What would have happened if a U.S. pilot had been captured and burned alive?

I don't know a thing about talking points. Is this when the screwed up GOP sends you a dun?

In the good ole days some country kills an American and war was declared.

Now it's ignored when a country kills an American.

Pearl Harbor was an attack on America and of course war was declared. The advisers you mentioned were part of the very beginning of the Vietnam (under Ike's MAAG program) and were only the vanguard of our entry into full scale "police action" . We have never declared war due to AN AMERICAN being killed (as the original subject was) as you stated!
 

Years back there were two political parties in the US. As an election drew near they would stand aside of each other an rail about just anything. After the election we would then have some co operative activities between the two parties as they continued to run our government as best they could.

Now we have two political parties in the US. For some reason we now have hateful arguments most of the time or all the time. This is pure BS among the many real politicians and also among those followers that once knew enough to allow the government to take its course and try to govern a bit. All this hateful acdtivity really seems to have started in recent years too. Probably starting in the 1970's and slowly getting worse each year. In the recent 10 years we have seen some of the worst governments and some of the nastiest of all government activities for the people to have to see and live with. Far too much has been taken from the Congress and is being run outside the Constitutional ways of our government. We need to get our government back into its proper format and start operating through our Congress as the Constitution tells us. All these special groups operating independently are wrong, to say the least.

Some in today's notes say they want no one overseas doing a war or after a war is over. Well, after WWII made possible by the peace loving folks prior to Hitlers actions, we had our troops and many of the other nations troops stay in Europe and Japan for several years. This gave those countries time to adjust to a peaceful way of living and to have tried to adjust to elected governments over the relics of kingdom's. Things went pretty well for many years but now again we have problems with the stay at home folks and their mystic wisdom of being international wimps.

Nothing wrong with letting others know strong wills and likely repercussions for not being peaceful themselves. A strong presence is much better than a few wimps playing co operative with others that have no kindness in their thinking. But fear of being punished does get them to think a bit about what they are thinking of, or actually, doing.
 
Bob, I have voted every election since I was eligible. I am kind of a political/news Junkie. I must say I too, have not seen the United States so divided in my time. Republicans want to blame Democrats and vice versa. I don't like seeing the big money guys or lobbyists being able to control voting but, I confess I know of no solution that both parties would agree to. It is with our political climate in mind that I am glad I am closer to the end than the beginning..
 

Bob, I have voted every election since I was eligible. I am kind of a political/news Junkie. I must say I too, have not seen the United States so divided in my time. Republicans want to blame Democrats and vice versa. I don't like seeing the big money guys or lobbyists being able to control voting but, I confess I know of no solution that both parties would agree to. It is with our political climate in mind that I am glad I am closer to the end than the beginning..

And it doesn't appear that the GOP is willing to "get the money out of politics" There have been bills brought up to end Citizens United that have met with GOP opposition. Why would THEY want to get the BIG money out of politics when they are the beneficiaries of most of it.
 
And it doesn't appear that the GOP is willing to "get the money out of politics" There have been bills brought up to end Citizens United that have met with GOP opposition. Why would THEY want to get the BIG money out of politics when they are the beneficiaries of most of it.

A major dividing factor.
 
Years back there were two political parties in the US. As an election drew near they would stand aside of each other an rail about just anything. After the election we would then have some co operative activities between the two parties as they continued to run our government as best they could.

Now we have two political parties in the US. For some reason we now have hateful arguments most of the time or all the time. This is pure BS among the many real politicians and also among those followers that once knew enough to allow the government to take its course and try to govern a bit. All this hateful acdtivity really seems to have started in recent years too. Probably starting in the 1970's and slowly getting worse each year. In the recent 10 years we have seen some of the worst governments and some of the nastiest of all government activities for the people to have to see and live with. Far too much has been taken from the Congress and is being run outside the Constitutional ways of our government. We need to get our government back into its proper format and start operating through our Congress as the Constitution tells us. All these special groups operating independently are wrong, to say the least.

Some in today's notes say they want no one overseas doing a war or after a war is over. Well, after WWII made possible by the peace loving folks prior to Hitlers actions, we had our troops and many of the other nations troops stay in Europe and Japan for several years. This gave those countries time to adjust to a peaceful way of living and to have tried to adjust to elected governments over the relics of kingdom's. Things went pretty well for many years but now again we have problems with the stay at home folks and their mystic wisdom of being international wimps.

Nothing wrong with letting others know strong wills and likely repercussions for not being peaceful themselves. A strong presence is much better than a few wimps playing co operative with others that have no kindness in their thinking. But fear of being punished does get them to think a bit about what they are thinking of, or actually, doing.

