In your opinion the Bible

Used to be very common here too Jim...and perhaps the big chain hotels still do it, but I've stayed in hotels many many times on business here in the UK and haven't seen a Bible in a long time..
 

I take it as mostly fiction. I've never read the whole bible like some have, but in my eight years in Catholic school, I read what I had to. Between that and what the nuns taught us, many things IMO had to be taken with a grain of salt.
 
Some very simplistic views being expounded here.

The Bible as it is called is a collection of writings (books) that contains different genres. It is not collated according to the time of writing either.

Fiction to my mind implies that someone dreamed the stories up from their imagination to entertain the reader. Some parts of the bible could fit into that category I suppose but more likely the purpose of the stories is to teach.

The mythological and legendary stories are very old and were transmitted from one generation to another by story tellers over maybe a thousand years to impart religious values and explain certain mysteries. Oral stories eventually become written down and then the fluid nature of the story disappears and it becomes fixed in time. These sections could probably be classified as fiction and the reader should look inside the story to see whether or not there is a kernel of truth to be found within. If the story is worth the telling and retelling, there will be something there.

Books such as Proverbs, Psalms and Ecclesiastes are known as the Wisdom books and could be considered to be philosophical writings. Is philosophy fiction? I would class it as instructional non fiction. Job is one long discussion on the existence and reason for human suffering a seen through an ancient theocratic mind set. It is allegorical.

The four Gospel books were all written within living memory of the life and death of Jesus of Nazareth. They are based on some eye witness accounts and on some writings that are now lost. Each author writes for a different audience and accordingly emphasise different aspects of his ministry. How much is actual memory and how much is embellishment for the audience is for the reader to decide but within each story that is written down is something that the author thought was very important to pass on. Two thousand years later we need to apply our adult intelligence if we want to find meaning in the texts. With the parables this is relatively easy. Some other passages are more like a secret code for believers who were living under a tyrannical regime where subversive teaching could easily result in death. Christianity was/is a very subversive movement that challenges the rich and powerful.

As an illustration consider the story of Jesus walking on water. Obviously on face value it is a nonsense, but what if first century Christians understood that the boat that the fishermen were in actually is a metaphor for the Christian church in Rome and the storm that rocks the boat represents the persecutions that they were experiencing and the fear mentioned was very real. When Jesus appears walking across the water, Peter leaves the boat and walks towards him. He is doing something impossible in the face of great danger but then he realises the danger he is in and begins to sink. Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. Jesus rebukes him for his lack of faith and encourages him and the others in the boat to have faith so that they can become stronger, rise above their fear and go on to do the impossible.


I have seen a modern parallel of this story when I attended AA meetings. For an alcoholic abstaining from liquor seems as impossible as walking on water. However, those who place their faith in a higher power are more likely to be successful in achieving sobriety. Even though they may sometimes begin to sink, if they refocus and try again, trusting in something more powerful than their own will, they can do what they once believed to be beyond their capability. I've seen this with my own eyes.

Now compare this story with the story of Ali Baba and the forty thieves and ask yourself whether the two stories have a lot in common. Both could be considered as fiction, but which one has something important at its core?

Don't get me started on the story of Jonah and the whale. It has a very important message that has nothing to do with whales or big fish. It is about self righteousness and looking down on other races and cultures. Still relevant today.
 

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There's really no way for me to know whether it's fiction or non-fiction. I do know that I don't consider it sacred. If my conscience tells me one thing and the Bible tells me another, Bible goes bye-bye.
 
Well, it, must say in there somewhere where it's OK for the nuns in the catholic school I went to,bash the crap out of the kids, for trivial things like no one owning up who was talking in class while they were absent for a short period.... Then they go to church and read the bible...
That's my opinion of the the bible ...
 
I suppose it does say somewhere, Proverbs maybe?, "spare the rod and spoil the child".
I've heard similar ideas on this forum about how to deal with punks and gang bangers.

I was once caned for talking while the teacher was out of the room too but it was a public school.
How did he know? My best friend ratted on me. :mad:

In the 1950s such punishment was the norm. Nuns didn't have a monopoly on corporal punishment.
Parents applied the razor strop to their own children, with or without the benefit of anything they may have read in the Bible.
 
