On the heels of the latest school shootings...

[Shalimar]

I knew as soon as I posted that I used an improper term. I guess that happens with us OTBs.

So I guess my idea of psychological testing for gun permits is shot down.

Not at all. I think it is a great idea. It won’t stop everyone, but it will help prevent some unstable peeps.

 

[SifuPhil]

Not at all. I think it is a great idea. It won’t stop everyone, but it will help prevent some unstable peeps.

Okay, thanks.

 

[KingsX]

.

Feb 23, 2018

Some Stockton students become violent during anti-gun protest

" STOCKTON, Calif. (KCRA)

At least five students were arrested Friday as hundreds of others from several Stockton high schools walked out of classes in protest of gun violence after last week's deadly shooting at a Florida high school.

Students at Stagg, Edison, Chavez, Lincoln and Village Oak high schools were walking along streets, creating traffic problems in the area as streets were blocked off.

Stockton police said some students threw rocks and damaged both police and citizen vehicles.

Five arrests were made, including charges of battery on an officer, resisting arrest, taking an officer's baton and vandalizing vehicles, including patrol vehicles, Stockton police said.

Those arrested ranged from 14-years-old to 18-years-old. The 18-year-old was booked into the San Joaquin County Jail and the juveniles were cited to their parents, according to Stockton Police. "

more at link

http://www.kcra.com/article/some-stockton-students-become-violent-during-anti-gun-protest-1/18698723

.

 

[Warrigal]

Here is the rest:

During one incident, an officer approached a group of students attempting to leave a school by jumping a fence. When the officer approached the students, police said they fought with the officer and took his baton.


The officer was patrolling an area of the high school while it was placed on lockdown. A person who saw the incident take place came to the officer’s aid until more officers arrived, police said.



“We do support the freedom to protest peacefully and freedom of speech,” said Stockton Police Department’s Public Information Officer Joe Silva. “While the majority of the students were peaceful today, we don’t condone the violence which was committed by a small handful of students. It’s unacceptable to batter a police officer and especially to take an officer’s baton.”

Officials with the Stockton Unified School District released the following statement after the protest:

"Stockton Unified is proud of the peaceful, well organized protests carried out by students on its high school campuses this week. We regret that on Friday some students from one of the high schools left a peaceful protest, walked off campus and created a disruption in the neighborhood. Such activity is not reflective of the values of the overwhelming majority of SUSD students and will not be tolerated."

What is your point KingsX?

There were several "well organized protests carried out by students on its high school campuses this week" and at one campus a group of students, at least 5, left the organised protest and behaved in a very anti social way. They have been arrested and will be charged and dealt with by the courts.

As a teacher this does not surprise me, given the nature of teens. They do sometimes get a kick out of this kind of behaviour but the vast majority do not and did not. At least, they did not shoot anyone and the police did not shoot them.

 

[KingsX]

What is your point KingsX?

The irony... anti-gun students being violent.

Cultural marxists would have no problem using naive high school students as useful idiot cannon fodder.

 

[Seeker]

All I know is... back in my day..All they had to worry about was who was selling drugs. There were no worries about guns. With each generation the threat gets more and more serious. We never had the internet to (one up the other). Seems now they just want to be bigger and better than their predecessor.

 

[Warrigal]

The irony... anti-gun students being violent.
Cultural marxists would have no problem using naive high school students as useful idiot cannon fodder.

Who said they were anti gun? They left the organised protest to make mischief. They could be pro gun, or anti gun or simply antisocial.

Cannon fodder? Are you suggesting that the protest organisers were placing their students in harm's way from enemies who would wish them dead and might actually shoot at them?

Your logic escapes me.

 

[KingsX]

Your logic escapes me.

My logic is based on my knowledge of Communist tactics to further it's evil social agenda, cultural marxism.

 

[Warrigal]

You read that somewhere, didn't you?
Have you ever met a card carrying communist?

 

[Camper6]

I'm going to say the easy availability of guns is the reason for the school shootings.

That is the gig difference from the good old days.

When I was growing up it was rare for anyone to own a gun much less a revolver.

They were expensive. Now they are used to settle arguments.

I would like to see stats per capita on my claim. I don't think they are available.

 

[KingsX]

You read that somewhere, didn't you?
Have you ever met a card carrying communist?

I've never asked to see their "cards"... but I have interacted with them on Russian forums.

