Prayers at football games in public high school?

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/25/supreme-court-football-coach-prayer/

The Supreme Court’s conservative justices seemed sympathetic Monday to a former high school football coach who lost his job after leading postgame prayers at midfield, but the path to a decision is complicated by both the coach’s actions and the school district’s purported reason for disciplining him.

Joseph A. Kennedy’s lawyer said the assistant coach was asking only for a private moment to take a knee and express gratitude to God on the gridiron after a game. But lawyer Paul D. Clement acknowledged that Kennedy’s actions at Bremerton High School near Seattle had at times gone far beyond that, including leading players and others in prayer.

And Richard B. Katskee, representing the Bremerton school district, said officials had an obligation to protect students from being coerced into religious activity they did not want. But justices said that might be rationalization, because the officials’ complaint to Kennedy was that his actions would be seen as government speech, violating constitutional commands against government endorsement of religion.

“This may be a case about facts and not really much about law,” said Justice Stephen G. Breyer, beginning his last week of oral arguments before his scheduled retirement at the end of the term.

In general, Breyer and the court’s other two liberals seemed to think Bremerton officials had tried to accommodate Kennedy’s request to pray silently after games, but that what he really wanted was a public platform to involve players and the greater community.

Questions from the court’s conservatives indicated they believe the school district has misread the court’s precedents regarding government endorsement of religion, and perhaps were hostile to such demonstrations.

Justice Clarence Thomas questioned whether Kennedy would have been disciplined if he had taken a knee during the national anthem to protest racism. Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. questioned Katskee, legal director at Americans United for Separation of Church and State, about other political activism.
Suppose “when Coach Kennedy went out to the center of the field … all he did was to wave a Ukrainian flag. Would you have fired him?” Alito asked.
Katskee said the school district could discipline a coach for such actions because it “doesn’t want its event taken over for political speech.”
“Where is the school district rule that says that?” Alito demanded.

The case brings complicated questions about the ability of public employees to live out their faith and the government’s competing responsibility to protect schoolchildren from coercion and to remain neutral on the subject of religion. It calls for examining the interplay between the First Amendment’s establishment clause, which forbids government endorsement of religion, and its free speech and free exercise clauses, which prohibit government restraints on the private observance of religion.

Joe Kennedy, obscured at center in blue, is surrounded by Centralia High School football players as they kneel and pray with him on the field after their game against Bremerton High School, where Kennedy worked, in Washington state in 2015. (Meegan M. Reid/AP)
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit sided with the school district. The judges cited Supreme Court precedent that public employees give up some of their First Amendment rights, because their speech can be construed as being that of the government. And the appeals court said that even if Kennedy’s prayers could be seen as private speech, the district could take action to avoid the appearance of an establishment clause violation.

Clement said that was a mistake.

“When Coach Kennedy took a knee at midfield after games to say a brief prayer of thanks, his expression was entirely his own,” Clement said, adding “when the school district fired him for that fleeting religious exercise out of endorsement concerns, it not only violated the First Amendment, but it ignored a veritable wall of this court’s precedents that make clear that a school does not endorse private religious speech just because it fails to censure it.”

Clement acknowledged Kennedy had at times gone much further than that: leading locker room prayers, holding up the helmets of the two opposing teams at midfield and audibly praying, and inviting supporters and legislators onto the field. But he said the school board was not allowing the simple act of taking a knee, and demanding the prayers take place away from players.

Justice Elena Kagan indicated there was good reason for school officials to be concerned. She said it would not matter to a student if he thought a request to join in prayer was the official view of the school district, or simply the personal belief of a coach who controls playing time, or a math teacher who runs the class.

“That seems to me to be coercive of 16-year-olds regardless if they know that it’s him and not the school district,” she said. “He’s the one who’s going to give me an A or not.”

Katskee said that was what the school district was trying to avoid.