I think I agree with Josiah, then at some later date a religious conference agreed certain writings could be approved to be included with the proper edits in a authorized Bible. Some think these writings, this Bible divinely inspired. It's been a long time since I've had any religious training, but I have read the bible, all of it, and later in a three or four year study of the bible with a group of interested people, went through most of it again. All that means is I knew where to find something within its covers. I don't think the bible or religion as practiced today has anything to do with spiritual matters.
 
Kadee46 said:
Well, it, must say in there somewhere where it's OK for the nuns in the catholic school I went to,bash the crap out of the kids, for trivial things like no one owning up who was talking in class while they were absent for a short period.... Then they go to church and read the bible...
That's my opinion of the the bible ...
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I had some of those and I think they were trained in the Irish laundries.
 
We've stayed in the airport hotel in Dubai a few times and they didn't have a Quran but they did have a prayer rug and instructions pointed to the direction of Mecca.
 
The things that your liable to read in the bible........it ain't necessaralily so!
However, as DW has pointed out, with the New Testaments, a lot of what was written about Jesus was done in the same lifetime, so we know that there was some truth about his life actually written down.
Those nuns at school had a good right hook didn't they?
was is a tenebrae service?
 
The word ‘tenebrae’ is Latin for shadows. The purpose of the Tenebrae service is to recreate the emotional aspects of the passion story, so this is not supposed to be a happy service, because the occasion is not happy. If your expectation of Christian worship is that it should always be happy and exhilarating, you won’t appreciate this service until the second time you attend it.
The service was originally designed for Good Friday, but it can be used for Maundy Thursday as well. Both services have long scripture narratives, which for this service are divided into seven, eight, or nine parts, each one assigned to a different reader.

The service may include other parts, such as solemn hymns, a sermon, and Communion, but the core of the Tenebrae service works like this: It starts out with the church in candlelight. There are as many candles as there are readings, plus a white Christ candle. The readers go up one at a time, read their assigned selections, and extinguish one of the candles, until only the Christ candle remains. Then someone reads the first part of Psalm 22, which Jesus quoted on the cross. Then the Christ candle is put out, leaving the congregation in near total darkness—and near total devastation. At this point, the service ends. There is no benediction and the people leave in silence. (The lights are turned up but remain dim so that people can see their way out.)

The purpose of the service is to recreate the betrayal, abandonment, and agony of the events, and it is left unfinished, because the story isn’t over until Easter Day.
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It is not a service for everyone. It is reflective, meditative and deeply moving.
 
I was raised Lutheran.. Missouri Synod.. I have NO idea what at Tenebrae service is.. I suppose it's just another name for a service on Good Friday.. Which I remember to be the same as described.. starting with candlelight and ending with blowing out the candles and everyone walking out of the dark church in silence.. Nothing new... just another name.
 
QuickSilver said:
I was raised Lutheran.. Missouri Synod.. I have NO idea what at Tenebrae service is.. I suppose it's just another name for a service on Good Friday.. Which I remember to be the same as described.. starting with candlelight and ending with blowing out the candles and everyone walking out of the dark church in silence.. Nothing new... just another name.
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It was the same back in our church too. Same product with a new label. Quicksilver, you are the reason I am on here. I thought this was going to be a group of old, close minded uptights of my own generation. I happened to read a couple of your posts and was struck by your tone and knowledge of the subject.

My wife was raised Missouri Synod. Lots of "fear God" in that ritual. She joined my Congregational church where we brought up our kids. A long time ago. We were very active back then. Senior Deacon, Sunday school teacher, etc. Lost our belief over the years. The Bible is a mixed hash of much earlier religious ideas with some distorted history thrown in. It was written by iron age herdsmen who thought the world ended at their horizon and the stars could fall out of the sky. Whatever it is, there is no way I can see it as being the infallible word of God. If He/She/It wanted us to know the rules, there could not be a worse book to get the message across. You can find more wisdom in Mother Goose.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Some very simplistic views being expounded here.

The Bible as it is called is a collection of writings (books) that contains different genres. It is not collated according to the time of writing either.