Well said Bob, I especially thought that last paragraph was "dead on"!! I like to give credit where credit is do, and if a Democrat says something I can learn from, I also love their posts. Like when we discussed the pipeline, I heard lots of good stuff from Dems. I don't like hate mongers on either side, yeah, zero sign of kindness in their thinking.
 
And it doesn't appear that the GOP is willing to "get the money out of politics" There have been bills brought up to end Citizens United that have met with GOP opposition. Why would THEY want to get the BIG money out of politics when they are the beneficiaries of most of it.

Best to not claim either party using money is wrong. If looking at election budgets we can find both parties are heavily into hand outs from wealthy sources. If we could make up our minds and take the voting all the way back to how it was set up, no parties at all, then maybe we could end up with more honesty in the elected ones. Something we really have not had for many years. To me, parties are distractions from the purpose our people are elected for. Not for parties at all, but for the districts they are elected from by the people. So in essence, it is the people who elect these government employees, not the twisted parties.
 
I think it would be more like you're saying OA, I'm hoping we kick their ass without losing so many on the ground as in the past ways we did things. I think that's more of a "saying", but means the same, go in, kick ass, and get our guys out again, alive.

I'm against putting our troops there, because for one thing, it's never a quick in and out. Look at how long the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have lasted. Also, too many never make it out alive. Not to mention our troops coming back with physical, mental and emotional issues that very few people care to address. They are doped up, nobody wants to hire them, broken marriages, and they're basically kicked to the curb, if they commit suicide...oh well.

Besides that, war is a very expensive proposition financially:

"The number of American troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan totaled 6,802 as of April 2014. Those individuals came from every part of the United States and its territories, and the great majority were young men. Many were married, with children, and all left families with a lifetime of pain.


They died in a host of horrific ways. They were killed by insurgents’ deadly targeting or mangled in the dangerous equipment with which they worked. The causes of death include hostile rocket-propelled grenade fire and the improvised explosive devices that have been responsible for roughly half of all deaths and injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Their deaths were also the result of truck rollovers and other vehicle crashes, electrocutions, heatstroke deaths, friendly fire, and suicides in theater.

Official Pentagon numbers recognize only some of the war dead, however. Uncounted are the many troops who return home and kill themselves as a result of war wounds such as PTSD. The military does not report suicides among non-active duty reservists, and the Department of Veterans Affairs still does not report suicides among all veterans, resulting in dramatic under-reporting of the scale of the problem.

While the mortally wounded US soldier is the “gold standard” of war deaths for many Americans, the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have produced fatalities among large and unrecognized numbers of private contract workers. In April 2014, the over 61,000 contractors in Afghanistan outnumbered the uniformed US troops there. [1] While contractors have been killed in large numbers, a full and accurate accounting has not yet been done by the Pentagon.

An estimated 6,800 contractors working for the US have been killed in the two war zones; the true number is likely much larger. This is the consequence of the fact that the majority of US contractors are the citizens of other countries, many of whom appear not to have had their deaths or injuries reported. (Page updated as of May 2014)"


http://costsofwar.org/article/us-killed-0


Casualties in Iraq​

The Human Cost of Occupation

American Military Casualties in Iraq
Date
Total
In Combat
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03):44933528
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03) (the list)
43473424
Since Handover (6/29/04):36272899
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09):256128
Since Operation New Dawn:6639
American WoundedOfficialEstimated
Total Wounded:32021Over 100000
Page last updated 12/13/14 12:39 pm EDT
U.S. Wounded
Others
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq
319
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan
2356
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan
1127
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq
1,487
Journalists - Iraq
348
Academics Killed - Iraq
448
Sources: DoD, MNF, and iCasualties.org
U.S. lacks mechanism to accurately track troops wounded in Iraq
Also see The Missing Wounded.
American Count
Dates and sources of Americans killed in Iraq since 5/1/03 are documented in this file. Admittedly the file is incomplete, for the Department of Defense does not maintain old records. All data was compiled from http://www.defenselink.mil. If something is amiss in the data collection, please contact Margaret Griffis.
http://antiwar.com/casualties/



http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/allwars.htm

War was declared after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

Viet Nam started killing adviser's but no war was declared.

As AZJim already pointed out, Pearl Harbor was an attack on the United States.

I must say I too, have not seen the United States so divided in my time. Republicans want to blame Democrats and vice versa. I don't like seeing the big money guys or lobbyists being able to control voting but, I confess I know of no solution that both parties would agree to. It is with our political climate in mind that I am glad I am closer to the end than the beginning..

I agree that America is greatly divided, and I think that the 24 hour "news" cycle, and the biases of the main-stream media contribute to that greatly. Rather than report facts, and discuss resolutions to the issues, they take sides, repeat sound bites over and over, and basically get everyone in an uproar. Although we are all Americans who want what's best for ourselves and our country, we have different ideas on how to accomplish that. Bickering between the parties will likely never end.

