Gunmen open fire at Bondi Beach in Sydney.

I'm cutting Frydenberg some slack here. For him this is a personal issue, and he let go at Sarah Ferguson on the ABC with a lot of passion. His anger was for his children who go nowhere without being in the presence of armed guards.

I am reluctant to take anything SKY News commentators say but in this case I stayed listening and began to see what Frydenberg wanted to make clear about his reality.

ABC interview Jos Frydenberg - Search Videos
 
 
spookycat2 said:
This may not be a popular opinion, but I believe where more citizens are armed and trained, it wouldn't take many episodes like that to put an end to gun violence.
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The problem with that theory was that if it was true there would be no gun violence in the US but there is currently a thread about a shooting at Brown University and reports of mass shootings from the USA are far too common.

total-gun-deaths-aus-1-1024x515.png

The vertical line indicates when serious gun control took place after the Port Arthur killings. The problem is that virtually nothing has been done since and gun manufacturers have found ways round the legislation but new legislation including a limit on the number of guns a person can hold will hopefully revise that.

BTW I gave up my gun licence in 1996
 
spookycat2 said:
This may not be a popular opinion, but I believe where more citizens are armed and trained, it wouldn't take many episodes like that to put an end to gun violence.
Click to expand...
Your opinion is valid, it's equally as valid as a diametrically opposed opinion.
That's the thing with opinions, they're personal and no one can tell that they're wrong because they are your personal beliefs.
 
spookycat2 said:
This may not be a popular opinion, but I believe where more citizens are armed and trained, it wouldn't take many episodes like that to put an end to gun violence.
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Warrigal said:
More guns just lead to more deaths. The corollary is less guns deliver less mass deaths by bullets
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January said:
Like works so well in USA???

Oh wait...

That may be your opinion but facts show otherwise.
Click to expand...

Spookycat2, it's not popular with the people who don't want to recognize it. They would rather give up their freedoms for a false sense of safety & security thinking it's not going to happen because the law forbids an inanimate object. They forget there are wolves walking amongst the sheep & rely on what they consider a sheepdog to protect them.

They want to deflect from the incidences where a civilian sheepdog has defended the sheep. The same with the people who provide "stats & data" on incidents. It's an inconvenient truth that doesn't support their idea &/or agenda.

The news' motto pretty much is "If it bleeds, it leads." It's all about ratings, sensationalism & being the first to "report" news whether the facts are known or even accurate or not when it breaks. It's easy to report on violence & bad things because it draws people to the TV news like moths to a flame. People become fixated on such events & to the rhetoric on the TV to the point that it's true & is the norm for a country where everyone lives like that.

If you want to believe all of what you see on your news there, go ahead, it's your right to form your opinion from it.

However what is extremely rare on the news to see, unless the news is in a position of having to, is to air a report that an armed citizen stopped a bad actor. The last one I remember seeing it on CBS news was an Indiana Mall Shooting that was stopped by a young man in 2022. Police: Armed bystander shot and killed Greenwood Park Mall shooter in just 15 seconds

Even the FBI downplays those statistics. Here's a comparison of the FBI stats to Crime Prevention Center that took a deeper look:

FBI Data Downplays How Often Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters, Report Shows

https://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/FILE_4924.pdf

Makes you wonder if everyone is shooting one another as you think, how is there anyone in the US left?
 
Lilac it seems the opposite to me - it is a fact there are far less (proportionate to population before someone says just the population is bigger) mass shootings in countries with tighter gun laws and different gun culture to US
that isnt my opinion, it is fact.

the "It's an inconvenient truth that doesn't support their idea &/or agenda" seems coming from the pro gun lobby who somehow think more guns means less gun deaths - despite all evidence showing otherwise.
 
I have always loved the Seekers' song, "You are, We are, Australian". It has been sung many times over the decades, particularly in Australian schools.

This FB reel, filmed on the last evening of Hanukah, shows just how much power it has to bind all kinds of Australians from disparate ancestries together as one people.

276K views · 11K reactions | The service ended with the lighting of the menorah, marking the final night of Hanukkah. #9Today | TODAY

Full lyrics here - you are we are australian lyrics - Bing - with some commentary by Bruce Woodley
 
A brief explanation of the Australian Constitution -

Australia is a constitutional monarchy. Charles III is our official Head of State although his connection to Australia is mostly ceremonial.

Charles does not sign Australian legislation. National laws are signed by the (appointed) Governor General who resides in Canberra. State legislation is signed off on behalf of the King by the governors appointed in each state.

Our current Governor General is a woman, Sam Mostyn, and you can find video* and the text of her words relating to the Bondi shootings.

https://www.gg.gov.au/about-governo...nerals-video-message-about-bondi-beach-attack

* It looks like the video has been deleted.
 
