School shooting in Nashville!!

[win231]

I still don’t understand your anger towards the parents. You were successful, because you were trying very hard and eventually it worked. Why do you think that they weren’t. The little factual knowledge I‘ve seen is that they found a gun and made her sell it.

When it comes to parents who have kids with mental issues, parents are often in denial. I've witnessed it.
A few years ago, at a shooting range, I was chatting with a father whose daughter had Autism. The father was watching me shoot & during a break, he said, "Hey, you're pretty good; I'd like some advice. My daughter is 10. What kind of gun would you recommend for her? She's autistic, so I was thinking something simple like a revolver."
I said, "Well, maybe a different hobby would be better for her."
He got angry & said "Oh, man," & walked away.
Parents of kids with mental issues often try to erase the stigma of mental illness & prove their kid is "normal" by encouraging them to do things that are inappropriate for them, then bragging about it. Like Adam Lanza's mother - who bought guns & ammunition for him.

 

[George1959]

This group seems to bear a particular hatred for Christians and they also seem to think all Christians are alike.

The school Audrey Hale attacked is Presbyterian. I grew up Presbyterian, one of the most liberal denominations and leaders in the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's along with Methodists and Jewish people.

From their website stated in 2018:

With an estimated 1.3 million members, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) in the past decade has voted to allow the ordination of LGBTQIA+ people, to permit the performing of same-sex marriages in church buildings and by Presbyterian ministers, and to commit to advocacy for equal rights in church and society for all ****** orientations and gender identities.

This is strange. Perhaps (I'm often using this word in the thread, since I don't know the motives) Hale didn't know it and perhaps she got bullied while she attended the school. What about the manifesto? The newspapers mention it in the headlines but are only beating around the bush if you read their articles.
The New York Post writes:
"Swope told The Post that Hale had “looked at” two other schools, both public, before deciding “the security was too great to do what she wanted to do.”
“So she chose a private Christian school, for, probably the reason is that the security is a whole lot less,” he went on.

Only for this reason?

 

[win231]

I had a coworker who was divorced because her husband was in & out of rehab because he couldn't stop snorting cocaine.
She knew I was a competitive shooter & she told me her ex husband had to transfer his firearms to someone else because he was a convicted felon & was no longer permitted to own them. He gave them to their son who was 22. She suggested I take him to the range because he wanted to shoot. I went to their house to meet the son & check out the guns - a shotgun & 2 handguns.
I could tell something wasn't right with him. I asked his mother about it. She said, "Oh, he has Attention Deficit Disorder; it's nothing & besides, he's on medication for it."
Well, while we were checking out the guns, he said, "Ya know....I'd really like to know what it's like to shoot someone in the head; that would really be cool."
In private, I told his mother what he said & I also told her she's contributing to disaster by letting him have firearms.
She got mad at me & said, "Oh, please," & she never spoke to me again.

 

[Remy]

I've had trouble holding jobs, but I've always supported myself. It was either that or become homeless.

I can't even tell you the jobs I kept and hated. Because I needed that job. Before I graduated college in my 30's, I had trouble finding work. Always someone who looked a lot better than me to hire.

 

[Remy]

I had a coworker who was divorced because her husband was in & out of rehab because he couldn't stop snorting cocaine.
She knew I was a competitive shooter & she told me her ex husband had to transfer his firearms to someone else because he was a convicted felon & was no longer permitted to own them. He gave them to their son who was 22. She suggested I take him to the range because he wanted to shoot. I went to their house to meet the son & check out the guns - a shotgun & 2 handguns.
I could tell something wasn't right with him. I asked his mother about it. She said, "Oh, he has Attention Deficit Disorder; it's nothing & besides, he's on medication for it."
Well, while we were checking out the guns, he said, "Ya know....I'd really like to know what it's like to shoot someone in the head; that would really be cool."
In private, I told his mother what he said & I also told her she's contributing to disaster by letter him have firearms.
She got mad at me & said, "Oh, please," & she never spoke to me again.

I'm experienced with the enabling and denial mentality. I don't have their brains, I can't imagine how they process what they allow or deny. It is it's own wonder. I'll never understand it.

That was actually a frightening experience win.