By the way, I have great respect for you and your opinions, and I thank you for your service to our country. I think those who have served have a greater understanding of what war entails, and the true costs of war, regardless of their political affiliation. Many of us who have never served in the military, or been closely affected by war, can learn a lot by just listening to facts and opinions.
 
That's exactly right, one party isn't doing anything the other doesn't do, I mean even TV stations are taking sides, but I understand all the people aren't going to agree on every thing. So we vote, but I will not vote for someone just because they are a D or an R. I have to be careful because it seems some candidates agree with everything that the democrats want, and other agree with everything that the R's want. We need a president that is objective to both parties, and more then parties, the PEOPLE! Lots of people are one party or the other these days, they are sick of it too!

It's such a waste of precious time, throwing pies at who we don't agree with. Geesh, anything one person can say about one party, there is always a truth to say back. Well, I just think some folks like to argue and be right, that's what's most important, being right, being a bigshot. Putting someone else down somehow makes them feel bigger and better about themselves.
 
I'm against putting our troops there, because for one thing, it's never a quick in and out. Look at how long the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have lasted. Also, too many never make it out alive. Not to mention our troops coming back with physical, mental and emotional issues that very few people care to address. They are doped up, nobody wants to hire them, broken marriages, and they're basically kicked to the curb, if they commit suicide...oh well.

Besides that, war is a very expensive proposition financially:

"The number of American troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan totaled 6,802 as of April 2014. Those individuals came from every part of the United States and its territories, and the great majority were young men. Many were married, with children, and all left families with a lifetime of pain.


They died in a host of horrific ways. They were killed by insurgents’ deadly targeting or mangled in the dangerous equipment with which they worked. The causes of death include hostile rocket-propelled grenade fire and the improvised explosive devices that have been responsible for roughly half of all deaths and injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Their deaths were also the result of truck rollovers and other vehicle crashes, electrocutions, heatstroke deaths, friendly fire, and suicides in theater.

Official Pentagon numbers recognize only some of the war dead, however. Uncounted are the many troops who return home and kill themselves as a result of war wounds such as PTSD. The military does not report suicides among non-active duty reservists, and the Department of Veterans Affairs still does not report suicides among all veterans, resulting in dramatic under-reporting of the scale of the problem.

While the mortally wounded US soldier is the “gold standard” of war deaths for many Americans, the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have produced fatalities among large and unrecognized numbers of private contract workers. In April 2014, the over 61,000 contractors in Afghanistan outnumbered the uniformed US troops there. [1] While contractors have been killed in large numbers, a full and accurate accounting has not yet been done by the Pentagon.

An estimated 6,800 contractors working for the US have been killed in the two war zones; the true number is likely much larger. This is the consequence of the fact that the majority of US contractors are the citizens of other countries, many of whom appear not to have had their deaths or injuries reported. (Page updated as of May 2014)"


http://costsofwar.org/article/us-killed-0


Casualties in Iraq​

The Human Cost of Occupation

American Military Casualties in Iraq
Date
Total
In Combat
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03):44933528
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03) (the list)
43473424
Since Handover (6/29/04):36272899
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09):256128
Since Operation New Dawn:6639
American WoundedOfficialEstimated
Total Wounded:32021Over 100000
Page last updated 12/13/14 12:39 pm EDT
U.S. Wounded
Others
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq
319
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan
2356
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan
1127
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq
1,487
Journalists - Iraq
348
Academics Killed - Iraq
448
Sources: DoD, MNF, and iCasualties.org
U.S. lacks mechanism to accurately track troops wounded in Iraq
Also see The Missing Wounded.
American Count
Dates and sources of Americans killed in Iraq since 5/1/03 are documented in this file. Admittedly the file is incomplete, for the Department of Defense does not maintain old records. All data was compiled from http://www.defenselink.mil. If something is amiss in the data collection, please contact Margaret Griffis.
http://antiwar.com/casualties/





As AZJim already pointed out, Pearl Harbor was an attack on the United States.



I agree that America is greatly divided, and I think that the 24 hour "news" cycle, and the biases of the main-stream media contribute to that greatly. Rather than report facts, and discuss resolutions to the issues, they take sides, repeat sound bites over and over, and basically get everyone in an uproar. Although we are all Americans who want what's best for ourselves and our country, we have different ideas on how to accomplish that. Bickering between the parties will likely never end.

By the way, I have great respect for you and your opinions, and I thank you for your service to our country. I think those who have served have a greater understanding of what war entails, and the true costs of war, regardless of their political affiliation. Many of us who have never served in the military, or been closely affected by war, can learn a lot by just listening to facts and opinions.