But my education about Communists and their evil cultural marxist agenda goes back much further.
Back when I was a high school student, I read many books on the subject, like "Masters of Deceit"
[they certainly are "masters of deceit"] and I was a member of the anti-Communist John Birch Society.

 

[C'est Moi]

I'm going to say the easy availability of guns is the reason for the school shootings.

That is the gig difference from the good old days.

When I was growing up it was rare for anyone to own a gun much less a revolver.

They were expensive. Now they are used to settle arguments.

I would like to see stats per capita on my claim. I don't think they are available.

What a crock. You are in Canada. I am in Texas. All my life I have been around guns, and people who own them. Including myself. No one I know has ever "shot up" anything except target practice and during hunting season. Guns are not used "to settle arguments" except by emotionally disturbed individuals.

Nearly half the households in the US have guns. We raised five children in this house, with guns. They are all responsible adults now with their own homes, and they own guns. Amazingly, we have never used any gun to settle an argument. We are rational and responsible gun owners and plan on continuing to be.

 

[Traveler]

What a crock. You are in Canada. I am in Texas. All my life I have been around guns, and people who own them. Including myself. No one I know has ever "shot up" anything except target practice and during hunting season. Guns are not used "to settle arguments" except by emotionally disturbed individuals.

Nearly half the households in the US have guns. We raised five children in this house, with guns. They are all responsible adults now with their own homes, and they own guns. Amazingly, we have never used any gun to settle an argument. We are rational and responsible gun owners and plan on continuing to be.

I agree. The availability of guns has nothing to do with why some people become violent. People become violent because they are emotionally unstable. If we pay close attention to the nightly broadcasts on TV, and we hear about a husband or boyfriend who has killed his wife/lover, we will also often hear that there was a recent breakup. He thinks he can not live without her. The man has been overcome with a sense of grief, and he becomes emotionally unhinged.

People kill with knives, axes, poison, heavy objects, cars, by choking and of course guns. Blaming the knife for the cause of the murder is ridiculous.

There was a recent case in Southern California where a woman had discovered her man was cheating on her. She waited for him in the employees parking lot. When she spotted him, she ran him over with her car. And, having done so, she backup and ran him over again. Twice more. Are we expected to believe it was the cars fault ?

I don't know the precise psychiatric term for such people, but they are unhinged. I wish more people could get this simple concept though their heads.

 

[Sunny]

If any kid that got wind of a shooting that was being planned would immediately report it, at the very least, some of these shootings could be prevented.

If only it was that simple, 911. I think if all these threats were being reported, the perpetrators would just stop issuing warning threats and get more secretive.

(I wonder: Why the threats, anyway? )

 

[WhatInThe]

If only it was that simple, 911. I think if all these threats were being reported, the perpetrators would just stop issuing warning threats and get more secretive.

(I wonder: Why the threats, anyway? )

Large scale attacks require resources and planning. Both time and money spent increase the chances of detection. Associated behavior even though troublesum or erratic also increase chances of detection. These types are already interested in making a statement. This cowardly murderer in Florida was wanted to make a statement no matter how warped. I saw pictures of him shooting a handgun in his backyard in his underwear and that didn't raise alarms?

Part of the issue with these planned attacks is that authorities or investigators need to go all in with undercovers and their own resources. I think some as with 911 and Parkland were afraid to rock a political boat at the local or national level and did not go all in.

 

[SifuPhil]

If only it was that simple, 911. I think if all these threats were being reported, the perpetrators would just stop issuing warning threats and get more secretive.

(I wonder: Why the threats, anyway? )

People make threats, I think, for a variety of reasons, among them:

• It makes them feel powerful
• It serves as a release, a safety valve
• They feel it will impress other people
• They feel it puts them in control
• Finally, it is one of the steps taken before an actual physical action

This last is part of an involved study I did years ago (which turned into an article and thence a paper) about the various steps leading up to a physical conflict:

• Presence
• Voice
• Touch
• Restraint
• Less-than-lethal force
• Lethal Force

These were written from a self-defense standpoint, but by reverse-engineering them you can arrive at the steps an aggressor will usually go through in a scenario.

In the present situation under discussion, I would think that making threats on social media falls somewhere around #2, Voice. This person may be perfoming a "monkey dance" or ritualistic display of power and aggression through social media. That is his/her "voice" (since the first element, "Presence", cannot be articulated online).

A very abbreviated version of how I used this indexing of behavior in my work can be found here on my website.

