Charles Manson.

I think, when a person is proven guilty of heinous crimes (mass murder with malice)...they should be chained up in a room with their victim's family and those people should be allowed to do anything they like. If that lowers us to their level...so be it.
 

I like the idea of Water Boarding as punishment for these crazy killers.

To be done several times a day/ week/ month etc. Middle of the night, or noon, or first thing in the morning.

Keep 'em guessing. Serve em right.
 
Denise1952 said:
I still think there is a lot to be said for "let the punishment" fit the crime. If more people failed to get away with crime, fewer crimes (I think) would happen. Many believe they won't get caught, but more I think, don't worry if they do. Because they are miserable, or sick to begin with, and the worse they see is prison. I may be wrong, but our prisons today, are a lot more cushy than in "days gone by".
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The prisoners I've talked to about it have unanimously said life without parole is worse than being executed. They said it's the prospect of all those long years stretching ahead locked up in a gray prison cell with nothing ever changing.
 

What about Leslie Van Houton who stabbed the La Bianca's to death at her age of 19?
In Sept. of this this year,

" The youngest member of Charles Manson's murderous family went before a parole panel for the 21st time ... and took a big step toward being released.

Leslie Van Houten -- now 68 years old -- was granted parole suitability at a hearing at the California Institution for Women in Corona, CA Wednesday. That doesn't mean she's out, but it's a big step toward that.
There's a 5-month process in which all of her records will be reviewed and the file will then go to Governor Jerry Brown, who can either uphold the parole recommendation, reverse it or modify it.


She shouldn't get her hopes up ... last year the Board made the same recommendation and Brown nixed it.


As we reported ... Van Houten was equipped with a 13-page report saying she was immature and brainwashed by Manson as a 19-year-old when she stabbed and murdered Leno and Rosemary LaBianca."

https://www.tmz.com/2017/09/06/leslie-van-houten-parole-bid-manson-family-killer/

Should we continue to pay her keep or let her out, finally to earn her own living?

iu
 
Scott Peterson is another "innocent"POS California is hosting,Jeffrey McDonald was baf but this scum bucket chose Christmas for his deeds,thereby ruining it for her family forever.
Not to be outdone,here in New York we're hosting David Berkowitz,AKA,Son of Sam,of course he's found Jesus and is now a minister...
 
I've worked in jails, worked in a prison...wouldn't call either "cushy" by any means. Having your freedom taken from you, that is the worst. The food sucks, despite the fact that a certified Registered Dietitian Nutritionist has meticulously designed the menu.

If a society just wants to throw away everyone who is sent to prison(maybe your son or daughter, or maybe you) then why don't we just shoot them all, the moment that the judge imposes the sentence. That would be cheaper, and I'm sure would please certain folks here.

Unless, it was your son or daughter, or maybe you. No more Martha Stewart!

I'm not against the death penalty, but I'm not for it either. Some people just need to be executed for the collective "good" of society. ..people like the mass murderer Timothy McVeigh.

There are 747 death row inmates in California. I bet that the overwhelming majority of them are guilty of the crime that they are convicted of, and should be put to death.

One time after returning a verdict in a criminal trial, the judge invited us(the jury) to join in a discussion in the judge's chambers, with the prosecutor and the defense attorney. The defense attorney mentioned that around 3 % of criminal defendants sent to prison are innocent, and had been wrongly prosecuted. That was 1987. In recent times it is estimated that out of 100 people sentenced to death, 4 are innocent. And, out of that 100 only 2 typically get exonerated. So, about 2% of executed people are innocent.

The death penalty is popular with the masses, but the death penalty cost more to society than does "life without".


Manson "should have" been executed, but he wasn't. It didn't matter, either way. The family of the victims never get closure by an execution. The pain does not automatically stop.
 
Giantsfan1954 said:
Scott Peterson is another "innocent"POS California is hosting,Jeffrey McDonald was baf but this scum bucket chose Christmas for his deeds,thereby ruining it for her family forever.
Not to be outdone,here in New York we're hosting David Berkowitz,AKA,Son of Sam,of course he's found Jesus and is now a minister...
Click to expand...

A minister????

I thought he was really mentally ill.....
 
Dont recall the channel,A&E maybe,had a documentary on him,I think it was 40 years since his killings,yup,he's some kind of minister....good friend,retired correction just rolls his eyes,says they do that,it gets them out of their cells.
 
Smiling Jane said:
Your information is not correct. It costs far more to execute than it does to imprison.http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/
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That's because our present judicial system is so heavily biased in favor of the criminal. Plus, lawyers can get rich defending these slugs with endless appeals. When there is NO doubt about the guilt, there is NO sensible reason to drag these appeals on for years...or decades. There isn't much that I agree with in the Islamic world....but their treatment of a murderer makes a lot more sense than what we do....they hold the trial on Monday, and the execution on Tuesday.
 
