Perspective on US and homicide

Born_To_Lose said:
Since you people donā€™t know me, I will tell everyone here that my brother is in prison for life because he killed 3 men. Thatā€™s when we moved and not just a town or 2 away. We moved across country. My dad even thought about changing our last name, but mom fought him on that. I see him twice a year. At Christmas and on his birthday. Thatā€™s all I am allowed. (Prison rule) Heā€™s at the ADX prison in Florence, Colorado and will never be released. In case you donā€™t know what ADX is, itā€™s the only Supermax prison in the U.S. He was in another prison, but had to be moved for reasons I will not discuss. There are only about 340 prisoners in ADX. I really donā€™t like going there. Those guys give me the creeps, including the guards. Everyone with a uniform on us carrying a rifle.

He was originally given the death penalty, but the appeals court sent the sentence back to the original court for resentencing because the Judge did not give the jury the correct instructions before allowing them to decide his fate. I donā€™t know much about all that went on because my mom and dad kept it all very secretive and wouldnā€™t allow us kids to attend any of the court sessions, except for the 1 that I had to testify. I know my parents spent about a million dollars for his defense and his appeals.

After he went away, we put the house up for sale and we left town a week later without saying goodby to anyone, even before our house was sold. We just packed some clothes like we were going on vacation and left. My parents were afraid that the kids in school would make our lives miserable, but instead, they were very nice to us and so were the teachers. When we got to our new city or area where we were going to live, we stayed in a hotel for almost a month before we were able to move into the house mom and dad picked out. My dad then went into depression for a few months, but he soon came around to being our dad again. We never spoke about our brother, unless something really bad happened and then it was a very short conversation. I hope none of you are or ever will experience this type of situation.
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I know you. Youā€™ve written books about this. I read one of them. We even talked about this. This is a horrible situation you had to endure and I know how much it affected your life. I also hope none of us have to experience anything like what you went through. I hope you are doing a bit better as time passes.
 
Packerjohn said:
Man! They say some families have "black sheep." Your brother is a prime example of the "blacker then night" variety.
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It shocked all of us. My dad spent time in the hospital and my one sister wouldnā€™t come out of her bedroom for almost a week. We had several state police and FBI cars and men all over our house. I was playing pickup basketball with some other boys at the local park and decided to leave. When I got to my house, I saw a lot of cars and when I started walking in the front yard to go around to the back door, which is how we were told to enter the house after playing, the next thing I knew, a cop grabbed me by the back of my collar and started yelling at me to put my arms out to my side. My mom wouldnā€™t stop crying and I had to call the doctor who was a friend of the family and he came over and gave mom some medicine to make her sleep.

The next day when I woke up, I thought maybe I dreamed everything, but I knew it was real. My dad, who was normally a very strong man, started talking to himself. Mom told me later on that he did that after WWII. I called the doctor again and he said he would come at lunchtime. He told dad he should go to the hospital and rest for awhile. Dad said he couldnā€™t because of the kids, but mom was better and my one sister told dad to go and get some rest. After about a week, things were better for all of us, but dad said we would all be better off if we left here and moved elsewhere. So we did almost 2 weeks later. My brother is 8 years older than me. I am the baby of the family.

And thatā€™s that.
 

PeppermintPatty said:
Perhaps if there was more self flagellation concerning this specific topic, changes might actually happen.

I understand this is a US based forum so my opinions arenā€™t much appreciated but if together as a country, you wanted change, doesnā€™t it need to start with self first ?
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Ahhhh, you can tell you are not from the US.
You are right, but that view isn't shared by the US mainstream media.
We are told its the gun, not the person.
Anything that points back to 'self' is quickly deflected to someone or something else, not personal responsibility.
 
Amelia B said:
I appreciate everybodyā€™s thoughtful and interesting answers to this post. I actually posted that chart because I tend to have a lot of anxiety and I catastrophize when I see the news and so this chart really calmed me down. I thought we were much worse off than we actually are.šŸ˜Š
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Just be cautious of what you read from the UN. Look at the participating countries. Many members are Communist, dictatorships, that do awful things to their people.
 
El Salvador recently built a mega prison recently, and are putting thousands of really bad people in there. It is like a bare warehouse. They have made videos of ushering in these guys dressed only in shorts stacked together. It is also part of a public relations campaign to shock all bad guys, like scared straight on steroids. One of the articles I read said crime rates are dropping drastically.
 
Sippican said:
Ahhhh, you can tell you are not from the US.
You are right, but that view isn't shared by the US mainstream media.
We are told its the gun, not the person.
Anything that points back to 'self' is quickly deflected to someone or something else, not personal responsibility.
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You canā€™t say that!šŸ˜lol
 
Born To Lose: I canā€™t find any words that would make you feel better. Did this happen some time ago? I have visited a Federal prison and they are a lot nicer than a state prison, but how old is your brother? I canā€™t imagine being in prison for the rest of my life. I think prisoners stay in their cell 23 hours a day and they get to shower 2 or 3 times a week. I guess your brother has no chance for parole?
 
Do NOT worry about murder rates. They are a drop in the bucket compared to national wars. Estimates of total dead in World War II vary anywhere from 35,000,000 to 60,000,000.

More die in ONE DAY in real wars than all the civilian murders in history.

