Evolution vs creationism ?

I totally agree, dragonlady. I don't give a flip if someone wants to believe the earth is flat, as long as they don't demand that I agree with them or that their belief becomes law.

It was great fun to watch Joseph Campbell discuss the myth of the hero as it pertained to Jesus. We need more like Campbell.
 

Of course I have to disagree. Your statement I believe all religion is a form of mythology... " is possibly true with some beliefs, but not Christianity. Let me explain.

first, mythology is defined as: a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something, usually gods, heroes, or legendary heroes; according to Webster.
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[/FONT] In scripture, Acts 2 , the chapter that records the events of the Day of Pentecost, records the first example of the preaching of salvation in the name of Jesus Christ to the general public. I always start here when someone asks me how Christianity began. Of course, "And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" (Acts 11:26) states when they were first named.

The name stuck because of the description of the people around Judea that the believers acted, preached, assembled in homes, worshiped, etc. just like Jesus did, so they were referred to as “little Christs” at Antioch. So, contrary to your opinion, unless you can offer proof, Christianity is not a mythology, but a way of life.

In fact, as Acts 14 relates, there were some pagans in some towns that Paul preached to who were believers in mythology. After Paul had commanded a lame man to stand, he immediately leaped up walked around joyfully. The stunned, heathen crowd wanted to worship Paul and Barnabas as incarnations of the “gods,” Zeus and Hermes, after which the evangelist began to fervently convince the crowds to stop. They proclaimed to them that they were men just as those in the crowd, not worthy of praise. Then when they were finally convinced the crowd that they were mortals, the disappointed heathens stoned Paul and left him for dead.

Christianity could only be a myth if Jesus Himself was a myth. History proves otherwise. Look at the writings of Josephus, Origen, Justin Martyr and others. There is no doubt that Jesus was a historical figure.

And that is what Christianity is based upon - the person, life, teachings, and Godhood of Jesus, not a fictitious god.
 
Exwisehe, of course the "miraculous" events of Christianity could be a myth without Jesus being a myth.

By the same token, Moses probably was a real live person. But that part about him raising his staff and parting the Red Sea is pure myth. Many religions attach myths to the stories about real people. Those tales are still being promulgated in some parts of the world today. Take Kim Jong Un, for instance. In addition to the fact that he has invented a miracle drug that cures cancer, ebola, and aids, I found this about him:

The dictatorship is known for making outlandish claims about its own prowess. The state claims that Kim Jong Il invented the hamburger and had magical powers which meant he did not need to use the toilet.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]They also claim that he was born atop a North Korean mountain prompting a double rainbow and new star to spontaneously appear. Unfortunately for the state, records show that he was born in Siberia.
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Yes, as you say, the "miraculous events of Christianity could be a myth without Jesus being a myth." You are right! But I personally would rephrase it as the "miraculous" events of Jesus "could" be a myth.... but also "could not" be a myth. Of course, that's where our faith comes in, isn't it?

 
Smiling Jane said:
I totally agree, dragonlady. I don't give a flip if someone wants to believe the earth is flat, as long as they don't demand that I agree with them or that their belief becomes law.

It was great fun to watch Joseph Campbell discuss the myth of the hero as it pertained to Jesus. We need more like Campbell.
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Why? How will society benefit? The premise here is that you shouldn't force your beliefs on someone else.

So what do we have then? Hypocrisy in action?
 
No, from the tenors of the posts, I think the premise was posed as: Has the world we know and live in developed through the process of evolution - a pure scientific process, where laws are true only if they can be tested, proven, repeated in the laboratory manner, etc. without any "outside", "unearthly presence", or deity (or other descriptions) or has it been created by an omnipotent and omniscient God?
 
Smiling Jane stated; "I totally agree, dragonlady. I don't give a flip if someone wants to believe the earth is flat, as long as they don't demand that I agree with them or that their belief becomes law.



I tend to agree with you Jane, however - - - -I don't go on cruises. If you enjoy cruise ships and such, you might want to re-think that "flat earth" comment. When at sea, the horizon's only about 12 miles away. if your cruise exceeds that distance, you might be in line for an unpleasant surprise. Ever wonder where those ships go that disappear over the horizon?????:eek1:
 
Every religion, and scientific 'history' too, has an element of mythology to it. Human beings are story tellers and their stories tend to be 'sticky' and attach themselves to other more factual events.