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Warrigal said:
I'm cutting Frydenberg some slack here. For him this is a personal issue, and he let go at Sarah Ferguson on the ABC with a lot of passion. His anger was for his children who go nowhere without being in the presence of armed guards.

I am reluctant to take anything SKY News commentators say but in this case I stayed listening and began to see what Frydenberg wanted to make clear about his reality.

ABC interview Jos Frydenberg - Search Videos
Click to expand...
Yes I too will cut him a little slack on that count but not for his actions as member of the government, I consider him to be one of the crooks from that Govco.
Warrigal said:
I have always loved the Seekers' song, "You are, We are, Australian". It has been sung many times over the decades, particularly in Australian schools.

This FB reel, filmed on the last evening of Hanukah, shows just how much power it has to bind all kinds of Australians from disparate ancestries together as one people.

276K views · 11K reactions | The service ended with the lighting of the menorah, marking the final night of Hanukkah. #9Today | TODAY

Full lyrics here - you are we are australian lyrics - Bing - with some commentary by Bruce Woodley
Click to expand...
It's interesting what you said about the media who love to sensationalise issues, while many Aussies just want to get on with their lives. It's said that prejudice & discrimination doubt survive exposure to other cultures and I think that's the key Australia's progress in becoming a homogenised Australian nation, despite pockets of bigotry and isolationism. Australia has, like NZ, supported the belief that everyone deserves a fair go, it's pretty much one of the cornerstones in our society.
In my first decade here I worked at the local casino and got to meet and work with an amazing range of people, likewise with punters there too. The point is that good people come from across the range and their shape, gender, ethnicity gender, political or cultural beliefs are incidental, similarly the human flotsam and jetsam are equally diverse.
My belief is that Ahmed simply thought that he was doing the right thing by people because he saw people dying and in danger. He certainly didn't have time to think about much else. Similarly in 2015 an unarmed Spencer Stone acted quickly and was instrumental in saving numerous lives in the Thalys train attack in France. Ahmed and Spencer both chose the Fight reaction when many other may well have chosen from the other 3 F's.
 
@January, the term "inconvenient truth" isn't from a pro-gun lobby. It's a slang term that's used for things that may be difficult to deal with, be objectionable or just inconvenient. It started from the 2006 documentary film by the same name.

Tighter gun laws only restricts the law-abiding people in your country from having a firearm who aren't going to misuse it. Those laws won't stop terrorists from trying to kill as many people they can in the name of their cause. They also won't stop someone who is insane that's decided to kill people for a reason that they have rationalized in their head that we may not ever understand. Neither will it stop a cold blooded predator.

The first people, Boris & Sofia Gurman, seen the older terrorist before the attack began at his car & confronted him wrestling the rifle away, but were both shot when the terrorist used another weapon. If that couple would have been legally armed for self-defense, that outcome would have been very different. Innocent lives would have been saved.
 
American gun culture is not a thing in Australia. We see things differently.
We don't celebrate gun ownership.

the martins and the coys 1954 - Search Videos

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050468/

We began our modern history as a convict colony, but we have learned that guns are not the way to achieve law and order. When everyone has a firearm at hand's reach, then every stranger we meet can be seen as a possible threat to our lives.

I could not live that way.
 
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Lilac said:
@January, the term "inconvenient truth" isn't from a pro-gun lobby. It's a slang term that's used for things that may be difficult to deal with, be objectionable or just inconvenient. It started from the 2006 documentary film by the same name.

Tighter gun laws only restricts the law-abiding people in your country from having a firearm who aren't going to misuse it. Those laws won't stop terrorists from trying to kill as many people they can in the name of their cause. They also won't stop someone who is insane that's decided to kill people for a reason that they have rationalized in their head that we may not ever understand. Neither will it stop a cold blooded predator.

The first people, Boris & Sofia Gurman, seen the older terrorist before the attack began at his car & confronted him wrestling the rifle away, but were both shot when the terrorist used another weapon. If that couple would have been legally armed for self-defense, that outcome would have been very different. Innocent lives would have been saved.
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Regardless of where the term originated - my point still stands.

as we have seen in US - no, more people with more guns to protect against more other people with more guns does not create greater gun safety and less gun deaths. Quite the reverse.

no law stops everything - but clearly the laws in Australia are working much better at having less gun deaths.
 
January said:
Regardless of where the term originated - my point still stands.

as we have seen in US - no, more people with more guns to protect against more other people with more guns does not create greater gun safety and less gun deaths. Quite the reverse.

no law stops everything - but clearly the laws in Australia are working much better at having less gun deaths.
Click to expand...

Once again, we agree to disagree. You have your ideas which are set on how you view the world around you.
 