All the AR-15's in the world kill LESS than the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima. WW III may see half of all humans killed.

If we want to stop crime, just sentence all the criminals to serve in suicide missions in combat. Most of those criminals would die in their first mission.
 
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Murrmurr said:
El C, not intelligence. "Mental state" would work, but a "violent nature" has very little to do with ones level of intelligence. Some of America's most prolific serial killers are highly intelligent men (or were, if they've been put to death already).

When the justice system even bothers to assess the mental state of someone who has committed a murder, they often find that the murderer has a mental disorder or is deeply emotionally disturbed.
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No doubt there are exceptions, but on the whole there are numerous indications linking lower intelligence with a higher incidence of crime.

ā€œLower IQ was associated with violence perpetration in the UK general population. Further studies are warranted to assess how low IQ can lead to violence perpetration, and whether interventions are possible for this high-risk group.ā€
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...l-population/AF21CE0AEDE9FFB0BC44AA1D059CF735

This subject has a political aspect, so I suggest we just leave it as a disagreement.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
You canā€™t say that!šŸ˜lol
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You laugh, but you are so right.
Free speech has slowly been taken away (or so they think).
As we get older, I realize I can say anything that is the truth. If it gets blocked, or I get slapped on the wrist, I don't care.
But, these day, any open dialog is met with distain and the ones speaking truths, get yelled down, beaten, and jailed. Yes, even in America.
Its sad, so that one of the reasons getting old isn't so bad. Our children will have to live with a suppressed society, and even worse.
 
ElCastor said:
No doubt there are exceptions, but on the whole there are numerous indications linking lower intelligence with a higher incidence of crime.

ā€œLower IQ was associated with violence perpetration in the UK general population. Further studies are warranted to assess how low IQ can lead to violence perpetration, and whether interventions are possible for this high-risk group.ā€
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...l-population/AF21CE0AEDE9FFB0BC44AA1D059CF735

This subject has a political aspect, so I suggest we just leave it as a disagreement.
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Your last statement is the root of problems in the world. Acceptance is agreement.
 
ElCastor said:
Lower IQ was associated with violence perpetration in the UK general population
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I think that is probably true everywhere. Always suspected it was because lower IQ folks had less ability to find non violent solutions to things, but I am no expert. I realized it after watching a few reality shows about real crime and criminals. Nothing like the more interesting fictional criminals we see on shows like Law and Order or CSI...

Fortunately most people, of any IQ, manage to live happy lives without resorting to violence.

Whatā€™s the link between intelligence and violent behaviour?
https://sacsconsult.com.au/blog/whats-link-intelligence-violent-behaviour/
 
David777 said:
As we Earth monkeys continue with global Wall Street driven runaway wealth seeking, it will accelerate overpopulating our fragile blue water planet, destroy environments, with homicide rates continuing to rise as well as chaos driving wars, pandemics, starvation and general moral and ethical decay.
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put very succinctly !!
 
Alligatorob said:
You are right of course, the US is still a relatively safe place for most people. However, if you look at your chart our murder rate is higher than most westernized affluent democracies. Still too high.

I think the US Virgin Islands crime rate can be very interestingly compared to the British Virgin Islands. The British Virgin Islands have a very similar demographic, there has been lots of movement back and forth many people have relatives on both sides. However the BVI has much lower crime rates, for example murder rates about 5 times lower.

Does not speak well of US vs BVI social and legal conditions...
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Interesting.

I was going to suggest that nations with very low populations might seem to have a high murder rate with very few actual deaths. That is just basic maths. However, a comparison between US Virgin Islands and British Virgin Islands ought to look quite similar. If they don't I suggest it might be worth doing a comparison study to discover the reasons for the disparity.
 
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Warrigal said:
a comparison between US Virgin Islands and British Virgin Islands ought to be look quite similar. If they don't I suggest it might be worth doing a comparison study to discover the reasons for the disparity.
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Having been to both I have a theory, could be wrong I am no expert. These are just my little researched observations, so may not agree with facts.

The BVI has very strict law enforcement and the people know they depend on tourism, mostly boaters for their existence. They also don't allow cruise ships to dock (or didn't when I was there) or "resorts" owned by non-BVI entities. Also the BVI is not really a part of Britain anymore, they have to sink or swim on their own. And they seem to me to have very well figured out how to swim.

The US Virgin Islands are still a part of the US and a kind of welfare state... law enforcement is not very effective. A lot of the nicer beaches belong to the big resorts, like Marriott. They are fenced to keep the locals out and many of their employees come from outside of the Virgin Islands.

I suspect the gun laws are different, but I don't know.

I much prefer the BVI.
 
Sippican said:
You laugh, but you are so right.
Free speech has slowly been taken away (or so they think).
As we get older, I realize I can say anything that is the truth. If it gets blocked, or I get slapped on the wrist, I don't care.
But, these day, any open dialog is met with distain and the ones speaking truths, get yelled down, beaten, and jailed. Yes, even in America.
Its sad, so that one of the reasons getting old isn't so bad. Our children will have to live with a suppressed society, and even worse.
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I laugh because I find this entire conversation insanely hypocritical. Not the one Iā€™m currently having with you . Itā€™s in the political area , and just not worth discussing for me. There are healthier areas to be putting my energy and this isnā€™t one of them.
 
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