I would be interested to hear how Joseph Campbell deals with the mythology of Jesus. Over the centuries there has been a degree of added myths but the historic Jesus is still there at the centre of the story and he is a man of flesh and bone. His teachings have been recorded and there is a consistent core message, reduced to its essence in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Jesus didn't waste too much time discussing the origins of man or of the earth. He preached about the present and pointed to a better future to come. Nor did he emphasise religious rituals or seek to control people with fear. Whether we believe that Jesus was also divine is up to each of us but to dismiss the historic Jesus as fiction is to ignore reality. The Jesus story is not in the same category as Hercules or King Arthur.
 
exwisehe said:
Of course I have to disagree. Your statement I believe all religion is a form of mythology... " is possibly true with some beliefs, but not Christianity. Let me explain.
.
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I would suspect that most "believers" in most religions feel that theirs is the "one true faith"
As for accuracy, that is highly suspect. Much of what has gone into the Christian bible is based on hearsay evidence written down decades after the events themselves. Then there were the translations - not always translated as they were originally written - both thru error and deliberate editing when the original writing contradicted the church's current opinion on that. The books of the bible are hardly exact translations - there's even some evidence that some "books" were deliberately left out.
Like any "hearsay evidence" that passes thru several sources, the end product is highly suspect.
 
Dragonlady said:
I would suspect that most "believers" in most religions feel that theirs is the "one true faith"
As for accuracy, that is highly suspect. Much of what has gone into the Christian bible is based on hearsay evidence written down decades after the events themselves. Then there were the translations - not always translated as they were originally written - both thru error and deliberate editing when the original writing contradicted the church's current opinion on that. The books of the bible are hardly exact translations - there's even some evidence that some "books" were deliberately left out.
Like any "hearsay evidence" that passes thru several sources, the end product is highly suspect.
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And? So what? No one forces you to read the Bible or believe in a religion do they?
 
I'm thinking Religion should be banned as a discussion topic along with Politics. I cannot see anything positive coming from it.
 
Olivia said:
I'm thinking Religion should be banned as a discussion topic along with Politics. I cannot see anything positive coming from it.
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That's your opinion - and, of course, you're entitled to it, but obviously there are those of us who disagree with that point of view and enjoy such a discussion. Fortunately for us, only the administrator has the power to ban subjects and only for specific reasons.
 
Debate is my cup of tea. I've been on a skeptics debate board for seventeen years. There's only six of us left (not because of religion but because of politics). Two us us are "believers' and four are atheists. When it comes to religion we mainly just ignore each other. if we got into serious debates about it, there would be zero left. Even though we totally disagree we are the six left because we in the end allow each other their beliefs and non-beliefs. I still don't see what arguing about religion accomplishes. It's like that saying--- never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig. It causes bad feelings. No one is going to get converted to either side. It's just going to get people irritated one way or the other. That's my opinion.
 
Olivia said:
Debate is my cup of tea. I've been on a skeptics debate board for seventeen years. There's only six of us left (not because of religion but because of politics). Two us us are "believers' and four are atheists. When it comes to religion we mainly just ignore each other. if we got into serious debates about it, there would be zero left. Even though we totally disagree we are the six left because we in the end allow each other their beliefs and non-beliefs. I still don't see what arguing about religion accomplishes. It's like that saying--- never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig. It causes bad feelings. No one is going to get converted to either side. It's just going to get people irritated one way or the other. That's my opinion.
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And this is where it all goes
I, too, have been in long term debates, and closed door conferences for over 30 years
There is little reward, if any, to ‘winning’
Oh, and toss in some pseudo philosophy to keep the pot stirred

Now, about that pie
Cherry has always been my fav
I think, if anyone has any sense at all, it should be theirs

Arguments?

Anyone?



