More kids die from gunshot than anything else.

CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
"Statistical gerrymandering" is what my professor in Stats and Analysis called it when I took graduate level stats courses. Means stats can be manipulated and presented to support a political point of view almost always.
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Well, naturally. That is what I taught my Year 8 maths classes when introducing them to basic statistics. In particular, that graphs can be designed to misrepresent raw data.

Are you suggesting that data on causes of death is deliberately being skewed for political reasons, or do you just not like what the data is revealing?

Why is the data relevant to deaths by gunshot political but deaths by cancer or traffic accident not political?
 

Warrigal said:
Edit. That wasn't too hard. A simple search "gang related deaths children USA" pulled up this study from John Hopkins, based on national statistics for 2022

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/sites/...22-cgvs-gun-violence-in-the-united-states.pdf

On page 6 you will find this information


Let's not hide behind the "this is political" argument. There is nothing political about children and teens dying from lead poisoning. The days of the wild west are long gone.
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The wild west was not all that notorious or deadly. it's the Cappola of the entertainment industry that make you think that.
 

dilettante said:
I'm waiting to hear solutions aside from "total confiscation" which just isn't going to happen in a free country.

Aside from that all I see above is a lot of hand-wringing and wailing and thinly-veiled attempts to shame and blame freedom for the problem. I guess they didn't get the memo that a "high social credit score" means nothing outside places similar to Red China and North Korea.
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First of all, I'm not about to offer you any solutions. You have to do your own searching but I assure you that between "total confiscation" and open slather there are quite a few options.

Freedom is not being blamed here.

The thread is about the reality of young lives being snuffed out by firearms, whether in the form of accident, suicide or intentional murder. The death rate of children and teens by firearm exceeds all other causes taken individually.

Could that be that measures to lower the traffic accident toll, or to treat childhood leukaemia, are having an effect. Accidental child poisonings are less now because of child proof caps for bottles. Even pill testing at music festivals, coupled with counselling is helping to save teenage lives from drug overdose and pill contamination.

Think about child and teenage deaths by firearm the same way and look for any measures that could actually lower the death rate.
 
In "cave man days" lots of kids probably died from not being watched well enough, or being just plain dumb, or they had parents who didn't know how to care for them, or they would wander off and get eaten by a bear as a snack, or fall over a cliff, into a lake, etc. Or the kid just would NOT listen to the parent's warning.

When I was a kid, if I did something stupid my parent warned me NOT to do, there would be either NATURAL consequences and they would say after I broke my arm falling out of the 100th tree: "That'll learn you durn you!". And the other natural consequence to NOT listening to my parent was a spanking I would remember.

These days one way some parents don't know how to take care of kids is to teach them to respect people and firearms and the other is to let the kid think authority of an adult means NOTHING. For example: teachers. A teacher, due to their position has authority in a position of trust. A parent should back up another adult such as a teacher, or other adult, but now days? Parents attack teacher's authority and undermine the respect to be shown a person who IS a teacher. Just like a parent should be respected by a child SIMPLY because it is an adult in a parenting role of trust.

I have seen parents attack OTHER parent's because a parent came to them and said: "Your kid was out of line and was hurting this other kid, so I called him on it". The parent took their kid's side before believing the other adult.

Survival of the fittest means dumb, careless, or weaker creatures are not meant to survive as it does not perpetuate a species, it weakens it. You end up with too many dumb in proportion to smart. The ratio of wolves, sheep, and watchdogs becomes unbalanced. I think that is what is now happening in the world and guns are going to become even more important for protection.

It isn't the responsibility of government to babysit us, we need to be ready as citizens to protect ourselves when shit hits the fan.

I would have a very hard time living in a country where the only thing I have to protect me is a baseball bat against someone wanting to take over our government or take my freedoms without due process.

I also don't want some man with bigger muscles than mine hurting me or my children when my spouse is not home and I want to be able to defend my home against animals and stupid people.

Stupid person: someone who thinks they can come in my home without permission, come into my neighbor's home without permission, or take my or her car at a stop light.
 
"Think about child and teenage deaths by firearm the same way and look for any measures that could actually lower the death rate."

1) Take away street drugs.
2) Enforce the immigration laws already in place.
3) Teach firearms safety to all children and parents.
4) Hold parents accountable for their children.
5) Add to undercover gang surveillance teams.
 
"The death rate of children and teens by firearm exceeds all other causes taken individually".

This is incorrect because for children UNDER the age of 15 it is not the #1 cause of death; it is ONLY as a group of children from birth to 18. It is like saying "the cause of death for people from 25 to 75 is highest from old age"...well, it may be true, but if you just take people 25-60 that is not true, it is another reason that is the #1cause of death for those of that age group.

One cannot group 1-12 year olds with 13-18 year olds when it comes to gun deaths, because gun death is NOT the #1 cause of death for the 1-12 year olds!

Anti-gun people skew stats as well as language to make all gun ownership look bad and like taking away guns will solve a problem. The problem is people and their actions/behaviors.

Fix the people's behaviors and your deaths by gun problem is solved.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
I would have a very hard time living in a country where the only thing I have to protect me is a baseball bat against someone wanting to take over our government or take my freedoms without due process.
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Ah well, those of us who live in countries where nobody has a gun for self protection manage quite well.

( people have guns for farming purposes or target shooting- and stored safely when not in use - but not just in the house for protection)

But then of course we don't have other people with guns that we need guns to protect ourselves from.
 