 

[Remy]

When it comes to parents who have kids with mental issues, parents are often in denial. I've witnessed it.
A few years ago, at a shooting range, I was chatting with a father whose daughter had Autism. The father was watching me shoot & during a break, he said, "Hey, you're pretty good; I'd like some advice. My daughter is 10. What kind of gun would you recommend for her? She's autistic, so I was thinking something simple like a revolver."
I said, "Well, maybe a different hobby would be better for her."
He got angry & said "Oh, man," & walked away.
Parents of kids with mental issues often try to erase the stigma of mental illness & prove their kid is "normal" by encouraging them to do things that are inappropriate for them, then bragging about it. Like Adam Lanza's mother - who bought guns & ammunition for him.

YES YES YES YES YES. Here is a problem. Denial.

I know little about autism. I can imagine that accomplishment is helpful for them. Like anyone. But how about a hobby, a vegetable garden. Anything!

 

[WhatInThe]

I can't even tell you the jobs I kept and hated. Because I needed that job. Before I graduated college in my 30's, I had trouble finding work. Always someone who looked a lot better than me to hire.

That's the thing too interpret/misinterpret an undesired outcome as a catastrophe. When things don't go their way-catastrophe. With jobs the lesson is simple. Sometimes you have to work 'a' job to live rather than live to work(in a career of your chosing). But that's all it is-a job, the rest of the day is yours.

Not every second of every day is going to be fun or euphoric. Move on to the next day or something else.

Same lesson apply to school and teachers. If one graduated there is no reason to worry about a grudge or bad teacher which there are plenty. Her and other killers seem to never get over their school years. School for what ever reason was an ordeal for them. Just pass, graduate and do what you want after. That's the message adults if not teachers should be sending. Can't waste time on adversarial relationships in school which I've saw more than once.

 

[hawkdon]

Seems to me these shooters have so much hate in their hearts,
that they cannot reason out why not to do the act. But of course they commit the act towards those who cannot defend themselves.

 

[Alligatorob]

As for preventing that first murder, the solution is better mental health care. And better mental health care does not mean more drug prescribing (which obviously makes the problem worse). But those solutions cost money & that's probably why they are not considered.

Thanks @win231 . I'd be interested in knowing what some of the folks here who have some expertise with mental health think of that. How practical is it to identify potential perpetrators and treat them to reduce the risk of them murdering someone? I know @Shalimar has some relevant experience, and am sure there are others.

I know it would be expensive, but we spend a lot of government money to save lives in other ways. EPA currently uses a value of $7.4 million per life saved for its efforts ( https://www.epa.gov/environmental-economics/mortality-risk-valuation#whatisvsl ). We have about 20,000 gun related homicides per year. If we just targeted a 10% decline that would be almost $15 billion dollars, if it worked. And I think saving people from homicide is as important as saving us from environmental toxins.

Could we save a life from homicide for $7.4 million?

 

[Pepper]

I think the shooter wanted to be male not for a sex/gender thing, but in thinking men have power, men can be violent; "I Want to Be That; I have no control over my life I want power" and saw wrongfully that being female meant weakness.

 

[Remy]

I think the shooter wanted to be male not for a sex/gender thing, but in thinking men have power, men can be violent; "I Want to Be That; I have no control over my life I want power" and saw wrongfully that being female meant weakness.

There is something at play in so many people being trans and I think you have touched on it here. I have watched some de-trans videos. A YouTube channel I started watching because he did a series on the Evergreen State College 'protests' when he was a student there has interviewed a number of de-trans people. Their stories can be heartbreaking. One woman was sexually abused when young, so her solution to protect herself, was to become male. She realized, she is a female.

Several have mentioned internet rabbit holes that state if someone is unhappy with their life or body (many young people are, it's normal) you are trans.

 

[Pepper]

If this Audrey Hale did not kill people, especially children! I would have felt great sympathy for one so desperate.

 

[hollydolly]

I think the shooter wanted to be male not for a sex/gender thing, but in thinking men have power, men can be violent; "I Want to Be That; I have no control over my life I want power" and saw wrongfully that being female meant weakness.

if she did think that, she was woefully way off the mark... even in the animal kingdom the female is the stronger species...

However I don't think she could have thought that ..only cowards use guns against innocent children.. so she could have worn her grannies bloomers.. and a tutu.. she would still have been a complete killer.. and a danger to society

 

[SeniorBen]

The gun fetish in America is part of the problem. We need to stop glamorizing gun ownership. If you need a gun for protection, fine, but this is ridiculous. People like this are part of the problem. The guy on the bottom left is a Representative from Kentucky: the state that just passed anti-trans legislation.

