Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade?

Murrmurr said:
I think it didn't start here until the 90s. Also, back in the day, single moms who wanted to "protect" the father from "persecution" used to say they had no idea who the child's father was, could be any number of men, and while the courts could request a paternity test, the request had no teeth. Today, of course, courts can order a DNA test, and there are consequences for defying the order.
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Oh yes they did that and still do that here... without DNA check ups, because the women say they don't know the fathers' names ... so there's instances of women with 6 , 8, 10 sometimes more with children from different men, claiming they don't know who the father is, and being paid by the state, benefits for each individual child... and this is happening in thousands of homes... not just a few..
I feel that the state should stop all benefits after a 3rd child with no ''father''... but it's irritating to people like me who were married and our husbands didn't pay maintenance, and the fact that he said he was, meant that I couldn't get any help at all from the state
 

hollydolly said:
Oh yes they did that and still do that here... without DNA check ups, because the women say they don't know the fathers' names ... so there's instances of women with 6 , 8, 10 sometimes more with children from different men, claiming they don't know who the father is, and being paid by the state, benefits for each individual child... and this is happening in thousands of homes... not just a few..
I feel that the state should stop all benefits after a 3rd child with no ''father''... but it's irritating to people like me who were married and our husbands didn't pay maintenance, and the fact that he said he was, meant that I couldn't get any help at all from the state
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Yeah, the whole welfare system needs an overhaul, imo.

I liked former Calif governor Reagan's idea - require the Human Services and Employment Development Depts to get all able-bodied people off welfare and into a job, or career college, or a skills apprenticeship program within 3 years. And he wanted welfare recipients to get paid hourly while in career college or skills-training, to get well-focused (as opposed to half-arsed) employment assistance after the training, and free child-care during the whole process.

But Dem elected officials didn't like him, and he was outnumbered so he lost that fight. It was a brilliant plan, imo. Would have wound up costing way less, and probly the state wouldn't be chock-full of gangs, addicts, fatherless children, and homeless people right now. Even the jails would be emptier, I bet.
 
Murrmurr said:
Yeah, the whole welfare system needs an overhaul, imo.

I liked former Calif governor Reagan's idea - require the Human Services and Employment Development Depts to get all able-bodied people off welfare and into a job, or career college, or a skills apprenticeship program within 3 years. And he wanted welfare recipients to get paid hourly while in career college or skills-training, to get well-focused (as opposed to half-arsed) employment assistance after the training, and free child-care during the whole process.

But Dem elected officials didn't like him, and he was outnumbered so he lost that fight. It was a brilliant plan, imo. Would have wound up costing way less, and probly the state wouldn't be chock-full of gangs, addicts, fatherless children, and homeless people right now. Even the jails would be emptier, I bet.
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love that proposal, it's what should happen here. I could say further about what happens here and my thoughts on it but it takes us into political land so I better be quiet now..
 

Pepper said:
No Family Court I worked here would ever accept someone's word for a cash payment, only a signed receipt. @hollydolly
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well that's not what happened here... I was astounded that they would just accept his word that he came and paid cash every Friday, but they did. I couldn't believe they wouldn't place a judgement on him to at least pay by cheque, so there was proof..
 
Murrmurr said:
They do.

The courts do hold fathers financially responsible. Fathers are required by law to provide financial support for their children. That's pretty much a given, but if an attorney has to get a court-order to ensure a man meets his responsibilities, the court will give or send the man legal documents fully explaining their legal obligations, as well as all the possible consequences he faces if he fails to comply. Courts can impose jail sentences, garnish wages, and seize tax refunds, inheritances, and other gains.

The problem isn't with the courts.
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Perhaps times have changed. I never got a dime of support for my son, despite telling human services his father's Air Force service number, his place of employment, his address, his phone repeatedly. They were the ones who supposedly handled child support. They did nothing. My ex-husband just went off and started a new family, no problem.
 
hollydolly said:
Oh yes they did that and still do that here... without DNA check ups, because the women say they don't know the fathers' names ... so there's instances of women with 6 , 8, 10 sometimes more with children from different men, claiming they don't know who the father is, and being paid by the state, benefits for each individual child... and this is happening in thousands of homes... not just a few..
I feel that the state should stop all benefits after a 3rd child with no ''father''... but it's irritating to people like me who were married and our husbands didn't pay maintenance, and the fact that he said he was, meant that I couldn't get any help at all from the state
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That situation was overcome in Australia by requiring the fathers to pay maintenance into a fund administered by the federal government, after which it was passed on to the mother. Any defaults were considered to be a debt to the welfare system that had to take up the slack. The debt was sorted out as part of the taxation system.

