End of the road for Electric Cars ?

I wouldn't be surprised if potential EV buyers are holding off for another year or two to jump in. The range of EV's, because of new battery technology, is set to double very soon. A few will already reach 700 miles between charges, and charge times will also reduce. Prices will also be coming down as well. I think it would benefit one to wait, instead of settling for something half as good.
 

Capt Lightning said:
Over the years, many improvements have been made to conventional IC vehicles to greatly improve their efficiency and reduce emissions, however it appears that micro particles of rubber from the tyres are a bigger pollutant than the exhaust .

An electric car is basically a vehicle with an electric motor and battery rather than an ICE and a fuel tank. Much of the body, mechanics etc still use the same materials - and then there's still the tyres and all those nasty micro particles. Some people look at a bigger picture and talk about the environmental cost of mining Lithium, loss of biodiversity and effect on indigenous people in mining areas. Sounds like we have to destroy the planet to save it ?

Don't worry. Earth will probably be destroyed by insane warmongering dictators long before the last petrol driven car makes its last journey.
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This device captures the microparticles from tires. It could be required on all vehicles some day.
tires.jpg
Invention That Captures Microparticles Released From Car Tires Wins Design Award
 
EV technology isn't where it needs to be yet.
It's too expensive, it's unreliable, and I'm not sure the strip mining etc. is doing the planet any favors.
I think it should continue to be developed and improved, but to outlaw fuel burners will put a lot of people on foot.
City people don't realize there are places where an EV would be a liability.
 
Timewise 60+ said:
The 'Free Market', letting consumers chose, always is the best way for new products to expand into a market. The more our governments try's to force it, the longer it will take for EV's to make it in the marketplace...

Won't they ever learn...
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We will know EVs have made it into the big time when people who buy them don’t need the taxpayers to subsidize their purchase. Besides, the so called incentives actually go to the manufacturers who raise the price to capture most if not all of the incentive.
 
Brookswood said:
We will know EVs have made it into the big time when people who buy them don’t need the taxpayers to subsidize their purchase. Besides, the so called incentives actually go to the manufacturers who raise the price to capture most if not all of the incentive.
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What about taxpayer subsidies to the oil companies?

Taxpayers subsidize the oil industry, primarily through various tax breaks, subsidies, and government incentives. These can include:
  • Tax Deductions and Credits: Oil companies can often deduct costs associated with exploration, drilling, and development. For example, the Intangible Drilling Costs Deduction allows companies to deduct certain costs immediately rather than depreciating them over time, effectively reducing their taxable income.
  • Depletion Allowance: The depletion allowance allows oil companies to deduct a portion of their revenue from wells as they produce oil, offsetting the supposed decline in asset value.
  • Reduced Royalty Rates: On federal land, some oil companies pay reduced royalty rates, which lessens the amount they owe to the government for the resources they extract.
  • Research and Development Funding: Governments occasionally fund or co-fund research projects that benefit the oil industry, especially when exploring ways to reduce environmental impacts.
  • Liability Caps and Environmental Clean-up: Some oil companies benefit from limits on liability for spills and pollution, often leaving the government to cover a portion of the clean-up costs.
 
Auto manufacturers are also heavily taxpayer subsidized.
  • Bailouts and Financial Assistance: During economic downturns, such as the 2008 financial crisis, some governments provided bailouts or loans to prevent major automakers from going bankrupt. This direct financial support helped stabilize the industry during critical times, with significant taxpayer funding allocated to preserve jobs and production capacity.
  • Factory Subsidies and Incentives: Many regions provide tax breaks, grants, or other incentives for automakers to set up factories or expand production facilities, often in exchange for job creation. These subsidies can significantly lower costs for automakers, enabling them to produce vehicles more competitively.
  • Trade Policies and Tariffs: Tariffs or restrictions on imported vehicles and components, while not direct subsidies, often benefit domestic automakers by reducing competition. In some cases, governments negotiate trade deals that can protect or promote domestic manufacturing jobs.

These subsidies are intended to encourage manufacturing, technological development, and economic stability in the automotive sector.
 
I think you're fooling yourself.

These are the same companies. Many have even rebranded themselves as "energy companies" years ago.
 
HermitHogan said:
What about taxpayer subsidies to the oil companies?

