Help me please! America, freedom of speech, is it still real?

H

halalu

Member
Location
midwest
Help me please; I recently made comments about sex acts between two consenting adults is their business. (Fifty Shades of Gray) movie and books led to the comment I made. I also said that some races or people consider certain sex acts normal. Those comments caused some females to be insulted and very cruel. One of them said that I should not be allowed to communicate about sex in public. What happened to freedom of speech and everyone being entitled to their own opinion?
 

Thanks! I hit a sore spot. It is a thin line between domestic violence being performed in sex acts and if a person, male or female is consenting or not fighting back when someone makes a comment the pent up anger they have toward their mate is taken out on the outsider who dares to say something.
 
Freedom to say what you want is still alive. People who use that freedom in such a way as to garner scorn need to understand that is the price of saying what we choose to say, we need to remember others enjoy that same freedom. Bottom line, say what you want but don't attempt to do it with impunity. I doesn't work like that.
 
People are always free to say what they want... Freedom of speech does not mean that people have to agree with what you say.. Your right is NOT taken because someone voices disagreement. If you want to voice an opinion... you better be willing to hear what others think too.
 
I can walk up to a huge man on the street and say "hey Mac, whose the fat ugly broad you're with". The bloody nose is his way of expressing his opinion of that.
 
QuickSilver said:
People are always free to say what they want... Freedom of speech does not mean that people have to agree with what you say.. Your right is NOT taken because someone voices disagreement. If you want to voice an opinion... you better be willing to hear what others think too.
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Agree. Freedom of speech is a two way street.
 
halalu said:
Help me please; I recently made comments about sex acts between two consenting adults is their business. (Fifty Shades of Gray) movie and books led to the comment I made. I also said that some races or people consider certain sex acts normal. Those comments caused some females to be insulted and very cruel. One of them said that I should not be allowed to communicate about sex in public. What happened to freedom of speech and everyone being entitled to their own opinion?
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I assume that was on a discussion forum?

There is no freedom of speech on a discussion forum. We're allowed in here at pleasure of the ownership and moderators-if we post something that they decide is inappropriate they have the right to censor us or remove our posting privileges. It's much like coming over to your house-if I'm a guest we can certainly have a discussion, but if you find me rude or I make remarks that you deem inappropriate you can certainly order me to shut up or ask me to leave.

Rights are also a two way street-while I have the right to say almost anything I want (I can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater), other people also have the right to disagree with me, sometimes in a way that I may find objectionable. I have to use my freedom of speech with a measure of common sense.

Even if your comments were not made in a private discussion forum, it sounds like you were in no way censored, just disagreed with. Quite frankly, there are a few subjects that I try to stay away from-religion, sex and politics. Everyone has their opinion, and with some people those subjects can be extremely hot button issues. I find the world is a much more pleasant place if I avoid those discussions.
 
Political correctness has taken a lot of our freedom of speech away.

Example: Lets say you employee no one. You dont approve anyones pay raise. You do not determine if someone has a job or not. And you are not a landlord renting a house.

Can you say, " I just dont care for black people", " I dont care what they do in their bedroom, but I personally can't stand gay people", " I am all for paying everyone equal, if they do the same job, but women just can't cut it in this profession".

Try it sometime and see if there is freedom of speech.

Gene
 
GeneMO said:
Political correctness has taken a lot of our freedom of speech away.

Example: Lets say you employee no one. You dont approve anyones pay raise. You do not determine if someone has a job or not. And you are not a landlord renting a house.

Can you say, " I just dont care for black people", " I dont care what they do in their bedroom, but I personally can't stand gay people", " I am all for paying everyone equal, if they do the same job, but women just can't cut it in this profession".

Try it sometime and see if there is freedom of speech.

Gene
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You just did.
 
IMHO, you have the freedom to express your opinion, but then, so does the other guy. SO, if you are expressing a controversial opinion, or any opinion for that matter, you have to be prepared for the next guy to express his, too. I think common sense should direct what we say to whom, and when, and where, if we don't want to deal with someone else's adverse reaction.
 
AZ Jim said:
Freedom to say what you want is still alive. People who use that freedom in such a way as to garner scorn need to understand that is the price of saying what we choose to say, we need to remember others enjoy that same freedom. Bottom line, say what you want but don't attempt to do it with impunity. I doesn't work like that.
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+1, true story.


DoItMyself said:
I assume that was on a discussion forum?
There is no freedom of speech on a discussion forum. We're allowed in here at pleasure of the ownership and moderators-if we post something that they decide is inappropriate they have the right to censor us or remove our posting privileges. It's much like coming over to your house-if I'm a guest we can certainly have a discussion, but if you find me rude or I make remarks that you deem inappropriate you can certainly order me to shut up or ask me to leave.
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Many people don't understand this.
 
