Paco Dennis
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- Mid-Missouri
No thank you.You should be thanking him. He's trying to save you from Hell
Another religious thread of speculation
- Thread starter Mr. Ed
- Start date
OK, if that's the way you want to put it.
No, they don't believe. That's is the point. They disbelieve.
Says you?
That's not faith. That is an absence of faith. They already told you that but you think you know what they are thinking better than they do?
I keep telling you, IT IS NOT FAITH.
You are probably confusing non-belief with dis-belief.
OK.
That's fair.
I think so.
How did other creatures get into your conviction? Maybe we need to ask you to explain your belief about ants.
Sure. Why should there be something else? Just because we want there to be something else?
No one has it figured out. That is what they are telling theists.
No, it isn't.
Natural selection.
No, it doesn't.
Why do you instist on including "belief" in everything?
Atheists are not allowed to express their opinion?
I thought the article had an interesting take on everyone is an "atheist" from the perspective of people who have a different religion. Usually hear that expressed as they are "non-believers", but that is the same thing. So a person could be very devout in say Hinduism, and to Christians they would appear to be atheists, and vice versa. I had never thought of it that way.
JustDave
Well-known Member
I've seen that claim in atheist forums, and it's interesting to consider that perspective as being similar to atheism, but I don't know if Christians actually consider believers in the "wrong" gods to be atheists, although the mechanism they use to determine "wrong" gods is the same one atheists use in regards to all gods; That is, Christians just don't believe in some gods.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
The meaning of "Atheist" can also be "lacks belief in the existence of God". If you've seen no evidence, then this seems to be the sensible, and honest conclusion. Hence, discussions take place.
Personally, I'm open to their being a God, I just need evidence. Evidence has been lacking. I don't mind the search, but as yet, nothing. The real issue is entering into discussion with people who aren't searching, and don't want to learn. Those who quote the Bible as though it's an end point, a conclusion within itself. For me, no. It's a book of many authors, some of which we don't know. The Bible alone is proof only of being a book. It's not a convincing argument, or even much of argument at all. I demand more. Let alone random videos posted by no-ones on Youtube. I won't even waste my time with them.
Culture clearly plays a part. A large part. I've loved and worked on three continents. Culturally, they're very different. Americans and Christianity goes hand in hand. But go to India? Not so much. That's pure culture. I don't know how that can be denied. On to Europe, where honestly, religion is playing an ever smaller role.
I'm interested in what people think. I can debate them, discuss, share opposite views. But when it comes to discussing with a zealot, it's a complete waste of time. IMO YMMV.
JustDave
Well-known Member
I also remain open, and I didn't mind the search either, because if there is a god, it may well have important implications for my life. I gave up the search when I was 52. Really, if you come up with nothing after 50 years, you might as well accept that no tangible evidence is going to show up. This of course, does not mean there is no god. It is simply a lack of evidence.
MarkD argues atheists waste time searching for evidence of existence. To me, without existence, God is irrelevant. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was my number one priority. I never looked for proof of absence, however.
50 years? Try thousands or millions.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
Blind faith - that is belief without evidence - is a non-starter. I could believe in Unicorns, doesn't make it real.
The question revolves around evidence, and what constitutes evidence. When it comes to believers who are 100% in, and simply cannot discuss the topic with non-believers, then you have a special case. Things became angry, defensive, and dismissive. I need something tangible. Not an old book. Not the words in an old book. You don't have to dig very far to get examples of people using those words to gain personal wealth. As such, it alone means little.
I guess it takes a special person to truly have the discussion.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
As noted, won't discuss these issues in this flawed thread.
But if someone ever starts a more focused thread about the possible evidence of an Ultimate Intelligent Entity (UIE) I'll have plenty to post. To be clear, NOT proof but rather evidence.
As a science person that has modestly studied astronomy, ancient civilization anthropology, and the read the Bible from the perspective that it is NOT inerrant and rather the product of oral traditions of ancient science illiterates that have been re-edited at various times by scribes, it is very much obvious the god of Christian religions is not the Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent (OOO) entity posed by anthropomorphic religion dogma. And the Bible itself shows that.
And that is a huge difference because it otherwise allowed endless nonsense magic like ideas to enter religion some of which are being increasingly shown to be so in this science era resulting in significant losses of church memberships, especially younger people.
...time to hit the spook day road
But if someone ever starts a more focused thread about the possible evidence of an Ultimate Intelligent Entity (UIE) I'll have plenty to post. To be clear, NOT proof but rather evidence.
