Spare the rod, spoil the child ???

senior chef

senior chef

Senior Member
One thing that has always bothered me is that our society, taken as a whole, does not spend enough resources on educating people that corporal punishment often has an extremely negative influence on the developing child. Please don't get me wrong, I am an advocate on discipline in child rearing, but NOT physical abuse.
Why is it so important to raise a child, sans violence ? When we study the backgrounds of criminals, especially violent criminals, we are struck with the fact that a very high percentage of violent criminals have a background of past childhood abuse. Though, the saying of, "Spare the rod, spoil the child", is not a direct quote from The Bible, there are numerous other biblical passages that do advocate corporal punishment ... especially in Proverbs.

Indeed, violent criminals often have a background of child abuse, BUT it is also true that abusive parents often have background of child abuse.

Yes, it is now true that some states come down hard on child abuse, this is a relatively recent change. Back a hundred years ago, there was a case involving physical child abuse. Since there was no law against child abuse, the case had to be prosecuted under "animal abuse laws".

So, I strongly advocate that both the federal government and individual states spend more time and financial resources on getting the message across, PHYSICAL VIOLENCE IN CHILD REARING IS BAD PARENTING.
 

senior chef said:
One thing that has always bothered me is that our society, taken as a whole, does not spend enough resources on educating people that corporal punishment often has an extremely negative influence on the developing child. Please don't get me wrong, I am an advocate on discipline in child rearing, but NOT physical abuse.
Why is it so important to raise a child, sans violence ? When we study the backgrounds of criminals, especially violent criminals, we are struck with the fact that a very high percentage of violent criminals have a background of past childhood abuse. Though, the saying of, "Spare the rod, spoil the child", is not a direct quote from The Bible, there are numerous other biblical passages that do advocate corporal punishment ... especially in Proverbs.

Indeed, violent criminals often have a background of child abuse, BUT it is also true that abusive parents often have background of child abuse.

Yes, it is now true that some states come down hard on child abuse, this is a relatively recent change. Back a hundred years ago, there was a case involving physical child abuse. Since there was no law against child abuse, the case had to be prosecuted under "animal abuse laws".

So, I strongly advocate that both the federal government and individual states spend more time and financial resources on getting the message across, PHYSICAL VIOLENCE IN CHILD REARING IS BAD PARENTING.
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@senior chef, spot on! The cycle of violence and abuse needs to end, hopefully the citizenry can gain insight into the dynamics and support constructive choices.
 
senior chef said:
One thing that has always bothered me is that our society, taken as a whole, does not spend enough resources on educating people that corporal punishment often has an extremely negative influence on the developing child. Please don't get me wrong, I am an advocate on discipline in child rearing, but NOT physical abuse.
Why is it so important to raise a child, sans violence ? When we study the backgrounds of criminals, especially violent criminals, we are struck with the fact that a very high percentage of violent criminals have a background of past childhood abuse. Though, the saying of, "Spare the rod, spoil the child", is not a direct quote from The Bible, there are numerous other biblical passages that do advocate corporal punishment ... especially in Proverbs.

Indeed, violent criminals often have a background of child abuse, BUT it is also true that abusive parents often have background of child abuse.

Yes, it is now true that some states come down hard on child abuse, this is a relatively recent change. Back a hundred years ago, there was a case involving physical child abuse. Since there was no law against child abuse, the case had to be prosecuted under "animal abuse laws".

So, I strongly advocate that both the federal government and individual states spend more time and financial resources on getting the message across, PHYSICAL VIOLENCE IN CHILD REARING IS BAD PARENTING.
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QFT.
 

I doubt it would change any parents' minds if the government or any other organization tried to get the message across.
Ignorant parents are very stubborn & they think their way is the only right way. Besides, such parents work off their anger & frustrations by taking them out on those who can't & won't fight back. They also have a need for power & control.
 