 

[Della]

I'm the first to agree that we need more and better health care for the mentally ill, and I agree that it's foolish to have guns around a person with mental illness, but let's remember that only five percent of mass murders are caused by the mentally ill.

I doubt if we could ever determine who the perpetrators will be ahead of time. Often it's a first offense, or the perpetrator has only recently become ill and the people around him have just begun to notice something is wrong. Schizophrenia usually starts at college age and the parents aren't around and the other kids think he/she is just drunk or on something.

The whole idea of watching each other for "red flags," really bothers me. Teachers and doctors are mandated reporters and that's good, but I really don't want to live in a world where my neighbors are watching me and calling the cops because I didn't leave the house for two weeks and then went out to the mail box in my pajamas.

 

[win231]

I'm the first to agree that we need more and better health care for the mentally ill, and I agree that it's foolish to have guns around a person with mental illness, but let's remember that only five percent of mass murders are caused by the mentally ill.

I doubt if we could ever determine who the perpetrators will be ahead of time. Often it's a first offense, or the perpetrator has only recently become ill and the people around him have just begun to notice something is wrong. Schizophrenia usually starts at college age and the parents aren't around and the other kids think he/she is just drunk or on something.

The whole idea of watching each other for "red flags," really bothers me. Teachers and doctors are mandated reporters and that's good, but I really don't want to live in a world where my neighbors are watching me and calling the cops because I didn't leave the house for two weeks and then went out to the mail box in my pajamas.

I don't think anyone would call the cops on you because you went out in your pajamas.
But they might if you forgot your pajamas.

 

[win231]

Seems to me these shooters have so much hate in their hearts,
that they cannot reason out why not to do the act. But of course they commit the act towards those who cannot defend themselves.

Exactly. That's why thinking people don't want to be those who cannot defend themselves.

 

[Disgustedman]

The whole idea of watching each other for "red flags," really bothers me. Teachers and doctors are mandated reporters and that's good, but I really don't want to live in a world where my neighbors are watching me and calling the cops because I didn't leave the house for two weeks and then went out to the mail box in my pajamas.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active-shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf/view

 

[squatting dog]

 

[win231]

YES YES YES YES YES. Here is a problem. Denial.

I know little about autism. I can imagine that accomplishment is helpful for them. Like anyone. But how about a hobby, a vegetable garden. Anything!

For parents like this, a garden isn't a big enough deal to brag about. But (in their minds), "My kid is so wonderful, he's able to handle guns safely" is much more impressive.

 

[SeniorBen]

A few facts about mass shootings....

• A study by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) found that between 2001 and 2015, 21% of domestic terrorist attacks in the United States were committed by individuals with military experience.
• A study by the Center for American Progress analyzed 156 mass shootings in the United States between 2009 and 2016 and found that 22% of the shooters purchased multiple firearms before the attack.
• A study by researchers at Georgia State University and Texas State University examined 323 mass shootings in the United States between 2006 and 2013 and found that 62% of the shooters were not married at the time of their attack.
• A study by researchers at Georgia State University and Texas State University examined 323 mass shootings in the United States between 2006 and 2013 and found that 79% of the shooters were unemployed at the time of their attack.
• A study by researchers at Texas State University and the University of Alabama examined 155 mass shootings in the United States between 1966 and 2016 and found that the highest number of attacks occurred between 9 a.m. and 11 a.m.
• Between January 1, 2013, and March 30, 2023, there were a total of 87 mass shootings in the United States in which five or more people were killed. Of those 87 mass shootings, an AR-15-style rifle was reportedly used in 19 incidents, or approximately 21.8%.

 

[win231]

A few facts about mass shootings....

• A study by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) found that between 2001 and 2015, 21% of domestic terrorist attacks in the United States were committed by individuals with military experience.
• A study by the Center for American Progress analyzed 156 mass shootings in the United States between 2009 and 2016 and found that 22% of the shooters purchased multiple firearms before the attack.
• A study by researchers at Georgia State University and Texas State University examined 323 mass shootings in the United States between 2006 and 2013 and found that 62% of the shooters were not married at the time of their attack.
• A study by researchers at Georgia State University and Texas State University examined 323 mass shootings in the United States between 2006 and 2013 and found that 79% of the shooters were unemployed at the time of their attack.
• A study by researchers at Texas State University and the University of Alabama examined 155 mass shootings in the United States between 1966 and 2016 and found that the highest number of attacks occurred between 9 a.m. and 11 a.m.
• Between January 1, 2013, and March 30, 2023, there were a total of 87 mass shootings in the United States in which five or more people were killed. Of those 87 mass shootings, an AR-15-style rifle was reportedly used in 19 incidents, or approximately 21.8%.