As a science person that has modestly studied astronomy, ancient civilization anthropology, and the read the Bible from the perspective that it is NOT inerrant and rather the product of oral traditions of ancient science illiterates that have been re-edited at various times by scribes, it is very much obvious the god of Christian religions is not the Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent (OOO) entity posed by anthropomorphic religion dogma. And the Bible itself shows that.
And that is a huge difference because it otherwise allowed endless nonsense magic like ideas to enter religion some of which are being increasingly shown to be so in this science era resulting in significant losses of church memberships, especially younger people.
...time to hit the spook day road
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
No, he's not. He told us to shut up and die.You should be thanking him. He's trying to save you from Hell
"Die like the ant then and don't make any further comments." --rbtvgo
I was kidding.
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
Sure, you can but remember that He (God) is speaking as if to His 'little children' for their easy understanding.
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
They do indeed believe this. But, for atheists, that isn't faith, it's fact.
How do you define spirtual understanding?
Thank you for the sentiment. I'm kidding; I know it was completely disingenuous.
Yes, you live and, at some point, you die. All living things do, ants included.
I'm a human, so it would take an extremely large foot to kill me merely by stepping on me. Stomping on my head or chest a number of times would do it, though, if there's a lot of determination behind it.
What is one supposed to "reach out for anything beyond" oneself for? I'm puzzled.
What are all the things atheists have figured out? Do you think atheists have a direct line to all the knowledge in the universe? (I can guarantee you, they don't, nor do they pretend to.)
Like many atheists, I don't believe "it is all random and not connected".
Assuming that, by "it", you mean all things on Earth and the universe, I believe they are connected, and I'm sure I'm not the only atheist who does. Many scientists believe that as well, and many of them are christians. Some are not; some are Muslim, some practice Buddhism, some are Jewish. I'm sure people of many different faiths become scientists. It's a fact they aren't all atheists.
Egads, you wish me death? Despite that, to borrow a phrase that seems appropriate here, May you live long and prosper, and I mean that sincerely.
And, don't be silly...I'll comment whenever I like.
bobcat
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northern Calif
I am fine with that idea, but it would seem better to just leave it at "I am your creator",and leave the gender part out. JMO.
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
Wow, sometimes you can tell that some posts are not worth going back and reading...this one is #1 in that list for me!
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
Yes, but who are we to mince words with Christ, who tells us to pray thus: "Our Father who art in heaven... " --The Bible
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rbtvgo
Member
- Location
- Absecon, new jersey
Love it! You're all thinking. Hit a hot button I guess.
what's the fact you put forth, that what they believe is true?
rbtvgo
Member
- Location
- Absecon, new jersey
No God, no heaven, period. Just die..................simple
rbtvgo
Member
- Location
- Absecon, new jersey
Love it! Hit some sort of hot button.
There are no FACTS to support the non existence of God. There are facts to support a symmetry in life, the balance of nature and the fact that we can sit here and discuss this at all.
God created us in his own image, look it up.
He created us to reflect his power and yet he knew that we would try to be our own Gods. Which we have done.
Now we go our own ways, dispute his existence and think we have it all figured out.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that his power is so great that he created us to excel in all we do and yet remember who created us. To bow down in gratefulness. The result being that we exalt our creator.
Just as a side note, Satan has only one objective....................prove God wrong, just once. Then he is not the great I AM.
There are no FACTS to support the non existence of God. There are facts to support a symmetry in life, the balance of nature and the fact that we can sit here and discuss this at all.
God created us in his own image, look it up.
He created us to reflect his power and yet he knew that we would try to be our own Gods. Which we have done.
Now we go our own ways, dispute his existence and think we have it all figured out.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that his power is so great that he created us to excel in all we do and yet remember who created us. To bow down in gratefulness. The result being that we exalt our creator.
Just as a side note, Satan has only one objective....................prove God wrong, just once. Then he is not the great I AM.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Which post, I got to know!?
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Still sounds like you are preaching to us.?
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
You flatter yourself sir. I wonder if you have the courage to find and read this article by Clarence Darrow?
The Delusion of Design and Purpose
Note: It can be found in Chapter 44 of 'The Story of My Life'
THE STORY OF MY LIFE
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spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
Hubris
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 83
Pride goeth before the fall. --Proverbs
bobcat
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northern Calif
I'm assuming that Christ did not tell you that in person, but instead you read it from copies of unknown authorship from 2000 years ago that was written some 40 to 100 years after his death. Nevertheless, I see no reason why you shouldn't think of a spiritual God that way, if it pleases you to do so.
Whether the word "Father", or "Creator", or "Great Spirit", or whatever is used, I hardly think it will matter in the overall mystery of what's really going on.
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