“No one doubts that public school employees can have quiet prayers by themselves at work even if students can see,” he told the court. “But that wasn’t good enough for Mr. Kennedy. He insisted on audible prayers at the 50-yard line with students. He announced in the press that those prayers are how he helps these kids be better people.”

Katskee said Kennedy was functioning as a coach, not a private citizen. But even if it were private speech, he said, under Supreme Court precedent “Kennedy’s rights would still have to be balanced against the district’s interest in controlling its events and messages, protecting the religious freedom rights of the students and their parents, and managing the workplace.”

Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh questioned that view of Kennedy’s actions. The events took place not in a locker room or during a game, but afterward, when players were dispersing. “This wasn’t, you know, ‘huddle up, team,’ you know, which is a common coach phrase,” Kavanaugh said. “That wasn’t this, right?”

And Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. tried to pull the focus back, away from disagreements between Kennedy and the school officials. “What if all that were off the table? It’s simply the coach going out to midfield, kneeling — taking a knee, and that’s it?” Roberts asked.

Katskee said that was the case for years, and the school district had not objected to — or even really noticed — Kennedy’s actions. But he said the school still must worry about student-athletes who would feel coerced to join.

Former Bremerton High School assistant football coach Joe Kennedy answers questions from the media after his case was argued before the Supreme Court on Monday. (Win Mcnamee/Getty Images)
Justices on both sides had plenty of hypotheticals, about coercion and about the rights of teachers and coaches. Praying or reading the Bible allowed before the bell rings? Saying a blessing? Holding religious youth meetings while a teacher is off duty?

Kavanaugh asked Katskee about a coach who makes the sign of the cross before a game.

“If the coach is doing it while not making himself the center of attention at the center of the field, it’s perfectly fine,” Katskee replied.

“I don’t know how we could write an opinion that would draw a line based on not making yourself the center of attention as the head coach of a game,” Kavanaugh said.

And Clement said that would not capture “real world examples anyway,” mentioning soccer and football players who made religious demonstrations on the field part of their routine.

“Right after Mohamed Salah scores the goal, he is of course the center of attention and he engages in a religious exercise,” Clement said. “Right after Tim Tebow scores the touchdown, he’s absolutely the center of attention. Yet, he engages in religious exercise. It’s private, it’s permissible, and the government can’t stop it.”

Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh and Justice Neil M. Gorsuch sympathized with Kennedy a couple of years ago when the case first reached the Supreme Court, but it was deemed premature for consideration. In its current form, it has divided constitutional scholars, red states and blue states, and more friend-of-the-court briefs than any case at the Supreme Court this term, except for the controversies over abortion and gun control.

It is also the fourth case this term in which the court has considered religious rights. Earlier, it decided a Texas death row inmate can be accompanied by a spiritual adviser who will play an active role in praying and comforting him at the time of his execution. It has yet to rule in a case from Maine that make it easier for parents to use public funds to send their children to religious schools. And it heard a complaint from a Christian group that it was discrimination for Boston to disallow its flag to fly in a city plaza, when other organizations were allowed.

Monday’s case is Kennedy v. Bremerton School District.
 

If "god" did favor one team over another, it would give that team an incredible, unfair advantage during the game. Why would the other team even bother showing up?

On the other hand, if "god" has time to fix football games in his favor (is he betting on games or WTF is he doing here?), why can't he do something about Putin. Perhaps he is on Putin's side.
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/25/supreme-court-football-coach-prayer/

The Supreme Court’s conservative justices seemed sympathetic Monday to a former high school football coach who lost his job after leading postgame prayers at midfield, but the path to a decision is complicated by both the coach’s actions and the school district’s purported reason for disciplining him.

Joseph A. Kennedy’s lawyer said the assistant coach was asking only for a private moment to take a knee and express gratitude to God on the gridiron after a game. But lawyer Paul D. Clement acknowledged that Kennedy’s actions at Bremerton High School near Seattle had at times gone far beyond that, including leading players and others in prayer.