Fiction to my mind implies that someone dreamed the stories up from their imagination to entertain the reader. Some parts of the bible could fit into that category I suppose but more likely the purpose of the stories is to teach..................Don't get me started on the story of Jonah and the whale. It has a very important message that has nothing to do with whales or big fish. It is about self righteousness and looking down on other races and cultures. Still relevant today.
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Excellent explanation Dame Warrigal and I'd only add to that that it is 66 books written by different authors over the period of I think a couple thousand years and each book/letter contains a common thread of God, creation, love, salvation sometimes told through direct instruction or parables and the history of the Jewish race.
 
I did a search for the web page of the largest church in my community (large by number of members) and found what they believe in was not surprising, just interesting. All of my family and many of my friends belong to this church. I of course am the rebel.

[h=1]What We Believe - Unabridged[/h]
The Evangelical Free Church of America is an association of autonomous churches united around these theological convictions:
God
We believe in one God, Creator of all things, holy, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in a loving unity of three equally divine Persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Having limitless knowledge and sovereign power, God has graciously purposed from eternity to redeem a people for Himself and to make all things new for His own glory.
The Bible
We believe that God has spoken in the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, through the words of human authors. As the verbally inspired Word of God, the Bible is without error in the original writings, the complete revelation of His will for salvation, and the ultimate authority by which every realm of human knowledge and endeavor should be judged. Therefore, it is to be believed in all that it teaches, obeyed in all that it requires, and trusted in all that it promises.
The Human Condition
We believe that God created Adam and Eve in His image, but they sinned when tempted by Satan. In union with Adam, human beings are sinners by nature and by choice, alienated from God, and under His wrath. Only through God’s saving work in Jesus Christ can we be rescued, reconciled and renewed.
Jesus Christ
We believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, fully God and fully man, one Person in two natures. Jesus-Israel’s promised Messiah-was conceived through the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived a sinless life, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father as our High Priest and Advocate.
The Work of Christ
We believe that Jesus Christ, as our representative and substitute, shed His blood on the cross as the perfect, all-sufficient sacrifice for our sins. His atoning death and victorious resurrection constitute the only ground for salvation.
The Holy Spirit
We believe that the Holy Spirit, in all that He does, glorifies the Lord Jesus Christ. He convicts the world of its guilt. He regenerates sinners, and in Him they are baptized into union with Christ and adopted as heirs in the family of God. He also indwells, illuminates, guides, equips and empowers believers for Christ-like living and service.
The Church
We believe that the true church comprises all who have been justified by God’s grace through faith alone in Christ alone. They are united by the Holy Spirit in the body of Christ, of which He is the Head. The true church is manifest in local churches, whose membership should be composed only of believers. The Lord Jesus mandated two ordinances, baptism and the Lord’s Supper, which visibly and tangibly express the gospel. Though they are not the means of salvation, when celebrated by the church in genuine faith, these ordinances confirm and nourish the believer.
Christian Living
We believe that God’s justifying grace must not be separated from His sanctifying power and purpose. God commands us to love Him supremely and others sacrificially, and to live out our faith with care for one another, compassion toward the poor and justice for the oppressed. With God’s Word, the Spirit’s power, and fervent prayer in Christ’s name, we are to combat the spiritual forces of evil. In obedience to Christ’s commission, we are to make disciples among all people, always bearing witness to the gospel in word and deed.
Christ’s Return
We believe in the personal, bodily and premillennial return of our Lord Jesus Christ. The coming of Christ, at a time known only to God, demands constant expectancy and, as our blessed hope, motivates the believer to godly living, sacrificial service and energetic mission.
Response and Eternal Destiny
We believe that God commands everyone everywhere to believe the gospel by turning to Him in repentance and receiving the Lord Jesus Christ. We believe that God will raise the dead bodily and judge the world, assigning the unbeliever to condemnation and eternal conscious punishment and the believer to eternal blessedness and joy with the Lord in the new heaven and the new earth, to the praise of His glorious grace.
Official Statement of Faith (with Scripture references)


[h=2]IM NEW HERE[/h]

 
Butterfly said:
I am Missouri Synod, and we are much more geared to Grace, rather than fear of God or guilt.
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A much happier direction, for sure. I attended a few of the services at my wife's church. I must have chanted "love and fear God" fifty times during each service. I can only say that my wife was riddled with guilt throughout her childhood, because she failed to pray one night for her grandfather, who died of a heart attack at work the next day.
 

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