For those vaccinated for covid 19, a question.

I got the vaccine and 3 or 4 boosters. I took my doctor’s advice because I trust her. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t be seeing her. She recommended the shots for me because I have asthma. As far as I know, I still have never had COVID or maybe it was so mild I didn’t notice. Nothing has changed for me health wise, so I haven’t had any effects from the vaccine.
 

Murrmurr said:
Two things went wrong with that.

The mRna caused the immune system to go into over-drive, and it leeched through blood vessels, bringing the spike protein with it. The most frequent side-effect of that was blood clots and embolisms.

In hundreds of thousands of people who were vaccinated, those side-effects ranged from bad to deadly.
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I know. One of my vaxxed friends now has blood clots in her legs unresponsive to traditional treatment. :( I think it's from all the vaccines and boosters but don't say so to her face. She never mentions the vaccine in relation to her clots.
 
bobcat48 said:
Well, here is a basic simplified description.
Our cells have RNA that are messengers. They tell our cells what proteins to make to aid in digestion and basic bodily functions.
The coronovirus also is RNA and has a characteristic spike on it's surface that works like grappling hooks to latch onto cells.
It also has a tricky way to suppress the immune system causing it to stand down so it is not eliminated, and it hijacks the cells.

The mRNA vaccine is engineered to cause your cell to produce proteins that resemble the spikes of the coronovirus, only it doesn't suppress the immune system, which identifies these as invaders, and it dispatches them, but it also remembers and watches for those in the future.
The mRNA that is injected has a very short life span, just long enough to tell the cells what protein to produce, and it gets eliminated by the body.
The discomfort that most people feel to lesser or greater degrees is their immune system at work. This is also what many experience with flu shots or shingles vaccines.
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I understand mRNA but believe there is no ONE "science" pertaining to a health issue. For every health issue you come across you'll find people who have cured themselves by doing the opposite of what "science" recommends or maybe they embarked on a course of treatment that no one had yet thought of.

I asked these questions of the vaccinated because I want to learn from people, not in my area what their experiences have been and what they foresee going forward. If you don't ask, you cannot learn. The best tools we have to progress regarding diseases like covid 19 are communication and respect to the point of refraining from judgment over a person's individual choice regarding a health issue even if it's one someone else violently disagrees with. We're all adults here. We can do this. :)
 

Murrmurr said:
Two things went wrong with that.

The mRna caused the immune system to go into over-drive, and it leeched through blood vessels, bringing the spike protein with it. The most frequent side-effect of that was blood clots and embolisms.

In hundreds of thousands of people who were vaccinated, those side-effects ranged from bad to deadly.
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Although it is rare, according to a study of 3 million vaccinated people, it is 28 to 32 times more likely to happen with people who contract Covid 19, so it's really a judgment call. Even taking birth control pills can lead to heart attack, stroke, blood clots, and death. Again, it is rare, but it happens. Personally, I viewed the dangers from contracting Covid to be much more threatening, so I went with it, but that's just me. I understand and respect other's point of view.
 
chic said:
I understand mRNA but believe there is no ONE "science" pertaining to a health issue. For every health issue you come across you'll find people who have cured themselves by doing the opposite of what "science" recommends or maybe they embarked on a course of treatment that no one had yet thought of.

I asked these questions of the vaccinated because I want to learn from people, not in my area what their experiences have been and what they foresee going forward. If you don't ask, you cannot learn. The best tools we have to progress regarding diseases like covid 19 are communication and respect to the point of refraining from judgment over a person's individual choice regarding a health issue even if it's one someone else violently disagrees with. We're all adults here. We can do this. :)
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Oh sure. As I mentioned, this was just my view, and after studying it, it made sense to me. If individuals choose another route, and it works for them, then I think that's terrific. You asked what the science was, so I was just offering that.
 
chic said:
Can you do that? Remove yourself from a covid vaccine database?
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You can here....the guy at the appointment centre told me he could do it for me so I did.
Partly because they moved the vaccination centre to somewhere difficult for non-drivers to get to.
Would have taken me three buses!
 
I was on the fence about getting the vaccination.
My sister who is an RN implored me to get it, so I did.
Ended up getting 3 jabs and said "that's it, enough".

The military pumped me full of stuff due to participation in various efforts around the world.
Half the time I didn't really even know what I was taking or given.
Thing is, while I never get a flu shot anymore, I haven't so much as had a cold since retiring from the military in 2006.