So, to avoid being a mass shooter:
Stay out of the military.
Only purchase one firearm.
Get married & stay married.
Have a job.
Stay in bed until 11:01 am.
Only own bolt action or lever action rifles.

 

[Della]

• A study by researchers at Texas State University and the University of Alabama examined 155 mass shootings in the United States between 1966 and 2016 and found that the highest number of attacks occurred between 9 a.m. and 11 a.m.

So it's not the drugs it's the coffee!

I agree about the problem of parents in denial. I was sorry Adam Lanza shot his mother before going to Sandy Hook elementary because I wanted her to live and answer for her incredibly stupid decision to buy guns for her son who was so disturbed he hadn't left his bedroom in years. In my house we not only don't have guns, we don't have knives except for one small paring knife and yes I can carve a turkey with that thing.

But I think there's another type of denial going on. With 54% of the 45,000 gun deaths in 2020 being suicide by gun, clearly it's not just the mentally ill who shouldn't have guns in the house. If you have anyone in your house with a gambling problem, anyone with serious financial problems, anyone unemployed, a teenager of any type, then you should think twice about having that gun easily accessible.

 

[hollydolly]

A few days ago, a young man was shot to death on his doorstep, and then a few miles away his father was also shot and killed..

....in 2 separate English villages here in the South.. something that is so rare here, it hit the headlines, and it was stated that this was thought to be a feud over a custody battle...

Today the murderers have been Arrested... An AMERICAN.. from Ohio... working at an American Air base here.. his wife..and her father!!

The murdered baby's father...

A British woman, her US serviceman husband and her father have all been arrested over the 'targeted' double shooting of her ex-lover and his father in a row over custody of her son

Samantha Stephen, her husband Paul Stephen - a serviceman from Ohio who works for the US Airforce based at RAF Mildenhall in Suffolk - and her father Stephen Alderton are being questioned by detectives after the killing of her former partner Joshua Dunmore and his father Gary Dunmore.

The Dunmores were gunned down in separate attacks in two villages in Cambridgeshire six miles apart on Wednesday night in a custody battle, police revealed yesterday.

Joshua, 32, was found dead at a house in an upmarket newbuild estate in Bluntisham after police received reports of gunshots. Around half an hour later, his father Gary, 57, was also found dead at his flat in Sutton.

The three suspects, aged 33, 27 and 66, are accused of conspiring to murder the father and son.

The Killers.....

Paul Stephen Back right, an American from OHIO.. his wife.. and her father...

Good god, a father and son are dead because an American doesn't know how to go to court over custody like normal people in the UK ... makes you sick..

 

[rgp]

A few days ago, a young man was shot to death on his doorstep, and then a few miles away his father was also shot and killed..

....in 2 separate English villages here in the South.. something that is so rare here, it hit the headlines, and it was stated that this was thought to be a feud over a custody battle...

Today the murderers have been Arrested... An AMERICAN.. for Ohio... working at an American Air base here.. his wife..and her father!!

The murdered baby's father...

A British woman, her US serviceman husband and her father have all been arrested over the 'targeted' double shooting of her ex-lover and his father in a row over custody of her son, MailOnline can exclusively reveal.

Samantha Stephen, her husband Paul Stephen - a serviceman from Ohio who works for the US Airforce based at RAF Mildenhall in Suffolk - and her father Stephen Alderton are being questioned by detectives after the killing of her former partner Joshua Dunmore and his father Gary Dunmore.

The Dunmores were gunned down in separate attacks in two villages in Cambridgeshire six miles apart on Wednesday night in a custody battle, police revealed yesterday.

Joshua, 32, was found dead at a house in an upmarket newbuild estate in Bluntisham after police received reports of gunshots. Around half an hour later, his father Gary, 57, was also found dead at his flat in Sutton.

The three suspects, aged 33, 27 and 66, are accused of conspiring to murder the father and son.

The Killers.....

Paul Stephen Back right, an American from OHIO.. his wife.. and her father...

Good god, a father and son are dead because an American doesn't know how to go to court over custody like normal people in the UK ... makes you sick..

Let me see if I understand ..... two of the three 'killers' are British , one is American, ..... but it is the American's fault ?