It had the added benefit of not requiring hostile couples to have direct contact.
 
Em in Ohio said:
Perhaps times have changed. I never got a dime of support for my son, despite telling human services his father's Air Force service number, his place of employment, his address, his phone repeatedly. They were the ones who supposedly handled child support. They did nothing. My ex-husband just went off and started a new family, no problem.
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That's pretty much how it was until the late 80s, and got better yet in the 90s.

For single fathers, though, we weren't treated equally or even fairly until the early 2000s. My kids were grown by then. I couldn't even get help with child-care costs because I worked full-time, but my single mom GF only had to pay 1/3 of her monthly child-care, and she earned more money than I did.

My kids got the world's most awesome childcare though - no charge other than occasional gifts, errands, and favors. We lived in the Sierras, and a local Maidu woman came early every workday morning to take them to spend the day with her at a small Indian village a little father up in the hills, near a huge, beautiful lake called Mountain Meadows. My kids were very loved there. And very well-fed. 😋
 
Em in Ohio said:
Yes, in the USA, we have a representative government. The question that comes to mind is: "Who are they representing?" My answer is: "Whatever PAC offers the most money, and the majority be damned."
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You got that right Em!
@dseag2 You brought up a point that I was thinking about too when you wrote "Another member mentioned that 2 million parents are waiting to adopt. Are they waiting to adopt Black children? Are White parents even equipped to raise Black children with so much racism still prevalent in our country?" People come up with these pat answers to very complicated situations. They think because they work out in their heads they are really that easy and will work in real life. NOT! Black children in the system often get passed over.

Welfare statistics show that the percentages of Blacks and Whites receiving public assistance is nearly identical (1% more Blacks), which means there are plenty of White women who also cannot afford to travel for abortions. Also most (if not all) of the reports I've read about babies being born and left in toilets or discarded like trash were born to White mothers.

It's disgustingly amazing that SCOTUS is considering going after contraception use and the right has been campaigning to shut Planned Parenthood down for years, yet will not likely do anything to provide additional financial aid to women/families who could not afford to have more children but were forced to due to overturning Roe v Wade.
 
hollydolly said:
Oh yes they did that and still do that here... without DNA check ups, because the women say they don't know the fathers' names ... so there's instances of women with 6 , 8, 10 sometimes more with children from different men, claiming they don't know who the father is, and being paid by the state, benefits for each individual child... and this is happening in thousands of homes... not just a few..
I feel that the state should stop all benefits after a 3rd child with no ''father''... but it's irritating to people like me who were married and our husbands didn't pay maintenance, and the fact that he said he was, meant that I couldn't get any help at all from the state
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Are you saying that they believed your husband over you? Shouldn't there have been a system in place (a paper trail) where he had to prove he made those payments? Here (in N.J. at least), the father brought up for non support has to prove payments through the courts. They even went after one of my step-sons for non support but he was in a mental institution! This article lists enforcement measures for my state.
https://www.njchildsupport.org/Serv...forcement-Making-sure-child-support-gets-paid
 
StarSong said:
There's a lot more to raising children than receiving some (often grudging) financial support. Since you've raised children you already know the enormous commitment of time, energy, patience and freedom needed to bring up a child. Doing it solo means even greater sacrifices.

Raising children often permanently disrupts a woman's pursuit of higher education and/or her career trajectory, particularly if that woman is on her own. Releasing a child for adoption is something very few women acknowledge even to their husbands or subsequent children because of the lifelong stigma and shame involved.

I know a woman who got pregnant at 17, stayed in her parents' house throughout the entire pregnancy, and gave up the baby. She not only wonders about that boy (now over 50 years old), she lives in dread fear that one of his children and one of her relatives - including children and grands - will do an Ancestry.com type test and her secret will be discovered.

Adoption for the adoptive parents is a very different kettle of fish than adoption for the mother who gives up the child. I'm not anti-adoption by any means. I just recognize that it has unseen reefs over which the releasing mother stumbles and cuts herself thousands of times throughout her life.
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You spend a lot of time "stating the obvious" who over 50 does not already know this? Most of us have raised multiple children...

So, you think the mother's that have abortions do not wonder throughout their lives what their baby may have turned out like, what they would have looked like, etc. etc. Of course, they do, only the most callous person would not have some regrets. Now I am NOT saying that they regret the abortion, only that they have to live with some regrets, similar to what happens if they give the baby up for adoption...

My beautiful wife that I have been married two for 52 years was adopted. We had three beautiful kids who have granted us with six great grandkids. All of that would not have happened if her parents did not adopt her and her birth mother made a decision to have the baby and put her up for adoption. So, I have a bias on this issue...
 