And Richard B. Katskee, representing the Bremerton school district, said officials had an obligation to protect students from being coerced into religious activity they did not want. But justices said that might be rationalization, because the officials’ complaint to Kennedy was that his actions would be seen as government speech, violating constitutional commands against government endorsement of religion.

“This may be a case about facts and not really much about law,” said Justice Stephen G. Breyer, beginning his last week of oral arguments before his scheduled retirement at the end of the term.

In general, Breyer and the court’s other two liberals seemed to think Bremerton officials had tried to accommodate Kennedy’s request to pray silently after games, but that what he really wanted was a public platform to involve players and the greater community.

Questions from the court’s conservatives indicated they believe the school district has misread the court’s precedents regarding government endorsement of religion, and perhaps were hostile to such demonstrations.

Justice Clarence Thomas questioned whether Kennedy would have been disciplined if he had taken a knee during the national anthem to protest racism. Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. questioned Katskee, legal director at Americans United for Separation of Church and State, about other political activism.
Suppose “when Coach Kennedy went out to the center of the field … all he did was to wave a Ukrainian flag. Would you have fired him?” Alito asked.
Katskee said the school district could discipline a coach for such actions because it “doesn’t want its event taken over for political speech.”
“Where is the school district rule that says that?” Alito demanded.

The case brings complicated questions about the ability of public employees to live out their faith and the government’s competing responsibility to protect schoolchildren from coercion and to remain neutral on the subject of religion. It calls for examining the interplay between the First Amendment’s establishment clause, which forbids government endorsement of religion, and its free speech and free exercise clauses, which prohibit government restraints on the private observance of religion.

Joe Kennedy, obscured at center in blue, is surrounded by Centralia High School football players as they kneel and pray with him on the field after their game against Bremerton High School, where Kennedy worked, in Washington state in 2015. (Meegan M. Reid/AP)
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit sided with the school district. The judges cited Supreme Court precedent that public employees give up some of their First Amendment rights, because their speech can be construed as being that of the government. And the appeals court said that even if Kennedy’s prayers could be seen as private speech, the district could take action to avoid the appearance of an establishment clause violation.

Clement said that was a mistake.

“When Coach Kennedy took a knee at midfield after games to say a brief prayer of thanks, his expression was entirely his own,” Clement said, adding “when the school district fired him for that fleeting religious exercise out of endorsement concerns, it not only violated the First Amendment, but it ignored a veritable wall of this court’s precedents that make clear that a school does not endorse private religious speech just because it fails to censure it.”

Clement acknowledged Kennedy had at times gone much further than that: leading locker room prayers, holding up the helmets of the two opposing teams at midfield and audibly praying, and inviting supporters and legislators onto the field. But he said the school board was not allowing the simple act of taking a knee, and demanding the prayers take place away from players.

Justice Elena Kagan indicated there was good reason for school officials to be concerned. She said it would not matter to a student if he thought a request to join in prayer was the official view of the school district, or simply the personal belief of a coach who controls playing time, or a math teacher who runs the class.

“That seems to me to be coercive of 16-year-olds regardless if they know that it’s him and not the school district,” she said. “He’s the one who’s going to give me an A or not.”

Katskee said that was what the school district was trying to avoid.

“No one doubts that public school employees can have quiet prayers by themselves at work even if students can see,” he told the court. “But that wasn’t good enough for Mr. Kennedy. He insisted on audible prayers at the 50-yard line with students. He announced in the press that those prayers are how he helps these kids be better people.”

Katskee said Kennedy was functioning as a coach, not a private citizen. But even if it were private speech, he said, under Supreme Court precedent “Kennedy’s rights would still have to be balanced against the district’s interest in controlling its events and messages, protecting the religious freedom rights of the students and their parents, and managing the workplace.”

Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh questioned that view of Kennedy’s actions. The events took place not in a locker room or during a game, but afterward, when players were dispersing. “This wasn’t, you know, ‘huddle up, team,’ you know, which is a common coach phrase,” Kavanaugh said. “That wasn’t this, right?”

And Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. tried to pull the focus back, away from disagreements between Kennedy and the school officials. “What if all that were off the table? It’s simply the coach going out to midfield, kneeling — taking a knee, and that’s it?” Roberts asked.

Katskee said that was the case for years, and the school district had not objected to — or even really noticed — Kennedy’s actions. But he said the school still must worry about student-athletes who would feel coerced to join.

Former Bremerton High School assistant football coach Joe Kennedy answers questions from the media after his case was argued before the Supreme Court on Monday. (Win Mcnamee/Getty Images)
Justices on both sides had plenty of hypotheticals, about coercion and about the rights of teachers and coaches. Praying or reading the Bible allowed before the bell rings? Saying a blessing? Holding religious youth meetings while a teacher is off duty?

Kavanaugh asked Katskee about a coach who makes the sign of the cross before a game.

“If the coach is doing it while not making himself the center of attention at the center of the field, it’s perfectly fine,” Katskee replied.

“I don’t know how we could write an opinion that would draw a line based on not making yourself the center of attention as the head coach of a game,” Kavanaugh said.

And Clement said that would not capture “real world examples anyway,” mentioning soccer and football players who made religious demonstrations on the field part of their routine.

“Right after Mohamed Salah scores the goal, he is of course the center of attention and he engages in a religious exercise,” Clement said. “Right after Tim Tebow scores the touchdown, he’s absolutely the center of attention. Yet, he engages in religious exercise. It’s private, it’s permissible, and the government can’t stop it.”

Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh and Justice Neil M. Gorsuch sympathized with Kennedy a couple of years ago when the case first reached the Supreme Court, but it was deemed premature for consideration. In its current form, it has divided constitutional scholars, red states and blue states, and more friend-of-the-court briefs than any case at the Supreme Court this term, except for the controversies over abortion and gun control.

It is also the fourth case this term in which the court has considered religious rights. Earlier, it decided a Texas death row inmate can be accompanied by a spiritual adviser who will play an active role in praying and comforting him at the time of his execution. It has yet to rule in a case from Maine that make it easier for parents to use public funds to send their children to religious schools. And it heard a complaint from a Christian group that it was discrimination for Boston to disallow its flag to fly in a city plaza, when other organizations were allowed.

Monday’s case is Kennedy v. Bremerton School District.

I read some articles about this particular guy. He is really not a great example. He is more quirky and nutty, than he is religious.

First of...

from Matthew 6

"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

So his public display of prayer is absolutely in direct contradiction to Christian teaching.

I tend to think that guys who make this kind of big show of prayer are usually hiding something. I would not doubt this guy owes the IRS $200,000 or is cheating on his wife, is an alcoholic and some other big nonsense is going on in his life.
 
As far as praying in school and at public events? Personally, I am all for allowing for prayer as much as possible. We certainly need it.

But we do have to be respectful of other people's beliefs. I think the respectful way is to just have a minute of silence, in which people can pray or just choose to do nothing, if that is what they want.

I am religious and I pray. When we have gone to restaurants to eat, we pray before a meal. If I am in the mood to pray, I will pray.

I have never needed other people to stop what they are doing, in order for me to pray. Personally, I have never needed a minute of silence either. Though, it certainly is easier to pray when it is quiet. I literally used to pray while on a NYC subway. If you get in the habit of prayer, you can do it through any external noise.

As far as football is concerned?

Do folks really know that culture? There is an entire sexual culture around high school football, where one of the cheerleaders has to have sex with the football players who score a touchdown in that week's game.

So, introducing some prayer into that culture can't hurt...but that culture needs some real basic lessons in respect, humility and basic decency. I have had contact with the martial arts community. That culture has successfully found a way to train young men, into being powerful people, yet with class and dignity. High school football is really training a lot of kids to just be aggressive lunatics. If they go farther and make it into college ball...those programs tend to be very highly disciplined and don't tolerate as much craziness as high schools. But high school football, generally, needs a total re-vamp and some real lessons about kids not being little psychotic demons.