AprilT said:
You just did.
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Yes, on this forum. But lets say you want to run for political office. Lets say you are a news anchor. People in certain positions have to hide their true feelings in order to Keep a job, get a job, etc. But once in awhile it slips out, and then your career is over, or whatever.

And I was strictly playing devils advocate. I like you just fine AprilT.

But the point is, we have laws in the country against discrimination in the workplace, hiring, housing, education everything. But should people not be free to be racists? If it doesn't involve any of the discrimination criteria?

We have a black section in our town. I will 100% guarantee that there are some black people over there who do not want me over there. Although I have never figured out the "honkie" thing they use to call us. Cracker I get.

It works both ways.

Gene
 
GeneMO said:
Yes, on this forum. But lets say you want to run for political office. Lets say you are a news anchor. People in certain positions have to hide their true feelings in order to Keep a job, get a job, etc. But once in awhile it slips out, and then your career is over, or whatever.

And I was strictly playing devils advocate. I like you just fine AprilT.

But the point is, we have laws in the country against discrimination in the workplace, hiring, housing, education everything. But should people not be free to be racists? If it doesn't involve any of the discrimination criteria?

We have a black section in our town. I will 100% guarantee that there are some black people over there who do not want me over there. Although I have never figured out the "honkie" thing they use to call us. Cracker I get.

It works both ways.

Gene
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Might it be that there are many that find those views that some express polarizing, ignorant, without justification in most instances and prefer to not have those individuals in leadership over them in one way or another. As far as news people and others, they are entitled to feel as they do but it is usually part of their job to remain neutral especially as a representative of those they represent, well for the most part that is some people are just too stupid to keep their ignorant views to themselves at any cost.

I don't mean a view such as I don't like black people and leave it at that, though it's more than likely a problem when you press for a reason, because that's going to fall on whatever stereotype they paint all people with using one brush, one shade. I much rather know if someone doesn't like me based on my color, size, geographical birth, etc, I then know what I'm dealing with and how to handle them to suit my needs if I have a need for them at all.

There are parts of town where some white people don't want some white people and so it goes, not sure what that proves.
I live in a predominantly white area, city, county, some people would much rather not have to lay an eye on my kind if given a choice, but, that's not all the people. So what, I didn't realize just how segregated some areas of this town was till I moved here, I was the only black person I saw around my neighborhood most any given day, I see a couple more here and there more and more over the past year, but, I'm kind of use to it living around your species as a lone wolf, a good portion of my life, (kidding about species ref.,) it doesn't bother me much until someone walks up to me as has happened a time or two and they down, slides over and says, "We don't mind if black people join our group, we're fine with you being here." WTF. This has been said to me completely out of the blue with no reason or cause at least a couple of times at a couple of events, not to mention some other less than pleasant encounters in this town, that I don't dwell on but have had a very lasting impression and opened my eyes quite a bit. I know most people aren't like that, most people are better than that and show it regularly in all kinds of ways.
 
GeneMO said:
But lets say you want to run for political office.

Gene
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I understand what you are saying, however, as a politician, I also know the value of expressing your views honestly and up front. If we had more politicians that were flat out honest about their views, no matter what those views were, we'd be a lot better off.

One of the things that I found interesting in your post was that you quickly brought race into it. Anyone is indeed free to dislike anyone else for any reason that they choose. But under that same freedom, I'm allowed not to do business with them because I don't care for their views on race, or gender preference, or any other reason. And I'm also within my rights not to invite them into my home for dinner, and as a politician, if they bring up those views, I'm within my rights to ask them to leave and take their views with them.

Bottom line is that while we all have some views that others may disagree with, it doesn't mean we have to proudly wear them on our chest and wave them in front of the very people who would be insulted and hurt by those views. A decent person knows when to speak, and also knows when to hold their tongue.
 
My opinion is that people don't understand what freedom of speech means.

Having a right to free speech means that one can voice an opinion about the most important person in the land, in print or out loud in a public place without risking a charge of treason or similar.

Not having any right to free speech means that one dares not voice an opinion of the most important person in the land, even in private amongst friends, for fear of a visit from the secret police, after which one disappears into some distant gulag or unmarked grave.

Freedom of speech does not confer licence to defame, slander or libel a person(s), nor does it allow racial vilification or incitement to violence to a person or racial/ethnic group. It does not allow you to deceive people and fleece them of their money by telling lies or other forms of misrepresentation. As in all things, freedom is not limitless.

Freedom of speech does not entitle you to abuse someone on public transport because you don't like the colour of their skin or the way they dress. Nor does it allow you to stalk someone along the street, ridiculing them or verbally harassing them. Citizens have a right to be protected from this kind of behaviour.

To understand how this freedom works, we must imagine ourselves on the delivery and the receiving end of the speech. I think the "Do unto others..." principle should be applied. If it is very important that we speak out, then we should do it with equal measures of courage and respect.
 