Taxpayers subsidize the oil industry, primarily through various tax breaks, subsidies, and government incentives. These can include:
  • Tax Deductions and Credits: Oil companies can often deduct costs associated with exploration, drilling, and development. For example, the Intangible Drilling Costs Deduction allows companies to deduct certain costs immediately rather than depreciating them over time, effectively reducing their taxable income.
  • Depletion Allowance: The depletion allowance allows oil companies to deduct a portion of their revenue from wells as they produce oil, offsetting the supposed decline in asset value.
  • Reduced Royalty Rates: On federal land, some oil companies pay reduced royalty rates, which lessens the amount they owe to the government for the resources they extract.
  • Research and Development Funding: Governments occasionally fund or co-fund research projects that benefit the oil industry, especially when exploring ways to reduce environmental impacts.
  • Liability Caps and Environmental Clean-up: Some oil companies benefit from limits on liability for spills and pollution, often leaving the government to cover a portion of the clean-up costs.
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So what? Oil companies don’t make cars. A better comparison would be subsidies for electrical generation. Electricity is the fuel of EVs.
 
I think the "future" of EV's is a lot further out than most think. Unless, God forbid, some radical politician(s) get together and try to force the change. Easy to do, just add taxes to gasoline, so much that most cannot afford it! But in today's world anyone leading this change will never again be reelected. And they probably would have to move out of the country...

Americans do not like being forced to do anything...it is not in our DNA!
 
My concerns:
  1. Battery life and economical replacement.
  2. Charging time and availability.
  3. Resale value of a car with a battery near its end.
  4. Driving range on a charge.
  5. Safety. When they combust, it is an inferno.
 
Amazing's Electric delivery vans drive by my place, it's on a curve and they always look like their ready to tip on their side.

They have this look on their face, like they hate Kim, when following him.
 
chic said:
Is this supposed to make me feel better? :ROFLMAO:
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It's the 18 wheelers. The I-state passes about a mile away and all night long, all day long, all night long the howl of the Semi tires. The 1000's on 1000's passing each way every day, all day long. The howl, and then count the chunks of rubber, usually 5 - 10 per mile laying on the road.
Then there is the over 3,000,000 Barrels Diesel per day consumed.
 
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hollydolly said:
EV sales fall from a peak of 484,500 in Q4 2023 to just 386,800 in the first quarter of 2024.

Meanwhile, Chinese car manufacturer BYD – ...it sold just over 300,000 EVs – dramatically down from 526,000 in the final quarter of last year.

Similarly, German carmaker Volkswagen sold 239,500 EVs in Q4 2023, but only 136,400 the following quarter, although sales recovered to 180,800 in Q2 this year.
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I'd be suspicious of any data that is comparing apples to oranges like that. Quarter4 is probably always a stronger quarter than quarter 1. I don't know about other places, but in the US I think the new models become available in Q4, and I've always read that people get the best deal on cars in January (I.e., within Q1) because sales are so low that time of year.
 
EV sales will rise when the batteries have a range of 500+ miles, and can be recharged within minutes, instead of hours. There are reports of new battery technology that could achieve such goals, but that will be a few years away. Currently, EV's are practical for those who only drive a few miles/day, and have a home charger. Plus, the price of EV's needs to come down to the same as IC vehicles, Then there is the need for a major upgrade of our electrical grids, and capacities so we don't have to chose between charging a vehicle, or have power for the household needs.
 
Paco Dennis said:
Fortunately or unfortunately EV's are the future.
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If you repeat this enough you might even convince yourself.

But even the automakers here in the US are regretting that they ever took the Danegeld to make a big push for BEVs. Customers are upset, dealers are upset, sales plummeted and the things are rotting on dealer lots. As a result plans are being scaled far back, producing just enough to meet their commitments to the Feds and then they are done with it.

The Japanese makers wised up early and the top tier brands backed away long ago. Even in Europe they've twigged to the issue.
 
dilettante said:
If you repeat this enough you might even convince yourself.

But even the automakers here in the US are regretting that they ever took the Danegeld to make a big push for BEVs. Customers are upset, dealers are upset, sales plummeted and the things are rotting on dealer lots. As a result plans are being scaled far back, producing just enough to meet their commitments to the Feds and then they are done with it.

The Japanese makers wised up early and the top tier brands backed away long ago. Even in Europe they've twigged to the issue.
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For the short term, yes, but not in the near future. The transition is on its way. No way to stop it. Just like AI. :)
 
Paco Dennis said:
Fortunately or unfortunately EV's are the future. It might not be the energy source ( Electricity ) but "something" other than fossil fuel. It is going to take years for it to Q. Maybe 15 years it will be odd to have a gas powered anything.
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Quantum energy. Hydrogen energy. Nuclear fusion.
 

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