So, you know, they want to kneel in prayer for 30 seconds and then, in their private life pressure young girls into sex with no real connection, no real relationship, no real intimacy --- like a bunch of little date rapists? Please, stop the date rape first...then we can talk about prayer...

endless articles if you hit Google...

https://www.google.com/search?q=sex...7j33i160l4.6166j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
Not religious or a believer, however I also see this as a kind of minor thing. One that could and should have been dealt with locally. A waste of the Supreme Court's time.

So long as a coach or teacher doesn't coerce or pressure others I am ok with them expressing their religious beliefs. Just so it is in context and doesn't distract from real education.

Don't know enough about this guy to express an opinion on his specific actions, except to say it seems to be a mountain/molehill thing...
 
If "god" did favor one team over another, it would give that team an incredible, unfair advantage during the game. Why would the other team even bother showing up?

On the other hand, if "god" has time to fix football games in his favor (is he betting on games or WTF is he doing here?), why can't he do something about Putin. Perhaps he is on Putin's side.

You must not have read the article. The 2nd sentence in the article says...

"Joseph A. Kennedy’s lawyer said the assistant coach was asking only for a private moment to take a knee and express gratitude to God on the gridiron after a game." Clearly, he was just taking a moment to say thank you. In a free country you should be allowed to say thank you to anyone you want. But you got a few laughs if that's what you were going for.
 
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He's a football coach!

He's a screaming, aggressive lunatic drill sergeant. That is what football coaches are.

And somehow, we have to listen to THIS guy, give US instruction about religious practice?

Oh, please...


"Ok, Grandma Sarah...just do it, just pray, pray harder, hit that pew, hit that pew harder! Harder! HARDER!"

His aggressive nature is not going to yield religious truth. Just another screaming blowhard.

What's next? Used car salesmen for Jesus?
 
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I'm more concerned with the idea of destroying a person's life or career over something as simple as a prayer with a football team.

Why isn't it enough to reprimand the coach and move on?
Because he's a religious zealot who wouldn't get the message from a reprimand. He is well aware that what he's doing is wrong & he's doing it anyway.
 
First of...from Matthew 6..."But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." So his public display of prayer is absolutely in direct contradiction to Christian teaching.
What Matthew 6:5-7 is saying is this:
Jesus says prayers should NOT be for the purpose of being seen by others as righteous or “spiritual.” And prayers should be authentic, as from the heart, and not just vain repetition or “empty phrases.” Scriptures show people praying in public, so we know that this is not an exhortation to always pray alone.

This scripture is for those who struggle with the desire to be seen as righteous and who notice that temptation creeping in during public prayer would do well to heed Jesus’ prescription to get alone and pray just to the Father who will reward in secret.

Jesus knew that the Pharisees’ desire was to be seen by men as righteous, not really to talk to God. This statement about prayer was meant to convict and is instructive for all Christians, but it does not mean that all prayer must be secret.

Public prayer should be God-honoring, selfless, and based in a true desire to speak to God and not to men. If we can pray publicly without violating these principles, we do well to pray publicly. If, however, our conscience forbids it, there is nothing less effective about a prayer offered in secret.

Now, we don't know the coaches motive and we are not called to make a judgement. I'd leave that one to God.
 
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In Matthew 6:5-7, Jesus says prayers should not be for the purpose of being seen by others as righteous or “spiritual.” And prayers should be authentic, as from the heart, and not just vain repetition or “empty phrases.” However, when compared with other Scriptures that show people praying in public, we know that this is not an exhortation to always pray alone.

This scripture is for those who struggle with the desire to be seen as righteous and who notice that temptation creeping in during public prayer would do well to heed Jesus’ prescription to get alone and pray just to the Father who will reward in secret.