Heaven preserve us from leftie do-gooders! Instead of dealing with the problem of increasing lawlessness, they are finding excuses to justify criminal behaviour. Yes, extreme violence and any kind of abuse is wrong....but children need discipline, guidance and decent standards to live by. In our present society, they are just not getting it.
 
Too much discipline and the teenager rebels=trouble. Not enough discipline the teenager wanders aimlessly = trouble. What are the things that we can discipline our youth with that will help them in their future? Maybe manners? School work? No drugs or alcohol?

I spanked my daughter one time when she was about 7, she went and hid in a kitchen cabinet. :( I never spanked either of my children again. I was spanked regurarily and sometimes with a switch or belt. I know I am OK by my standards. :) I have heard that witholding deserts as a punishment sometimes creates a backlash and the person becomes obese from eating deserts when they leave home. There are consequences to how we discipline, and if a kid comes to school injured in anyway, it should be investigated immediately.
 
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It seems to me that every case I've heard of where people are committing violence against children has a horrifying story of the perp being a victim of similar violence in his own childhood. And so it continues, generation by generation.

Lavinia, you are confusing discipline and guidance with physical abuse. They are two different things.
 
This is a tough one for me. I agree child abuse of any kind is an evil we need to eradicate as best we can.

However I grew up in a place and time where corporal punishment was standard, both in the home and school. I was spanked and paddled many times, and I don't think it had any adverse impact. So were most all of my friends, no evidence of damage I know of there. I am sure abuse was happening to some kids back then, but I believe it was a minority.

I know this has mostly gone out of fashion today, and I suppose that may be for the best. It can be hard to sort reasonable corporal punishment out from abuse. And ending abuse is important, probably more important than corporal punishment.
 
Alligatorob said:
This is a tough one for me. I agree child abuse of any kind is an evil we need to eradicate as best we can.

However I grew up in a place and time where corporal punishment was standard, both in the home and school. I was spanked and paddled many times, and I don't think it had any adverse impact. So were most all of my friends, no evidence of damage I know of there. I am sure abuse was happening to some kids back then, but I believe it was a minority.

I know this has mostly gone out of fashion today, and I suppose that may be for the best. It can be hard to sort reasonable corporal punishment out from abuse. And ending abuse is important, probably more important than corporal punishment.
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You are very skilled at diplomacy! (y)
 
Lavinia said:
Heaven preserve us from leftie do-gooders! Instead of dealing with the problem of increasing lawlessness, they are finding excuses to justify criminal behaviour. Yes, extreme violence and any kind of abuse is wrong....but children need discipline, guidance and decent standards to live by. In our present society, they are just not getting it.
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Interesting viewpoint. My experience has been quite different. The young people I interact with who don’t have criminal behaviour issues almost always come from backgrounds where they have been nurtured rather than hit. They have been taught how to function in this world, understand the

effects of poor choices, and their consequences. Allowed to fail, and pay the price while still at home, they learned how to be accountable, responsible, compassionate adults. Fear and shame are poor teachers, cause and effect, excellent ones. Imho, children who have been subjected to

corporal punishment, yet seem to have grown up to be happy, functional adults, did do in spite of being hit, rather than because of it.
 
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There are a host of excellent discipline measures that teach but do not abuse the child.
Once, the wife of a friend of mine, shared with me the trouble she was having with her 12 year-old daughter. The daughter often skipped school and "back sassed" her mom. After discussing, it the mom asked me what she could do ? I knew that the daughter really got upset when her 2 younger sisters went into her room and played with her stuff. So, I suggested that the mom completely remove her daughters bedroom door as a punishment for skipping school and "back sassing". Needless to say, the daughter was very upset about her loss of privacy and she got the message, loud and clear.
 
I will say what I have always believed. There's a HUGE difference between a spanking and child abuse. And today's little "time out" babies have grown up to be mouthy little brats with no respect and no understanding of consequences. A lot of the stuff kids today do is stuff we'd have been spanked for and grounded for because it's inappropriate behavior. Today's parents just tell them to stop. That's working wonders. *Rolls Eyes*

It was a teaching tool and a damned effective one. All it took was for mom to say "wait til your father gets home" and we straightened our asses up right quick. And I feel we were better behaved for it.
 
