Six-year-old in custody after shooting teacher

hollydolly said:
how does this happen ?...Don't get me wrong, I know it happens that's well documented, but how ?.. really I suppose it's rhetorical question because no one person could answer this.. but as many people who've been here for a long time already know.. I had a particularly horrendous childhood.. which included everything but murder.. I'll leave it at that..my siblings and I also watched while our mother was badly abused.. yet we're not murderers, we're not drug or alcohol or child abusers,... That's not to say we're not scarred by our childhoods.. and that as children we were angry.. yes we were and we got into fights with other kids, we took our anger and yes, rage.. out on other kids in playground fights ...but kill someone ?.. even think of killing someone.. ?.. No.. never crossed our minds ( aside from a 1/2 serious discussion between us as kids of what we might do to our father )
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Thank you for sharing that, @hollydolly . I can't even imagine how horrible that must have been for you. I don't know the answer... but bottom line (my personal opinion only) has always been that some level of mental illness must have already been there. I've always based that thinking on exactly what you said... people have horrid childhoods and don't end up as murderers. It disturbs me that often with mass murderers, school shooters, etc. we hear "oh, they were abused as a child" as if that somehow makes it alright or excuses it. :mad:
 

CallMeKate said:
Thank you for sharing that, @hollydolly . I can't even imagine how horrible that must have been for you. I don't know the answer... but bottom line (my personal opinion only) has always been that some level of mental illness must have already been there. I've always based that thinking on exactly what you said... people have horrid childhoods and don't end up as murderers. It disturbs me that often with mass murderers, school shooters, etc. we hear "oh, they were abused as a child" as if that somehow makes it alright or excuses it. :mad:
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Thank you Kate.!

Yes, you see, I've always thought along the same lines. I feel that like you, there had to be some kind of issues already prior to the abuse... . My father was nothing more than a psychopath, my mother a depressive.. fortunately ( arguably ).. none of us inherited those genes, perhaps if we had .. then we too would taken the law into our own hands .. and I'm certainly not sitting on a high horse here.. but like I say, we did have the most horrendous childhood.. so I'm not talking from a point of not understanding totally, however the terrible childhood excuse to me, is a Cop out!! Everyone knows right from wrong.. Unless there's serious mental issues
 
The gun was the boy's mother's, and she bought it legally. Police still won't reveal how the boy was able to access the gun and take it to school.
 
SeniorBen said:
You need to have a pulse to qualify for gun ownership, but they can wave that.
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This will sound really harsh, but...

The kid needs to go into foster care, and the mom needs to go to jail for a couple of years.

This is a part where I'm sure to get pushback, but I've thought about it long and hard, and objectively (hopefully). It is from the POV of the general society, and not the two offending individuals, not the victim.

We do not live in a society that *needs* more people: we have more than enough, already. If this is true, rehabilitation is less important that it might have been 120 years ago. So in truth, we don't need their contribution, we just need to be kept safe from them.

Transportation was the "old way".
 
Sawfish said:
This will sound really harsh, but...

The kid needs to go into foster care, and the mom needs to go to jail for a couple of years.

This is a part where I'm sure to get pushback, but I've thought about it long and hard, and objectively (hopefully). It is from the POV of the general society, and not the two offending individuals, not the victim.

We do not live in a society that *needs* more people: we have more than enough, already. If this is true, rehabilitation is less important that it might have been 120 years ago. So in truth, we don't need their contribution, we just need to be kept safe from them.

Transportation was the "old way".
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Don't even think about shipping them out to Botany Bay. :rolleyes:
 
Latest info dribble... apparently, the kid took the gun out in class and the teacher tried to take it away from him. That's when he shot her. She told the other students to run.

Still no word as to how the kid got his hands on the gun.
 
Apparently you can easily pick up a handgun left carelessly lying around.

Two handguns were stolen overnight Thursday from a vehicle parked just outside of the Colorado Capitol belonging to a Republican who will be sworn into office Monday as a state representative.

State Rep.-elect Ron Weinberg, of Loveland, said both guns were unloaded and secured with trigger locks, which prevent the firearms from firing until they are removed. Weinberg said he always has trigger locks on his guns and unloads them when they aren’t in use because he is the father of young children.

Weinberg said he reported the pistols as stolen as soon as he realized they had been taken and provided the weapons’ serial numbers to authorities. He said he is cooperating with Denver police and the Colorado State Patrol as they investigate the theft.

2 handguns stolen outside Colorado Capitol from truck belonging to incoming GOP state representative (coloradosun.com)
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How secure are trigger locks? Secure enough for a child no doubt but for a determined adult ???
 
hollydolly said:
how does this happen ?...Don't get me wrong, I know it happens that's well documented, but how ?.. really I suppose it's rhetorical question because no one person could answer this.. but as many people who've been here for a long time already know.. I had a particularly horrendous childhood.. which included everything but murder.. I'll leave it at that..my siblings and I also watched while our mother was badly abused.. yet we're not murderers, we're not drug or alcohol or child abusers,... That's not to say we're not scarred by our childhoods.. and that as children we were angry.. yes we were and we got into fights with other kids, we took our anger and yes, rage.. out on other kids in playground fights ...but kill someone ?.. even think of killing someone.. ?.. No.. never crossed our minds ( aside from a 1/2 serious discussion between us as kids of what we might do to our father )
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By the age of five the little boy was extremely mentally disturbed from the horrific abuse. I only lasted 4 years and then went back to graduate school when my coworker was murdered by one of our clients.
 