DoItMyself said:
I assume that was on a discussion forum?

There is no freedom of speech on a discussion forum. We're allowed in here at pleasure of the ownership and moderators-if we post something that they decide is inappropriate they have the right to censor us or remove our posting privileges. It's much like coming over to your house-if I'm a guest we can certainly have a discussion, but if you find me rude or I make remarks that you deem inappropriate you can certainly order me to shut up or ask me to leave.

Rights are also a two way street-while I have the right to say almost anything I want (I can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater), other people also have the right to disagree with me, sometimes in a way that I may find objectionable. I have to use my freedom of speech with a measure of common sense.

Even if your comments were not made in a private discussion forum, it sounds like you were in no way censored, just disagreed with. Quite frankly, there are a few subjects that I try to stay away from-religion, sex and politics. Everyone has their opinion, and with some people those subjects can be extremely hot button issues. I find the world is a much more pleasant place if I avoid those discussions.
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This is true. When you are in a private sector of some sort, you are expected to follow rules. I agree, because in my home, or on a forum I may own, I can call the shots. I don't know exactly the law on this, but there is one, evidently. I think respect comes into it. For example, someone has built, payed for, a home, or a forum lets say. It is their's and I believe in giving respect, where it is due. So if you know the rules, and you blatantly go against the rules of that privately owned home or forum, expect to be asked to leave. Freedom of speech isn't about going into some place that has rules and breaking them, it's about speaking what's on your mind in a public area, isn't it?
 
Dame Warrigal said:
My opinion is that people don't understand what freedom of speech means.

Having a right to free speech means that one can voice an opinion about the most important person in the land, in print or out loud in a public place without risking a charge of treason or similar.

Not having any right to free speech means that one dares not voice an opinion of the most important person in the land, even in private amongst friends, for fear of a visit from the secret police, after which one disappears into some distant gulag or unmarked grave.

Freedom of speech does not confer licence to defame, slander or libel a person(s), nor does it allow racial vilification or incitement to violence to a person or racial/ethnic group. It does not allow you to deceive people and fleece them of their money by telling lies or other forms of misrepresentation. As in all things, freedom is not limitless.

Freedom of speech does not entitle you to abuse someone on public transport because you don't like the colour of their skin or the way they dress. Nor does it allow you to stalk someone along the street, ridiculing them or verbally harassing them. Citizens have a right to be protected from this kind of behaviour.

To understand how this freedom works, we must imagine ourselves on the delivery and the receiving end of the speech. I think the "Do unto others..." principle should be applied. If it is very important that we speak out, then we should do it with equal measures of courage and respect.
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Excellent Dame, I so agree, you said this so well. I have not understood exactly what free speech is, and in not understanding, or caring to, I can sort of make it up for myself, what it means. I haven't done that, mainly because that respect thing comes into it for me. I respect this person's opinion, their right to it, so I do not want to "do unto them" because sometimes, what goes around does come around. And for another thing, I am never that sure I'm right. I like to express my opinion with other folks around me that I know may disagree, but I don't want to attack their opinion, I just want to ask them to consider mine.
 
In Thailand which is laid back and happy you are not allowed to make fun or say anything negative about the monarchy. If you do you could be jailed for up to 15 years. Everyone professes to adore the king. But do they?

So they don't have free speech.
 
IMO, some folks want "Freedom Of Speech" the same way as they want to yell "Discrimination"..........to try and get what they want!

We do have "Freedom Of Speech", but only to an extent. A person can say whatever they want to a Judge in a court of law, but you may get what you don't want. A person can say whatever they want to a law enforcement officer, but you may end up in handcuffs and jail. Within "Freedom of Speech", people can cuss/swear at others and call them names, but that can end up with someone getting seriously hurt or killed.

We really don't have "Freedom of Speech" on this forum and it's told to all of us in the Forum rules........and that's fine with me.

Actually, if I want to express a "somewhat" more "Freedom of Speech", I will put it in a PM, not in a forum thread! And, I don't get real nasty about what I say either.

We all have our opinions on a lot of different topics, but as older/more experienced ADULTS, we SHOULD be able to handle ourselves like that. Again, IMO.
 
Ameriscot said:
In Thailand which is laid back and happy you are not allowed to make fun or say anything negative about the monarchy. If you do you could be jailed for up to 15 years. Everyone professes to adore the king. But do they?

So they don't have free speech.
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I sometimes wonder if it was such a hot idea. We should have a thread just on that, good one I'd bet;)
 
ClassicRockr said:
... We all have our opinions on a lot of different topics, but as older/more experienced ADULTS, we SHOULD be able to handle ourselves like that. Again, IMO.
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Which is somewhat sad, because all that says is that we've become successfully programmed ...

Good post.

And even if it wasn't, I wouldn't say so. :p
 

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