Timewise 60+ said:
You spend a lot of time "stating the obvious" who over 50 does not already know this? Most of us have raised multiple children...

So, you think the mother's that have abortions do not wonder throughout their lives what their baby may have turned out like, what they would have looked like, etc. etc. Of course, they do, only the most callous person would not have some regrets. Now I am NOT saying that they regret the abortion, only that they have to live with some regrets, similar to what happens if they give the baby up for adoption...

My beautiful wife that I have been married two for 52 years was adopted. We had three beautiful kids who have granted us with six great grandkids. All of that would not have happened if her parents did not adopt her and her birth mother made a decision to have the baby and put her up for adoption. So, I have a bias on this issue...
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With all due respect to your wife.. it certainly could have happened if your wife wasn't in the world.. it would probably have simply happened with another woman
 
hollydolly said:
With all due respect to your wife.. it certainly could have happened if your wife wasn't in the world.. it would probably have simply happened with another woman
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Holly, that's pretty 'silly' it would not have been the 'same'! Different person, different path....!
 
Timewise 60+ said:
You spend a lot of time "stating the obvious" who over 50 does not already know this? Most of us have raised multiple children...

...So, you think the mother's that have abortions do not wonder throughout their lives what their baby may have turned out like, what they would have looked like, etc. etc. Of course, they do, only the most callous person would not have some regrets. Now I am NOT saying that they regret the abortion, only that they have to live with some regrets, similar to what happens if they give the baby up for adoption

My beautiful wife that I have been married two for 52 years was adopted. We had three beautiful kids who have granted us with six great grandkids. All of that would not have happened if her parents did not adopt her and her birth mother made a decision to have the baby and put her up for adoption. So, I have a bias on this issue...
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I don't know how it was in the past, but unfortunately I don't think that's the case most times these days, when women are told to look at abortion as "it's just healthcare" or "their own bodies" and probably don't even consider it to be 'their baby.'

I'm not sure of locations, but have seen articles in recent years where 'Planned Parenthood' objects to showing the women ultrasound photos.. because to do so, they'd see a real live human being in there.
 
I personally have little interest about the abortion issue beyond a gut reaction of abortion being sad, while the political situation that could have avoided this change over decades is disgusting.

Since there is no actual legislated law on the issue but rather just a controversial court decision, are so many citizens on both sides of this controversy that feel strongly, and the differences are strong in some regions, it makes some logical sense not to be a federal mandate but rather allow states to individually decide as is now the situation. If in the future the nation as a whole feels one way or the other, then our do little Congress ought be one to start the process. As it stands, they as well as their politically correct media are guilty of spending several decades with their head in a hole in the sand knowing that one day the decision might be overturned simply because it was never in the constitution or part of legislation.
 
Ten year old girl had to travel from Ohio to Indiana for abortion.

"On Monday three days after the Supreme Court issued its groundbreaking decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, Dr. Caitlin Bernard, an Indianapolis obstetrician-gynecologist, took a call from a colleague, a child abuse doctor in Ohio.

Hours after the Supreme Court action, the Buckeye state had outlawed any abortion after six weeks. Now this doctor had a 10-year-old patient in the office who was six weeks and three days pregnant.

More than 100 patients in Dayton had to be scheduled at the Indianapolis facility, a representative for Women’s Med, wrote in an email to IndyStar.

The two centers are working together to route patients to Indianapolis for a termination after a pre-op appointment in Dayton. In recent months, they have also had people from southern states, like Texas, come north for a procedure.

Many patients, particularly from Ohio and Kentucky, are seeking care through Women’s Med while also making multiple appointments in other states so if one state closes down, they will still have some options, the representative wrote."

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news...g-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/10-old-forced-cross-state-014401194.html
 
I thought a U.S. Supreme Court’s judgment didn’t take effect for 20 days after the judgment was ordered. I learn something new everyday.
 
StarSong said:
It'sI am in that middle ground, but much of the time, I feel all alone. I would really like to see the conservative Democrats and the liberal Republicans get together and form a third viable party.
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You are not alone. You are really not alone. But, the news media focuses on those who make the most noise, which is usually the extremists on both sides. And it doesn't help that a lot of our politicians just make personal attacks rather than argue the actual issue.

What is the issue? IMO, the issue the Supreme Court decided is not (#1)whether or not abortion should be legal, but (#2) who should decide how to regulate abortion. Many people have been fooled into thinking the SC must decide the first issue. Wrong. Their decision was the second issue and they threw it back to the states where it belongs on our Constitution. But, very few reporters have the eduation and brain power to understand that, so we get a bunch of goofy nonsense in the news. Or they have a vested interest in not reporting what they know is more accurate.
 
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