January said:
Ah well, those of us who live in countries where nobody has a gun for self protection manage quite well.

( people have guns for farming purposes or target shooting- and stored safely when not in use - but not just in the house for protection)

But then of course we don't have other people with guns that we need guns to protect ourselves from.
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Good point, January. I've never had any reason to protect myself against someone armed with a gun. Never have I even seen anyone carrying a gun who wasn't an officer of the law or licensed security at airports. That's not to say that in Sydney gangs are not a problem, but it is up to the police to deal with that particular problem.
 
dilettante said:
While we're on this (clearly politically motivated) subject, this just came up in my feed:

Sen. Josh Hawley Makes Anti-2A Judge Look Stupid Exposing Her Record Of Failure

Full disclosure: I have never owned a firearm (or even a stun gun).
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OK, I'll bite ....... what's 2-A ?
 
Rakaia said:
I'm open to this being sociologically motivated.
I'm a firearms owner, they're kept in New Zealand and I haven't fired a shot since the late 80's.
Clearly firearms are an issue Stateside.
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Here was me thinking you are from WA. Anyway, it's murder mayhem that's the issue Stateside.
 
January said:
I certainly dont think so.

Nor does whether they are gang related or not - they are still deaths by gunshot.

Something that happens extremely rarely in countries of other posters.
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The other countries cannot be compared to the US regarding gun ownership and use, period.
Find another country the size, and the multinational demographics of the United States, that comes even close, that also has FIFTY independent state governments.

The US is the THIRD largest country by population and the fourth largest by area. Of the four, only two are non-communist countries or communist dictator led countries. The diversity of cultures is unmatched as is the geography/boundaries; political-constitutional makeup.
 
Inept said:
Here was me thinking you are from WA. Anyway, it's murder mayhem that's the issue Stateside.
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Yes I live in WA, Western Australia not Washington state. I'm an expatriate Kiwi so I still own a few firearms back in NZ. WA has incredibly strict gun laws and I have never got a licence or brought them over. I was on a farm in NZ and hunting was part of our lifestyle.
It's the sociological side of the gun culture in the USA that interests me.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
The other countries cannot be compared to the US regarding gun ownership and use, period.
Find another country the size, and the multinational demographics of the United States, that comes even close, that also has FIFTY independent state governments.

The US is the THIRD largest country by population and the fourth largest by area. Of the four, only two are non-communist countries or communist dictator led countries. The diversity of cultures is unmatched as is the geography/boundaries; political-constitutional makeup.
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Nope, the four largest countries are Russia, Canada, China, and the U.S.

Of those four, only China is "communist."

I put communist in quotes because it's actually state capitalism — not communism. A state-capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts as a single huge corporation, extracting surplus value from the workforce in order to invest it in further production.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
The other countries cannot be compared to the US regarding gun ownership and use, period.
Find another country the size, and the multinational demographics of the United States, that comes even close, that also has FIFTY independent state governments.

The US is the THIRD largest country by population and the fourth largest by area. Of the four, only two are non-communist countries or communist dictator led countries. The diversity of cultures is unmatched as is the geography/boundaries; political-constitutional makeup.
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I guess you overlooked your "next door neighburs" here in Canada? While our population is "just 40 million people " compared to that of the USA, we do have very strict fire arms laws, and in particular the ownership and use of hand guns. No body in Canada can carry a hand gun in public, except on duty Police officers, on duty members of the Canadian Forces Military Police, and on duty armed security guards on an armored cash in transit truck.

If a person applies for a hand gun permit in Canada, the approval process takes up to a year to be completed. If the person has previous convictions for violent crimes, especially for domestic assault, the application will be automatically denied. Part of the background check involves in person interviews with the applicant's family, and if any adult relative objects to the issuance of a hand gun permit, it will be denied.

Legally owned hand guns in Canada, MUST be locked in a gun safe, unloaded, with a trigger lock on it, at all times, with the ammunition in a second locked safe. The ONLY place where a legal hand gun can be shot in Canada is at a registered gun range. The hand gun MUST be transported directly TO the range in a lock box, and directly BACK home again, afterwards.

In the year 2022, there were a total of 874 murders in Canada, of which 342 were by firearms. By comparison, in Chicago in the same year, there were 2,656 shootings, with 605 murders using firearms. Toronto and Chicago have just about equal populations, but the number of murders by firearms are very unequal. In Toronto in 2022, there were 78, while in Chicago there were 605 murders using guns. In the majority of the gun murders in Canada, the fire arm was smuggled into Canada from the USA.

So the country that is right next door to the USA geographically, has way fewer deaths by guns than the USA does, even when you take into account the population difference between the 2 countries. In my opinion, this speaks to the history of the 2 countries in terms of how they emerged and developed over three centuries. JIM.
 
HermitHogan said:
How do you propose "fixing people's behaviors?"
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Since 85 to 90% of shootings IN America are black on black, regardless of age of the victim and shooter, and I am no expert on black societal norms, and I am not black, I would start with asking a black person.

I asked some I know.

They said it is because "Their role models suck".

So I say take away the guns from all blacks until the role models don't "suck".
Clearly, that won't work because then we'd be called racists - as always :rolleyes: ;).

HINT: If you are white OR brown OR purple, if visit America (or Mexico for that matter): stay out of places where you see brown skinned young males, they will not shoot a white person, but you may get caught in the crossfire or you may get carjacked at a stoplight. They usually won't shoot a person while carjacking them (they just want your wheels), but a gun will stop them for sure.
 
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