Lilac said:
The first people, Boris & Sofia Gurman, seen the older terrorist before the attack began at his car & confronted him wrestling the rifle away, but were both shot when the terrorist used another weapon. If that couple would have been legally armed for self-defense, that outcome would have been very different. Innocent lives would have been saved.
Click to expand...
What makes you so sure about that?

We already know which of the 4 F's that couple chose, but they could have been shot while reaching for their weapons with the same final outcome. Of course they could have successfully shot the terrorists and/or some innocent bystanders, we'll never know.
 
Lilac said:
Once again, we agree to disagree. You have your ideas which are set on how you view the world around you.
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Here's a cut'n'paste from the interweb.

Here’s a fun, horrifying fact that Americans really don’t like hearing. (And why America is the last place for gun ownership advice.)
In 2015, more Americans were killed in shootings involving toddlers than were killed by terrorists on US soil. Toddlers. People who can’t spell their own name but somehow have access to a loaded firearm.
That’s not an opinion. That’s been fact-checked.
Snopes broke it down here:
https://www.snopes.com/.../toddlers-killed-americans.../
More detail and sourcing here:
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/.../did-toddlers-with...
And if you zoom out even further, guns kill massively more Americans every single year than terrorism ever has, which Wired laid out pretty clearly:
https://www.wired.com/.../infographic-guns-kill-more.../
Now let’s talk Australia.
We had one horrific moment. Port Arthur. And instead of arguing about “freedom” and inventing a personality disorder called “gun culture”, we said, yeah nah, maybe civilians don’t need easy access to killing machines. We changed the law. Quickly. Bipartisan. No culture war circus.
And guess what happened.
Mass shootings basically stopped.
So when Americans lecture us about gun reform, it’s like being given diet advice by someone eating a triple cheeseburger while shouting “THIS IS FINE” as the restaurant burns down around them.
We don’t hate Americans. We just don’t take gun advice from a country where toddlers are statistically more dangerous than terrorists.
And honestly, that shouldn’t even be controversial.
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Lilac said:
Tighter gun laws only restricts the law-abiding people in your country from having a firearm who aren't going to misuse it. Those laws won't stop terrorists from trying to kill as many people they can in the name of their cause.
Click to expand...


The terrorists were using legally owned guns. Pump action and rapid fire guns were outlawed in 1996 but the guns they had used had been sneaked under the legislation

Watch the video in post #103 to find out how.

The 1996 gun legislation had not been altered for 30 years, now it is to be updated to ban they type of weapons used at Bondi and restrict the number of weapons an individual can own to 4 (Already the law in WA). Farmers will be allowed up to 10 guns as will professional shooters.

It is not as if there is a shortage of weapons in the country but there is no reason why anybody needs a rapid fire rifle in a city. We have an armed police force but there is going to be some thought put to police carrying more firepower in their cars as I understand it, they were definitely out gunned initially at Bondi.

There are over 1 million registered firearms in NSW alone in a population of just over 8 million. Something like 75% of the population support strict gun control.
 
Lilac said:
Once again, we agree to disagree. You have your ideas which are set on how you view the world around you.
Click to expand...

As does everyone, including of course yourself. We can all have our own opinions.

What we can't have are our own facts

That Australia has tight gun laws and far less gun deaths than USA is not opinion, it is fact..

Clearly what you are doing there is not working.
 
Warrigal said:
American gun culture is not a thing in Australia. We see things differently.
We don't celebrate gun ownership.

the martins and the coys 1954 - Search Videos

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050468/

We began our modern history as a convict colony, but we have learned that guns are not the way to achieve law and order. When everyone has a firearm at hand's reach, then every stranger we meet can be seen as a possible threat to our lives.

I could not live that way.
Click to expand...
@Warrigal, we do see things differently & on that we both agree.

I'll stand by the Constitution & support the rights that are protected in it. That's no different than you & others in your country who support your laws & ideas.

I don't view movies or songs & think that's how everyone else lives either here or elsewhere. Those have been made from either the view point of an individual or created for an entertainment value whether you like or agree with that topic or not. I don't consider them good examples of real people. If anyone wants to believe it, that's up to them.

I don't go around with the mindset that everyone has a firearm & all strangers could be a threat to me ... I haven't lived that way & I see no need to.

No one here will be agreeing or changing their minds about the right to self-defense or whether or not anyone can own weapons. We are just going around in circles getting no where.
 
Warrigal said:
American gun culture is not a thing in Australia. We see things differently.
We don't celebrate gun ownership.

the martins and the coys 1954 - Search Videos

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050468/

We began our modern history as a convict colony, but we have learned that guns are not the way to achieve law and order. When everyone has a firearm at hand's reach, then every stranger we meet can be seen as a possible threat to our lives.

I could not live that way.
Click to expand...
Do the police have guns? The Army? Do the politicions have armed security? The rich and powerfull?
 
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