The judicial system is required to adhere to constitutional law, and that's where the appeals process comes from. I've known quite a few lawyers who do death penalty appeals work. Never met one who got rich doing it.

tntthomas, where it all goes off the rails is at trial level. There's no such thing as fair trials for the poor in this country. Those who can buy the best lawyers prevail at trial. It's especially heinous in small towns where judges tend to appoint some local drunk lawyer who happens to be hanging around the courthouse looking for business. He can't keep it together for a successful law practice and he has little or no money for staff or trial research. I had a job where I had to read trial transcripts. I highly recommend trial transcripts to anyone who believes the U.S. legal system is in any way functional.

Remember OJ Simpson? There was a reason they destroyed Mark Furhman's credibility as a witness; he knew where at least some of the bodies were buried in that case which was set up to exonerate Simpson. Too bad Fuhrman was such a POS because he might have built a real case against Simpson.

Rich people go free or with a shortened sentence. Poor people get the death penalty. It's rarely untrue. Years ago I read some research that said the death penalty is weighted according to who you kill. A poor black guy who kills a rich white guy is on his way to death row. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Kill a poor woman or your own wife and kids? No biggie. Maybe 10 years and you're out.

Another murderer who became a minister in prison is Tex Watson, the leader of Manson's team of killers.
 
Don M. said:
When there is irrefutable evidence to such a person's guilt, and the culprit even admits to it, I see NO reason why society should be obligated to "warehouse" these types at a huge cost every year. It would seem far better to spend that money on honest people who need some help.
Click to expand...

I agree, Don. Seems like a waste of taxpayer money to me.
 
Denise1952 said:
I still think there is a lot to be said for "let the punishment" fit the crime. If more people failed to get away with crime, fewer crimes (I think) would happen. Many believe they won't get caught, but more I think, don't worry if they do. Because they are miserable, or sick to begin with, and the worse they see is prison. I may be wrong, but our prisons today, are a lot more cushy than in "days gone by".
Click to expand...

Well I would not remotely describe our New Mexico prisons as cushy by any stretch -- they are spare, stark, grim and generally abysmal -- and they we've got our prison gangs to make them even more inviting.

If I were looking at the rest of my life inside one of our prisons, especially in solitary, I would FAR, FAR rather die quickly and get it over with.
 
I've seen the meals they serve in those "cushy" prisons. A slice of cheap bologna that's so thin you could read through it (if you can read, which isn't a given) on white bread that's so stale the edges curl up. About 1/4 teaspoon mustard in the center. Canned beans, usually served lukewarm. Maybe a piece of carrot or celery that's been out for hours until it's limp. Coffee the color of dishwater.

Yeah, luxe accommodations.
 
Smiling Jane said:
I've seen the meals they serve in those "cushy" prisons. A slice of cheap bologna that's so thin you could read through it (if you can read, which isn't a given) on white bread that's so stale the edges curl up. About 1/4 teaspoon mustard in the center. Canned beans, usually served lukewarm. Maybe a piece of carrot or celery that's been out for hours until it's limp. Coffee the color of dishwater.

Yeah, luxe accommodations.
Click to expand...


The human being is an amazingly adaptable animal. That is the reason we are the prime organism on Earth. Once a person accepts within him that prison is his world, he becomes as one.
He still has a society, friends, routines, and customs.
The only inmates that are miserable with their situation are the ones with short sentences,where they can see daylight and an end.
The lifers know that they are not going any where so they act just as you do and build a place for themselves within the confines of their society.
Some become businessmen and control the clandestine prison market, some become counselors or jailhouse lawyers, some enforcers or soldiers.
Prison is a society within itself, one that doesn't necessarily jive with what we would consider normal,but a society and hierarchy nonetheless.

To be sure any inmate including the lifers will speak wistfully of the outside, but in reality, after a decade or so, "freedom, the street" is nothing more than an abstract concept. It has been shown time and time again and that many long term inmates are unable or unwilling to navigate open society.

As much as the more civilized and genteel among us may protest, vengeance is part and parcel of justice, and with some criminals vengeance is the only consideration they deserve.

Manson was a prime example of this and the State of California failed in its duty to the greater society.
 
I don't know anything about prisons other than rumors, or maybe an article here and there. But I do know a woman who's son is in prison. One thing I do know is that he uses the phone every day, and on a regular basis He can use some program like Skype. He also, both he and a buddy in prison, are able to sign up on dating sites. The son now has a girlfriend that visits him regularly. I don't know if that's only certain prisoners that have these freedoms, but this boy is not eligible for parole, and his sentence won't allow him out for another 25 years. I think the total included the 25 plus he's been in there I think at the least, 10 years.

