Religion in the classroom. A question.

chic

chic

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Do you believe the ten commandments should be displayed in every classroom? Please give your opinion on this.

Most who know me here, know I was forced to attend parochial school. I was six. But I don't recall seeing the 10 commandments anywhere in class. Of course every subject we were taught included lectures on religion / Christian God. After eight years I escaped and never gave it much thought again. My classmates felt the same. You would think the Catholic church deluged us in religion to indoctrinate us from an early age but it all had the opposite effect and that was a sad outcome but a revealing one.

It reveals that goodness is something inside a person that they extend to others, not rules or doctrine. The kindest most helpful man I've ever known is a self proclaimed atheist. It no longer surprises me.

How do you feel about the whole thing? Discuss pls.
 

If Biblical teaching is so good at producing 'moral' human beings, why haven't the centuries of it in churches produced more? While i have personally known one or two Christians that actually practice/live by their faith, they are greatly out numbered by priests, pastors and deacons who turn out to be sexual predators, abusers. And then there's the 'spiritual leaders' who are clearly more concerned with their own wealth than the well-being of their followers.
 
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I think a few groups are seizing on an opportunity they probably don't deserve.

But I also believe that schools have become permeated with some really radical secular evil. Most teachers today are so indoctrinated in it that I'm not sure how they'd fare in an honest psychological examination. One done professionally enough to peer beneath the veneer they wear to avoid being stoned by mobs of outraged and disgusted parents and leaders outside our corrupted education industry.

Because of campus hate culture and nihilism and its percolation into early, primary, and secondary education I think those pushing for The Commandments are gaining a great deal of soft sympathy.

People are taking a stand against debasement and debauchery. Sadly we don't really have a secular alternative to The Commandments that I'm aware of. I think I'd rather see the effort go into such a thing instead that doesn't step on so many toes.

But what's been going on simply will not stand. I have a hard time opposing an attempt to restore morality, even if I'd really prefer something more religiously neutral.
 
dilettante said:
But I also believe that schools have become permeated with some really radical secular evil. Most teachers today are so indoctrinated in it that I'm not sure how they'd fare in an honest psychological examination. One done professionally enough to peer beneath the veneer they wear to avoid being stoned by mobs of outraged and disgusted parents and leaders outside our corrupted education industry.
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You know nothing of Most Teachers.
 
raybar said:
Yes, separation of church and state, especially in the United States where it is enshrined in the Constitution.

However, and at the same time, biblical stories are part of the foundational literature of western civilization, and people should be familiar with them.
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Personally i think people should be aware of the folklore, myths and legends of all cultures not just western, as well a general familiarity with major religions. They provide not only evidence on the common values, but insight into how and why cultures differ in their response to others' differences; outsiders or internal norm-breakers.
 
"goodness is something inside a person that they extend to others"

I couldn't have said it better. (for one thing, I just woke up. *I* woke up...I give my brain another hour or so)

The decision to include "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" in the First Amendment is as important today as it was when it was written.

Jefferson mainly intended to prohibit the new US gov't from forcing one religion or another on people, like the kings of England did for centuries...under the real fear of death, no less...but it also serves to ensure that Americans know they are self-governing, free to make their own choices and travel their own path (within the limits of the law).
 
I survived ten years of public school. Day one - you are XYZ's daughter? And a pull by the ear across the chalk board. In 7th grade I encountered him again. If you try to reach under my skirt I will do the same! He was sent to Catholic retirement but not of my doing.
I learned how to read the new testament by a friend's wife.
 
feywon said:
If Biblical teaching is so good at producing 'moral' human beings, why haven't the centuries of it in churches produced more? While i have personally known one or two Christians that actually practice/live by their faith, they are greatly out numbered by priests, pastors and deacons who turn out to be sexual predators, abusers. And then there's the 'spiritual leaders' who are clearly more concerned with their own wealth than the well-being of their followers.
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Completely agree with you.
 
raybar said:
Yes, separation of church and state, especially in the United States where it is enshrined in the Constitution.

However, and at the same time, biblical stories are part of the foundational literature of western civilization, and people should be familiar with them.
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There is no mention in the U.S. Constitution of "separation of church and state". The First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...". The "separation" phrase came from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to a Baptist organization, where he discussed a “wall of separation between church and state.”

The founders wanted to prohibit a particular religion being legally established as the religion of the United States, such as what was formed in England, The Church of England. There was to be no "Church of the United States".

It seems reasonable to me that a particular religion not be taught to all students in a public primary school. However religious or spiritual practice should be allowed for those who want to participate. I myself am not religious. But morality and time honored right and wrong ought to be at the foundation in any education.

If people object to the 10 Commandments being posted, then they could simply strike the first 3, and list the other 7, which have no reference to a higher power.
 
chic said:
Do you believe the ten commandments should be displayed in every classroom? Please give your opinion on this.

Most who know me here, know I was forced to attend parochial school. I was six. But I don't recall seeing the 10 commandments anywhere in class. Of course every subject we were taught included lectures on religion / Christian God. After eight years I escaped and never gave it much thought again. My classmates felt the same. You would think the Catholic church deluged us in religion to indoctrinate us from an early age but it all had the opposite effect and that was a sad outcome but a revealing one.

It reveals that goodness is something inside a person that they extend to others, not rules or doctrine. The kindest most helpful man I've ever known is a self proclaimed atheist. It no longer surprises me.

How do you feel about the whole thing? Discuss pls.
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Like you Chic, I attended Catholic grade school for eight long years. Was in church for one reason or another almost every day of the year. Once I graduated and went to public high school, it was a big relief. I knew all I needed to about organized religion, and I walked away from it and never looked back.

Religion should be kept out of public schools and government. There are religious schools for those who want that. There are some truly good Christians who are kind, tolerant and caring people. But over the years I have seen that that is the exception, not the standard. My parents, along with many others, taught me to be kind to other people and animals, and treat others as I would like to be treated. Thankfully they weren't religious zealots, and just sent me to that school because it was the only one close to my home.

I have known many people in my lifetime who were not part of any religious organization, and had big hearts and were kind to all around them, would help without hesitation if possible.

Religion has no place in public schools or government. So many wars and death in history have been caused by religion. That is not what Jesus would have wanted.
 
Murrmurr said:
"goodness is something inside a person that they extend to others"

I couldn't have said it better. (for one thing, I just woke up. *I* woke up...I give my brain another hour or so)

The decision to include "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" in the First Amendment is as important today as it was when it was written.

Jefferson mainly intended to prohibit the new US gov't from forcing one religion or another on people, like the kings of England did for centuries...under the real fear of death, no less...but it also serves to ensure that Americans know they are self-governing, free to make their own choices and travel their own path (within the limits of the law).
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We have a similar clause in the Australian Constitution, Section 116.

Section 116 of the Constitution of Australia precludes the Commonwealth of Australia (i.e., the federal parliament) from making laws for establishing any religion, imposing any religious observance, or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. Section 116 also provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth. The product of a compromise in the pre-Federation constitutional conventions, Section 116 is based on similar provisions in the United States Constitution. However, Section 116 is more narrowly drafted than its US counterpart, and does not preclude the states of Australia from making such laws..
...
Federal Governments have twice proposed the amendment of Section 116, principally to apply its provisions to laws made by the states. On each occasion—in 1944 and 1988—the proposal failed in a referendum.

Section 116 of the Constitution of Australia - Wikipedia
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