I started seeing young people who had been vaccinated for COVID, dying.
Told my sister I wasn't going to get any more boosters ... she didn't try to change my mind.
 
bobcat48 said:
Although it is rare, according to a study of 3 million vaccinated people, it is 28 to 32 times more likely to happen with people who contract Covid 19, so it's really a judgment call. Even taking birth control pills can lead to heart attack, stroke, blood clots, and death. Again, it is rare, but it happens. Personally, I viewed the dangers from contracting Covid to be much more threatening, so I went with it, but that's just me. I understand and respect other's point of view.
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Data shows those side-effects are most likely to occur in patients with obesity, diabetes, and chronic respiratory disease, and the elderly. Cardiac side-effects occurred most often among male patients in their teens and early-to-mid 20s.

It's true most studies and reports liked to use the word "rare," since only 100s of 1000s out of millions of vaccinated people had these side-effects. Personally, I prefer the word "alarming," especially because those demographics were spotted early on, but there were no changes to the list of which should be vaccinated and which shouldn't.
 
chic said:
I know. One of my vaxxed friends now has blood clots in her legs unresponsive to traditional treatment. :( I think it's from all the vaccines and boosters but don't say so to her face. She never mentions the vaccine in relation to her clots.
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In Canada, medical scientists have researched a new treatment that's showing very good data so far.

This Canadian doctor-researcher talks about it in this video (I think. could be the vid he made before this one)...

 
Murrmurr said:
Data shows those side-effects are most likely to occur in patients with obesity, diabetes, and chronic respiratory disease, and the elderly. Cardiac side-effects occurred most often among male patients in their teens and early-to-mid 20s.

It's true most studies and reports liked to use the word "rare," since only 100s of 1000s out of millions of vaccinated people had these side-effects. Personally, I prefer the word "alarming," especially because those demographics were spotted early on, but there were no changes to the list of which should be vaccinated and which shouldn't.
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Well, I saw what happened to both of my neighbors who contracted Covid. One is now dead, and the other was in the hospital on a vent for a time, then on oxygen for a time, and managed to eventually survive. Getting the vaccine was the right choice for me, but perhaps not for others, that's not for me to say.
 
bobcat48 said:
Well, I saw what happened to both of my neighbors who contracted Covid. One is now dead, and the other was in the hospital on a vent for a time, then on oxygen for a time, and managed to eventually survive. Getting the vaccine was the right choice for me, but perhaps not for others, that's not for me to say.
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It saved lives, but it did harm to some. My point is that, as soon as that was verified in early 2022, the vaccine program should have excluded those particular people....at least until further study.
 
People on both sides feel the exact same about their personal covid 19 vaxx decision so it's hard to know what the truth is.

Those vaccinated believe the vaxx helped them survive covid with mild symptoms but that might have happened anyway? We don't know. Just as the unvaxxed who survived covid with mild symptoms believed all along they would be fine even without vaccination. But a belief is not a fact. It may be more powerful, who knows? It's been an interesting response from everyone who has participated and I thank you for your input.:)
 
What we do know, is the unvaccinated died at much higher rates than the vaccinated. That is indisputable.

For example, from March of 2022, the death rate of 65+ yo unvaxxed vs vaxxed and boostered was almost 17x greater. (And this was w 2 years experience treating covid.)

If crossing at a crosswalk reduced your chance of dying by car crash 17x vs jaywalking would you continue to jaywalk?

Covid322.jpg
 
againstthegrain said:
What we do know, is the unvaccinated died at much higher rates than the vaccinated. That is indisputable.

For example, from March of 2022, the death rate of 65+ yo unvaxxed vs vaxxed and boostered was almost 17x greater. (And this was w 2 years experience treating covid.)

If crossing at a crosswalk reduced your chance of dying by car crash 17x vs jaywalking would you continue to jaywalk?

View attachment 292769
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And who controls the CDC's narrative? ;)
 
againstthegrain said:
If crossing at a crosswalk reduced your chance of dying by car crash 17x vs jaywalking would you continue to jaywalk?
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The answer is: "yes, I will jaywalk whenever I please"

Crosswalks are a government mandated restriction on my rights to do what ever I please. The evil retail and restaurant lobbies have forced crosswalks upon us to ensure w have to walk by their businesses in the hope that we'd walk in and buy something because they want to make more money.
 
chic said:
What made you decide to get vaccinated with the covid 19 vaccine? No one knew much about it even in 2021 the year of rollout.

Was it for a health issue? Did you have a job that required vaccination? Would you have been prohibited from travel ? Would you have had to separate from people/groups that you liked? Other? Please share.

Have you received booster shots? How many boosters have you received? How many more will you take?

Are you in any way surprised the unvaccinated are still alive?

Thanks for your participation.
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I had my vaccinations through fear and because I consider myself a responsible sensible person. I wanted to protect my own health and hopefully prevent spreading covid to others.
I had covid last year in spring. Since then I have not felt ever fully well.
 