I believe that children who experience protracted and horrific abuse from an early age can be molded into sociopaths. I am speaking of the most extreme forms of child abuse. Most kids aren’t buried alive with little rats and only sufficient air to sustain a minimum of life,

most abused kids aren’t waterboarded, or forced to fight, torture, or kill other kids, the list goes on and on. Why would it be surprising if they become violent, willing to harm or kill others? Would it not be equally bizarre if they did not? 😞
 
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The problems of children and society today started 3 generations ago. Now it's hard to fix because the parents are just as messed up as the kids. The messed up parents are WHY the kids are messed up. Now when you try to implement things to fix the problem, the adults with the messed up mindset will fight you tooth and nail, yet still complain when stuff like this happens. They don't want guns banned, they don't want violent movies and video games banned, they get mad when you remove kids from messed up homes, they don't want kids held accountable, they don't want stricter rules and punishment for kids, they don't want the parents blamed, but they want the problem fixed. SOMETHING'S gotta give. It's like wanting to lose weight but not wanting to eat less. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The whole thing is sad.
 
jimintoronto said:
A Canadian perspective. In our criminal code a child of 6 would never be charged nor prosecuted for such an act. The Parents on the other hand WOULD be charged with a number of criminal code offences relating to the hand gun such as " improper storage " and "criminal negligence resulting in bodily harm " and "endangering a minor ". Upon conviction, the accused would face a prison sentence of up to ten years.

The youngest age in Canada that a minor can be arrested and charged with a crime is 12. The Youth Criminal Justice Act covers this type of situation and the names of the minors are never made public, and if a Parent is charged, their identity is also not made public. A minor convicted under the YCJA can only be sentenced to a period of incarceration until they reach the age of 18, then they must be released, and their record is sealed and only available in the case of a new Police investigation about them. Trials under the YCJA are NOT open to the public, and media reports must not disclose the identity of the minor either by name or facial features. JimB.
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Don M. said:
This child should be placed in foster care with responsible adults. His current parents should be criminally charged for allowing access to a firearm.
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Yes, I think both parents should be charged with the shooting as if they pulled the trigger themselves. I think if parents start getting charged and going to jail for what their kids do, a LOT of this stuff will stop. They will do what they have to do to ensure their kids can't get hold of a gun if it's 10 years of THEIR life they will have to spend in jail for it.
 
Farrah Nuff said:
This is what happens when parents aren't allowed to discipline their children anymore. Spare the rod, my fat fanny!
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There are more forms of discipline than beating and hitting. It comes from lack of discipline, not lack of beatings.
win231 said:
Uh, yeah. This happens due to insufficient child beating. :rolleyes:
An often-used excuse for ignorant parents to take their frustrations & anger out on their kids & call it "Discipline."
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Exactly! If anything, he probably got beat a lot which is why he used a gun/violence on his teacher after their altercation.
 
JustDave said:
I understand we are experiencing a teacher shortage as we speak, and from the report I read, it's for many of the circumstances we are discussing here.
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Not in the least bit surprised.

When people sign up to be law enforcers et al they know what dangers they are likely to meet, and are trained to respond to those situations.

A teacher is a surrogate parent as much as an Educator... never should a teacher have to be in fear for their lives from any student or parent of a student. There will come a time in the USA I believe, when Teachers will end up teaching from behind a screen.. whether literally in the Classroom or Digitally.. for the safety of their own lives
 
Victoria said:
There are more forms of discipline than beating and hitting. It comes from lack of discipline, not lack of beatings.

Exactly! If anything, he probably got beat a lot which is why he used a gun/violence on his teacher after their altercation.
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He's on his way to becoming the next Jeffrey Dahmer - and for the same reason.
 
Warrigal said:
Apparently you can easily pick up a handgun left carelessly lying around.



How secure are trigger locks? Secure enough for a child no doubt but for a determined adult ???
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Depends.

The integral lock on Taurus revolvers were sufficiently tough to workaround that when I lost the key and tried to find a workaround, I found that there would be a fair chance that I'd damage the gun permanently.

I eventually found the key.
 
Sawfish said:
Depends.

The integral lock on Taurus revolvers were sufficiently tough to workaround that when I lost the key and tried to find a workaround, I found that there would be a fair chance that I'd damage the gun permanently.

I eventually found the key.
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I wouldn't own a gun with an internal lock. Such locks occasionally malfunction, locking the gun when you want it to work.
I prefer this type of security: (no key)
original pistol box
 
win231 said:
I wouldn't own a gun with an internal lock. Such locks occasionally malfunction, locking the gun when you want it to work.
I prefer this type of security: (no key)
original pistol box
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Well, it was the only one I ever bought, and I probably would not buy another, for that very reason.

Ironically what it does is to convince you to make sure the gun is in an unlocked state, then hide the key and basically forget about it.

Unintended consequences, indeed...
 
Just saw an update on the news of this case. They say there was no confrontation between the child and the teacher as has been reported previously .

The boy simply pulled out the gun and pointed it at the teacher. (this from the Teacher's own statement to police)

She held her hands up in a submissive position and he shot through her hand and into her chest. Even then, the teacher despite being seriously wounded managed to steer the rest of the children to safety.

The boy is currently being held in detention and will appear in court in front of a Judge who will determine whether the detention should continue.. or what further steps are to be taken.

the parents have not been charged with any crime as of yet, but that could change, and the Gun had been purchased legally by the mother, who said she was not aware the boy had taken it..
 
Gun storage laws in Virginia:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...in-virginia/&usg=AOvVaw10WOzicMlfmmmxwg1CZ4IH

§ 18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.​

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded, unsecured firearm in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of fourteen. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to authorize a child under the age of twelve to use a firearm except when the child is under the supervision of an adult. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. For purposes of this subsection, "adult" shall mean a parent, guardian, person standing in loco parentis to the child or a person twenty-one years or over who has the permission of the parent, guardian, or person standing in loco parentis to supervise the child in the use of a firearm.
 

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