One thing that has always worried me is how many innocent people are put in prison. I don't know if Shawshank Redemption was from a true story, or truth-based.

I'll stick with my belief in the punishment fitting the crime. But that would happen only in a perfect world.
 
Smiling Jane said:
The judicial system is required to adhere to constitutional law, and that's where the appeals process comes from. I've known quite a few lawyers who do death penalty appeals work. Never met one who got rich doing it.

tntthomas, where it all goes off the rails is at trial level. There's no such thing as fair trials for the poor in this country. Those who can buy the best lawyers prevail at trial. It's especially heinous in small towns where judges tend to appoint some local drunk lawyer who happens to be hanging around the courthouse looking for business. He can't keep it together for a successful law practice and he has little or no money for staff or trial research. I had a job where I had to read trial transcripts. I highly recommend trial transcripts to anyone who believes the U.S. legal system is in any way functional.

Remember OJ Simpson? There was a reason they destroyed Mark Furhman's credibility as a witness; he knew where at least some of the bodies were buried in that case which was set up to exonerate Simpson. Too bad Fuhrman was such a POS because he might have built a real case against Simpson.

Rich people go free or with a shortened sentence. Poor people get the death penalty. It's rarely untrue. Years ago I read some research that said the death penalty is weighted according to who you kill. A poor black guy who kills a rich white guy is on his way to death row. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Kill a poor woman or your own wife and kids? No biggie. Maybe 10 years and you're out.

Another murderer who became a minister in prison is Tex Watson, the leader of Manson's team of killers.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you're saying.

There is a series on Netflix called Confession Tapes, true stories of how people's lives get caught up in the investigation & adjudication process.

Not just realistic, but real. I watch the programs while exercising on my elliptical. I wouldn't call the series "entertaining"....more like disturbing and chilling.
 
Pennsylvania hasn’t executed an inmate since 1999 (I believe.) I don’t know how many we have sitting on death row. The last I knew it was well over 2000. Another Trooper and myself have escorted a few prisoners from county jails or prisons to death row, which right now is only in Rockview Prison, which is not far from Penn State. It’s no Holiday Inn.The prisoner is alone in his cell for 23 hours a day, which I think measures 6’x9’.
 
tnthomas said:
I agree with what you're saying.

There is a series on Netflix called Confession Tapes, true stories of how people's lives get caught up in the investigation & adjudication process.

Not just realistic, but real. I watch the programs while exercising on my elliptical. I wouldn't call the series "entertaining"....more like disturbing and chilling.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've watched Confession Tapes and it's definitely chilling. It's the difference between wanting the guilty brought to justice and having a good arrest record. They are not the same thing.
 
Don M. said:
That's because our present judicial system is so heavily biased in favor of the criminal. Plus, lawyers can get rich defending these slugs with endless appeals. When there is NO doubt about the guilt, there is NO sensible reason to drag these appeals on for years...or decades. There isn't much that I agree with in the Islamic world....but their treatment of a murderer makes a lot more sense than what we do....they hold the trial on Monday, and the execution on Tuesday.
Click to expand...

I worked in the office of an attorney who was appointed to do a lot of these appeals, and believe me, there's not a lot of money in it. Perhaps if the attorney is doing an appeal for a wealthy client, who can afford to pay, but most certainly not in court appointed appeals paid for by the state for those who can't afford it, and there's a HUGE amount of work involved. Part of the reason appeals drag on for so long is that is takes the appellate courts so long to rule, but then they are overburdened, too. And part of it is that most criminal attorneys do not do appeals, and they are farmed out to appellate specialists because it's a whole different ball game than trial work, and there are not a whole lot of appellate specialists.

I do strongly believe that everyone is entitled to due process, and that includes appeals. I don't know what the answer is. It would help, I think, if we had a "life" sentence that REALLY meant life in prison with no possibility.

New Mexico no longer has the death penalty, but we do have two people up on death row whose crimes were committed before the death penalty was abolished here and whose appeals, last time I heard, are still ongoing.
 
I watched several episodes of Confession Tapes, tnthomas, and intend to watch more. Truly chilling. Some of the prosecutors will stop at nothing to boost their record of convictions, even if they are framing an innocent person.

About the death penalty, I might have been more in favor of it before all those people were released from prison after DNA testing became available, and proved them innocent beyond any doubt. Many of the black inmates in Texas prisons were let go. There is a racial component, and also an economic one (often the same thing). Executing even one innocent person is one too many!'

I can hardly imagine any punishment worse than life without parole. And at least, if definite proof turns up that they are innocent, they can still salvage what's left of the rest of their life.
 
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