MarciKS said:
I will say what I have always believed. There's a HUGE difference between a spanking and child abuse. And today's little "time out" babies have grown up to be mouthy little brats with no respect and no understanding of consequences. A lot of the stuff kids today do is stuff we'd have been spanked for and grounded for because it's inappropriate behavior. Today's parents just tell them to stop. That's working wonders. *Rolls Eyes*
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Exactly,

the debate will continue past me i am sure ... there are clever ways to punish other then a swat .......but in all honesty i doubt many are told there will be consequences EVER.....
I blame parents who raised people who even after being repeated told something ... do it anyway and THEN plead ignorance and wanting a do-over constantly.
That is not how life works many things you can't say "oops and go on.".............. many young people today seem to have difficulty grasping that concept.
 
chic said:
It sort of gives meaning to the phrase, "The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children." Surely we can do better than corporeal punishment in the 21st century?
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Given my personal experience I was skeptical, I wasn't sure that well applied disciplinary corporal punishment was a bad thing.

So I did some Google research and it seems there are good scientific studies that show its a bad thing. There are lots of examples out there, but to quote from one "The effect of corporal punishment on antisocial behavior in children" by
Andrew Grogan-Kaylor:

The findings of this research suggest that corporal punishment has an adverse effect on children's level of antisocial behavior, even when statistical controls for observed variables and for all unobserved time-invariant variables are used.

Seems I was wrong...
 
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Remy said:
It's not going to happen. Too much behind too many closed doors.
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With widespread education, it is possible that someone will tip off the authorities, in spite of what happens behind closed doors.
IMO, relatives and close neighbors often know that a child is being abused.
 
The one example I have personally known about (except for one case when I was a practicing lawyer) re child abuse is this. A 12 year old girl (who rode the school bus with my daughter) was at my door at midnight on a Friday. Scared to death, with nowhere to go. Her mother had thrown her out of the house. There was no excuse for that.

I didn't agree to explore letting her live with us (which my daughter requested) because it would have been too much; I already had 4 teenagers, and unfortunately, she was a product of her crappy environment. She needed therapy and much more care than I could give her. It would have been a bad idea for my family. My husband wouldn't have let us do it anyway - he was already mad at me for letting her stay with us for the weekend, which was unconscionable in my view.

I called the police and they said, "Just let her live with you." They would do nothing! I called CPS, too. She had been reported many times. They did nothing. "The authorities", at least here, were useless.
 
Remy said:
It's not going to happen. Too much behind too many closed doors.
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You are probably right, and given that for the first million years or so of human existence it was common and accepted practice. In a relative sense its only been in the last few minutes a movement against corporal punishment of children has appeared.

Doesn't mean we should try and stop it.
 
WheatenLover said:
The one example I have personally known about (except for one case when I was a practicing lawyer) re child abuse is this. A 12 year old girl (who rode the school bus with my daughter) was at my door at midnight on a Friday. Scared to death, with nowhere to go. Her mother had thrown her out of the house. There was no excuse for that.

I didn't agree to explore letting her live with us (which my daughter requested) because it would have been too much; I already had 4 teenagers, and unfortunately, she was a product of her crappy environment. She needed therapy and much more care than I could give her. It would have been a bad idea for my family. My husband wouldn't have let us do it anyway - he was already mad at me for letting her stay with us for the weekend, which was unconscionable in my view.

I called the police and they said, "Just let her live with you." They would do nothing! I called CPS, too. She had been reported many times. They did nothing. "The authorities", at least here, were useless.
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So what happened to her?
 
The term isn't 'spare the rod spoil the child.' It is 'spare the rod.' 'Spoil the child.'
IOW, don't hit. Spoil the child (with LOVE).
That's my parental advice and it works. I have 2 generations of proof.
 

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