Jesus knew that the Pharisees’ desire was to be seen by men as righteous, not really to talk to God. This statement about prayer was meant to convict and is instructive for all Christians, but it does not mean that all prayer must be secret.

Public prayer should be God-honoring, selfless, and based in a true desire to speak to God and not to men. If we can pray publicly without violating these principles, we do well to pray publicly. If, however, our conscience forbids it, there is nothing less effective about a prayer offered in secret.

Now, we don't know the coaches motive and we are not called to make a judgement. I'd leave that one to God.
Since I'm not religious, I wasn't aware of that information. I've always thought that people who act religious in public are trying to show how "wonderful" they are & I have usually found that they are anything but wonderful people. That's reassuring to know. Thanks for posting it.
 
Thank you Win....but it IS true that some people are just putting on a show to look righteous. The Matthew 6 verse is for those people. Those people are called to examine their motives and if they're tempted to put on a public show of being religious then they need to do their praying in secret, in a room with the door shut for instance. We don't know the coach's motive. If he was sincere then he's okay to pray in public when the need arises according to the scripture verse.
 
Not religious or a believer, however I also see this as a kind of minor thing. One that could and should have been dealt with locally. A waste of the Supreme Court's time.

So long as a coach or teacher doesn't coerce or pressure others I am ok with them expressing their religious beliefs. Just so it is in context and doesn't distract from real education.

Don't know enough about this guy to express an opinion on his specific actions, except to say it seems to be a mountain/molehill thing...
I am surprised that this is a matter for the Supreme Court but given the Bill of Rights, I understand.
IMO this coach is manipulating his players and given the powerful position of the coach, I don't think he should be allowed to continue. Would he do this if the players were grown men?
 
Would this be allowed if it were Muslims or devil worshippers praying after the game? I doubt it, but if you allow one religion, you need to allow all religions.
I see your point @SeniorBen Our country was founded on Christian principles but that's being challenged as well which has thrown our country into chaos trying to please all people of every ethnicity, every difference in all areas of life. We're more of a melting pot now than ever before. It's impossible now to please everyone all of the time.

I think everyone of every religion should be allowed to pray in public if their motive is not self centered and if it isn't making anyone uncomfortable in public. But our history from our founding fathers of our country is very meaningful and simple. Life was simple and now it's not.

I feel if someone in public is offended then praying should be moved to a private place and scripture agrees with that, as it says "if they don't want to hear it then leave". In the case of this coach, he'll just have to move his prayerful thank you's to a private place. That's what God has made clear in the scripture because it's making others uncomfortable now.
 
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Would this be allowed if it were Muslims or devil worshippers praying after the game? I doubt it, but if you allow one religion, you need to allow all religions.
That exact thought occurred to me, SeniorBen, when I read the article. What if this guy was part of a devil-worshipping cult? Would that make a difference? What if he was leading the team in reciting prayers to the Devil?

Or any other minority religion? Once that can of worms is opened, there will be no containing what happens next.

If this man is so deeply spiritual that he feels the need to shove it in everyone's face, even when it's as grossly inappropriate as this is, it seems to me he could satisfy his 24/7 spiritual needs by just "thinking" his prayers to himself, and doing all the praying he wants once he gets home, or to church. Using his position of authority in this way (with the implied threat if the kids on the team don't happen to agree with him) is clearly a violation of their rights, and is certainly violating the separation of church and state.

I was kind of surprised when I saw where this is taking place. For a number of years, we lived not too far from Bremerton, a very ordinary, middle-class community, not at all the kind of place where this kind of stuff usually happens. I wonder how the community of Bremerton feels about it.
 
In my honest opinion there is a time and a place for prayer in a public place and I have seen it at games before. Not where the teams are gathered together for a prayer by either a coach or one of the players, but after the game has been played and a group of believing players gather together to pray. This was always participated by both teams and no player was forced to participate. They just seemed to walk into the circle if they wanted to.
 


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