I agree with a lot you say Seabreeze, and I don't like the idea of "ground troops" either. I think thats great too that AZ served as many others here have, but I don't respect comments on this board towards me or anyone else that simply agreed with something a Republican said. I like to weigh out both sides, I personally don't think either has any better ideas than the other, but that's why it's hard when it comes down to voting.
 
To me, these Iraq and Afghanistan totals for about 10 years are really quite low. Think back to the WWII fights of 3 or 4 years length and they were in the many thousands each year. Now those were really tough years for all of us. And one reason we kept our troops officially on duty for several years was to help those other countries get themselves back into productive ways and able to stand on their own with out problems. Those wars are more than just the shoot outs, as some think. It takes a lot of years and some new generations of young to learn new ways to live together with out so much fighting. I think Europe has done well and not really gone into more wars as they had done for so many centuries prior.

We should be prepared to help these folks long after their shooting is ended. It takes these extra efforts to end these constant spats and fights.

As a foot note, we can also add in the Japanese as some that have really done a lot since WWII and our troops stayed there for several years after the war ended. We still have some there as the US now rents some areas for troops and supplies.
 
Seabreeze said: "By the way, I have great respect for you and your opinions, and I thank you for your service to our country. I think those who have served have a greater understanding of what war entails, and the true costs of war, regardless of their political affiliation. Many of us who have never served in the military, or been closely affected by war, can learn a lot by just listening to facts and opinions."

Thank you SeaBreeze I did serve but not in combat. My service was between Korea and Vietnam. I already was out and had my honorable discharge when Vietnam really got going. No hero here but the U.S. has had hundreds of thousands of them in our history. I hate that man must maim and kill others in any cause. Before we should ever make canon fodder of our young men and women, we should measure that cause carefully.
 
As long as man/woman walks the Earth, there will be bloodshed because of the people that refuse to get along. And it "will" always be our young men and women that pay the price.
 
Thank you SeaBreeze I did serve but not in combat. My service was between Korea and Vietnam. I already was out and had my honorable discharge when Vietnam really got going. No hero here but the U.S. has had hundreds of thousands of them in our history. I hate that man must maim and kill others in any cause. Before we should ever make canon fodder of our young men and women, we should measure that cause carefully.

The admirable thing is that you served, whether in combat or not. I also despise that man must maim and kill others in any cause, especially when it only involves oil, power and control, which seems to me to be the case more often than not. We take the lives of our young service people too lightly, the war mongers don't care about the American lives sacrificed or ruined, that needs to change, but I doubt it will in our lifetimes. :(
 
Our PM Steven Harper is also a 'hawk' (isn't that what they call pro-war people?) and is more than willing to threaten and bluster and involve Canadians in conflict, but the guy was also never in the military. Not only that, he likes to show up for photo ops wearing an Air Force jacket complete with pilots wings, both of which not only apparently infuriates military members but the wearing of the pilots wings is apparently illegal in Canadian law if you aren't/weren't a pilot. Absolutely no class.

That's another thing, I would like to see someone become president again that actually knows first-hand what it is to serve in some God-forsaken place. I believe we will always have to do battles/wars but I don't like the idea of someone calling the shots that isn't willing to do it themselves. Just like bosses who've never got their hands dirty. Where are all the candidates that have served our country. I'd love seeing a real hero in the White House. I know, only happens in the movies:(
 
That's another thing, I would like to see someone become president again that actually knows first-hand what it is to serve in some God-forsaken place. I believe we will always have to do battles/wars but I don't like the idea of someone calling the shots that isn't willing to do it themselves. Just like bosses who've never got their hands dirty. Where are all the candidates that have served our country. I'd love seeing a real hero in the White House. I know, only happens in the movies:(

PS You are kidding me Debby, wears a uniform and never served??
 
The chance of having a president that served in the military is becoming slimmer and slimmer now that serving is just voluntary...
 
Thank you SeaBreeze I did serve but not in combat. My service was between Korea and Vietnam. I already was out and had my honorable discharge when Vietnam really got going. No hero here but the U.S. has had hundreds of thousands of them in our history. I hate that man must maim and kill others in any cause. Before we should ever make canon fodder of our young men and women, we should measure that cause carefully.


Thank you for your service... I didn't serve, but know how it is being a parent of one who did.. My eldest son served 2 tours.. The first invasions of Afghanistan and then Iraq. He served 6 years... So I understand what having a child over there is. When I hear of the Chicken Hawks being so anxious to put more families through that... it makes me sick. Perhaps we should reinstate the draft... If their kids or grandkids had the chance of drafted to fight, thy might not be so eagar... BUT of course, those kids would all get exemptions anyway..
 
Still feel that had it been an American the drums for war would drown out all objecting voices...
 
They were not military and I think that makes all of the difference...
 


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