NQhqOta.jpg
 
Olivia said:
Debate is my cup of tea. I've been on a skeptics debate board for seventeen years. There's only six of us left (not because of religion but because of politics). Two us us are "believers' and four are atheists. When it comes to religion we mainly just ignore each other. if we got into serious debates about it, there would be zero left. Even though we totally disagree we are the six left because we in the end allow each other their beliefs and non-beliefs. I still don't see what arguing about religion accomplishes. It's like that saying--- never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig. It causes bad feelings. No one is going to get converted to either side. It's just going to get people irritated one way or the other. That's my opinion.
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As I said, "That's your opinion - and, of course, you're entitled to it," If you disapprove of our discussing it, you are certainly free not to participate in it, but, with all due respect, you are not free to dictate subjects which which we are allowed to debate.
Nuff said!
 
As I said, "That's your opinion - and, of course, you're entitled to it," If you disapprove of our discussing it, you are certainly free not to participate in it, but, with all due respect, you are not free to dictate subjects which which we are allowed to debate.
Nuff said!
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Neat diversion. :)
 
Dragonlady said:
As I said, "That's your opinion - and, of course, you're entitled to it," If you disapprove of our discussing it, you are certainly free not to participate in it, but, with all due respect, you are not free to dictate subjects which which we are allowed to debate.
Nuff said!
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Apparently the owner or owners of the website have accorded her the right to suggest what should and shouldn't be subjects of discussion.
 
Apparently the owner or owners of the website have accorded her the right to suggest what should and shouldn't be subjects of discussion.
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Yes, I get it.

Apparently, Dragonlady feels I was targeting her. No, I was not. I was simply saying that slamming religious beliefs are not exactly what I and some others feel are appropriate to a Senior Forums community where there are a diversity of members here.
 
Olivia said:
Yes, I get it.

Apparently, Dragonlady feels I was targeting her. No, I was not. I was simply saying that slamming religious beliefs are not exactly what I and some others feel are appropriate to a Senior Forums community where there are a diversity of members here.
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Exactly, so. I am a believer in evolution and not creationism but I respect the rights of others to believe what they choose.
 
Olivia said:
Yes, I get it.

Apparently, Dragonlady feels I was targeting her. No, I was not. I was simply saying that slamming religious beliefs are not exactly what I and some others feel are appropriate to a Senior Forums community where there are a diversity of members here.
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Dragonlady wants to be boss.

I believe that the theory of evolution through natural selection currently offers the best explanation of the origination of species. However, I wish that this position didn't place me in the same category as Dragonlady and a few of her comrades. They're a very nasty bunch.
 
Wow. this went downhill in a hurry! Speaking of nasty! I don't want and will not reply to this area of the thread any further. The handwriting is on the wall and this will deteriorate into further nastiness.
I do not want to be "Boss" and I do not believe you were targeting me specifically. I just want to participate in an ongoing discussion without someone presuming to censor the subject. It certainly appears that you are deliberately stirring the pot with the idea of shutting this thread down. I will post no more in answers to those attempts, but I will contoinue to post to this thread as I feel indicated
 
well I'm targeting everone here when I say I think y'all are nuttier'n pecan pies

of which, come to think of it, are now my favorite

(btw, this thread has evolved to that hot little place one creates when overstating things)

TO THE PIE THREAD!!!
 
DaveA said:
Smiling Jane stated; "I totally agree, dragonlady. I don't give a flip if someone wants to believe the earth is flat, as long as they don't demand that I agree with them or that their belief becomes law.



I tend to agree with you Jane, however - - - -I don't go on cruises. If you enjoy cruise ships and such, you might want to re-think that "flat earth" comment. When at sea, the horizon's only about 12 miles away. if your cruise exceeds that distance, you might be in line for an unpleasant surprise. Ever wonder where those ships go that disappear over the horizon?????:eek1:
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Sorry I missed this, DaveA. I've never been on a cruise because I'm too much of a misanthrope to enjoy being stuck in the middle of the ocean on a ship full of people with whom I would prefer not to associate. I also have an odd form of claustrophobia that manifests itself in making small islands or oceangoing vessels a harrowing experience.

Even so, it's my understanding the horizon only appears flat to those on the planet's surface. Judging from the photos I've seen from space, the curvature seems to become apparent fairly soon.
 

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