Alligatorob said:
Hey @chic congrats! You started an active Covid thread, with contributions by people on both sides, without any name calling or attacks! A good thing.

Oh, probably, can't say I am always rational in my decisions...
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Thanks @Alligatorob It has gone better than expected for sure. All that hatred and name calling is just a stupid distraction anyway. :giggle:
 
Murrmurr said:
Two things went wrong with that.

The mRna caused the immune system to go into over-drive, and it leeched through blood vessels, bringing the spike protein with it. The most frequent side-effect of that was blood clots and embolisms.

In hundreds of thousands of people who were vaccinated, those side-effects ranged from bad to deadly.
Click to expand...
Maybe.....not. #1, don't forget studies of COVID (and its variants) aftereffects AND the comparable statistics between the vaxxed who fall ill of disease vs the unvaxxed who fall ill of the identical disease, are still ongoing. IOW, if you take a large enough group, there will be people who will be diagnosed with the disease whether or not they received a COVID vaccine.

Then the question becomes, did the vaccines* enable a milder outcome, or set off a more severe, possibly fatal, result? As of March 2022 UNMC Nebraska (one of the highest-rated regional hospitals in the US) lists 57% of the world's population as vaxxed, or 11 BILLION people.
* don't forget there are multiple brands of COVID vaccines, so statistics will vary.

Some excerpts from their study:
  • Viral infections, like COVID-19, can cause myocarditis. If COVID-19 causes you to seek care, your risk of myocarditis rises. The CDC reports COVID-19 patients had 16 times higher myocarditis risk compared to patients without COVID-19.
    -150 myocarditis cases per 100K patients who caught COVID
    - 9 myocarditis cases per 100K patients w/o COVID
Thus, if you don't get vaxxed, maybe you'll be fine. But if you DO develop COVID, you have a 16x better chance of developing heart-related issues. The conclusion was: "The risk of damage from the virus is much greater than the risk of damage from the vaccines. These vaccines will protect you from heart problems due to COVID-19 infection."
  • Clots: The UNMC report summarized a very technical study published in The Lancet, the premier peer-reviewed global journal. There are 2 types referenced: cerebral venous thrombosis (CVT; brain clots) and portal vein thrombosis (PVT; clots elsewhere in the body).
" In a large electronic health records network, the absolute incidence of CVT and PVT in the 14 days after COVID-19 diagnosis was 42.8 cases and 392.3 cases per million patients respectively. The incidence rapidly decreased in the following weeks, compatible with a causal link between COVID-19 and those thrombotic events.

The incidence of CVT and PVT after COVID-19 is substantially greater than in the matched control cohorts (the unvaxxed group). The incidence of CVT after a diagnosis of COVID-19 is also substantially greater than the expected incidence in the general population in the USA, estimated to be between 0.53 and 0.77 per million people in any 2-week period and the rate is significantly higher than the highest of these estimates. "

The Lancet paper notes that the percentage of reported clotting problems was higher with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. The UNMC study reported that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which came to the US market last due to its use of traditional (non-mRNA) process, has had the most serious side effects, specifically:
  • Blood clots in the brain, abdomen and legs, along with low levels of platelets – the blood cells that help your body stop bleeding – have occurred in a small number of people who have received the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine. This outcome is very rare. Called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS), this occurs in 3.8 cases per million people who receive the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. This means 0.00038% of people who get vaccinated with J&J experience TTS. Approximately 19 million people received the J&J vaccine before it was pulled off the market, when it was determined women between ages 18-48 were at high risk for rare blood clots after receiving the J&J shot.
The UNMC Nebraska report is here: COVID-19 vaccine statistics: Rare side effects
 
My daughter signed me up for every Covid vaccine coming up…even got the flu and pneumonia for the first time and what the heck through in shingrix for good measure..got to be safe at 75…going to the mail box every day hoping to get my reward for Pin Cushion of the year 🤣
 
I got the two vaccines (and every booster that has come out since) both for my own well-being and because my 95-year-old mother was dying and wanted to die at home under our care. I could not take the chance that I could give it to her and have her be in the hospital without us being there with her at all times.

I still got Covid in 2022, but it was a mild case, presumably because of the vaccines and boosters.

I do not regret getting the shots.
 
I had cancer and was undergoing treatment, so I've had the original 2 vaccines, and all the boosters. I have not had Covid, but that may be because for nearly 2 years I never went anywhere except to be treated for cancer.

I don't go to very many places now, and when I must do so, I wear an N95 mask.
 
In simple terms, if I was in the water and in danger of drowning and someone threw me a lifeline, I wouldn't hang around until they had provided all the available safety data for it. I had two shots and a booster with no ill effects. Of course, we couldn't travel much or go places like the theatre, but otherwise most people here seemed to manage some sort of normal life.
 

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