shot? Do what you want, I'll take my chances, I'm vaccinated and proud to be part of the solution.
 
Skyking said:
Bottom line is, you can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Do the right thing and don't be swayed by false arguments going down rabbit holes of foolishness. Your choice people, you can either live with it or maybe die because of it. Choices have consequences and 98% OF THE UNVACCINATED ARE FINDING OUT THE HARD WAY. What do you think the one dying on an incubator would tell you if they could even talk? I'm glad I didn't take the shot? Do what you want, I'll take my chances, I'm vaccinated and proud to be part of the solution.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with living in a world of your own design if it makes you feel good all over.
 
It's the part about protecting others that's important to me. As an example that is personal to me: my widowed sister, who is 85 years old, can't visit her daughter because the daughter refuses to get vaccinated and my sister is at high risk because of life-long asthma, cancer (fortunately in remission for now), and a couple of other medical conditions. This breaks my heart. No Christmas or Thanksgiving celebrations together, no birthday celebrations together for the grandkids or great grandkids. I'm vaccinated and boosted not just for myself, but out of consideration for the people around me.

Yes, people who have been vaccinated can still get it and still transmit it to others, but it is far less likely to happen if everyone is vaccinated. And it's in the unvaccinated that the mutations generally appear because it stays in the body longer and is more virulent. Reports indicate the Omicron variant likely developed in someone with an autoimmune condition and because the individual was not able to fight the virus as well, it stayed in his body for a long time and mutated.
 
Flaneuse said:
It's the part about protecting others that's important to me. As an example that is personal to me: my widowed sister, who is 85 years old, can't visit her daughter because the daughter refuses to get vaccinated and my sister is at high risk because of life-long asthma, cancer (fortunately in remission for now), and a couple of other medical conditions. This breaks my heart. No Christmas or Thanksgiving celebrations together, no birthday celebrations together for the grandkids or great grandkids. I'm vaccinated and boosted not just for myself, but out of consideration for the people around me.

Yes, people who have been vaccinated can still get it and still transmit it to others, but it is far less likely to happen if everyone is vaccinated. And it's in the unvaccinated that the mutations generally appear because it stays in the body longer and is more virulent. Reports indicate the Omicron variant likely developed in someone with an autoimmune condition and because the individual was not able to fight the virus as well, it stayed in his body for a long time and mutated.
Click to expand...
All theories. Nothing certain.
That's why medicine is called a "Practice."
 
win231 said:
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who reaches 90 isn't going to die of anything except age - regardless of the "official" noted cause.
Life is a game where nobody gets out alive; we all gotta die of somethin'.
Click to expand...
I get you, but my cousin showed me a video of her sliding down a slide with her grandkids. She has been healthy and self-sufficient so far, so who am I to say that it is her time to die? We should all live as long as we can as long as we are in good health.
 
dseag2 said:
I get you, but my cousin showed me a video of her sliding down a slide with her grandkids. She has been healthy and self-sufficient so far, so who am I to say that it is her time to die? We should all live as long as we can as long as we are in good health.
Click to expand...
When someone says something like "We all gotta go sometime," or "We aren't designed to live forever," or Benjamin Franklin's quote:
"Do not try to live forever; you will not succeed," it is often misinterpreted as "Who cares....he/she is gonna die, anyway, so why bother?"
It's not how it was intended. That's reading something into a statement that wasn't there.
No one would disagree that we should all live as long as we can as long as we are in good health.
 
Devi said:
My understanding of "natural immunity" is that someone has gotten Covid, then recovered from it.
Click to expand...
The immune system can recognize and fight against all 4 components of covid, not only the spike protein template. It has faced the real attack and survived. There is likely even more protection than that, that current science books do not understand.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top