 

[Happyflowerlady]

When I was growing up, in north Idaho, everyone had a gun (usually hunting rifles) in their home, and we were all taught as children to NEVER touch our parent’s guns.
We were told to assume that any gun we saw was loaded. Most people didn’t carry around a handgun for protection, because we really didn’t need it; but I imagine that in the larger cities in the US, there would have been more criminals, and people might have needed a weapon to protect themself.
In high school, where some of the students drove a vehicle to school, every pickup had a gun rack in the back window, and most of them had 1-2 rifles year around, but especially during fall hunting season.
The high school principal didn’t object, and if he said anything , it was to admire the hunting rifle.
The worst thing that ever happened was probably some of the older boys smoking on the school grounds. No one did drugs, or was prescribed drugs.
It has been since the doctors started prescribing all of the mind-altering drugs to our school kids (and adults) that this epidemic of irrational killing has started, and most , if not all of the shooters have been on some kind of psychotic drug, and often had been prescribed ADHD drugs when they were school-age children.
It is not the weapon that is the problem here, it is the mind of the shooters.

 

[KingsX]

When I was growing up, in north Idaho, everyone had a gun (usually hunting rifles) in their home, and we were all thought as children to NEVER touch our parent’s guns.
We were told to assume that any gun we saw was loaded. Most people didn’t carry around a handgun for protection, because we really didn’t need it; but I imagine that in the larger cities in the US, there would have been more criminals, and people might have needed a weapon to protect themself.
In high school, where some of the students drove a vehicle to school, every pickup had a gun rack in the back window, and most of them had 1-2 rifles year around, but especially during fall hunting season.
The high school principal didn’t object, and if he said anything , it was to admire the hunting rifle.
The worst thing that ever happened was probably some of the older boys smoking on the school grounds. No one did drugs, or was prescribed drugs.
It has been since the doctors started prescribing all of the mind-altering drugs to our school kids (and adults) that this epidemic of irrational killing has started, and most , if not all of the shooters have been on some kind of psychotic drug, and often had been prescribed ADHD drugs when they were school-age children.
It is not the weapon that is the problem here, it is the mind of the shooters.

Reminds me of Rev 18:23 which refers to the end of the age evil empire, Babylon, "for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

The Greek word KJV translated as "sorceries" could be translated drugs. From that same Greek word [Strong's G5331 - pharmakeia] comes our words, pharmaceuticals & pharmacy. In the Bible, administering poisonous drugs is witchcraft, a capital crime.

 

[AZ Jim]

Obviously a good thread for me to avoid from here on out!!

 

[Sunny]

It is not the weapon that is the problem here, it is the mind of the shooters.

Happyflowerlady, it's also the weapon. Let's say some resident nut case is looking for a way to inflict maximum damage on innocent people. He has two weapons available to him, a knife and an atomic bomb. Which would you rather see in his hands? (I'm deliberately leaving guns out of it; maybe if we all step back and forget about the guns, we can see this for what it is.)

Yes, he's still nuts, which could be the fault of his parents, or the culture he grew up in, or his video games, or violent TV shows, or maybe a chemical imbalance in his brain. So what? The weapon of choice is still of primary
importance.

 

[SifuPhil]

Reminds me of Rev 18:23 which refers to the end of the age evil empire, Babylon, "for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

The Greek word KJV translated as "sorceries" could be translated drugs. From that same Greek word [Strong's G5331 - pharmakeia] comes our words, pharmaceuticals & pharmacy. In the Bible, administering poisonous drugs is witchcraft, a capital crime.

The Greek word "pharmakeia" translates out to "medicine", NOT "drugs.

Now if you had said "pharmakon", which is the older root word of "pharmakeia", THAT translates variously to "remedy", "drug", "poison" or "spell", depending upon how it is translated and used.

 

[James]

I don't think anyone will disagree that It's a sad day when this becomes a normal everyday sight at our schools.

 

[Camper6]

What a crock. You are in Canada. I am in Texas. All my life I have been around guns, and people who own them. Including myself. No one I know has ever "shot up" anything except target practice and during hunting season. Guns are not used "to settle arguments" except by emotionally disturbed individuals.

Nearly half the households in the US have guns. We raised five children in this house, with guns. They are all responsible adults now with their own homes, and they own guns. Amazingly, we have never used any gun to settle an argument. We are rational and responsible gun owners and plan on continuing to be.

Your personal experience is not the norm. Did any of those five children have a semi automatic weapon like the AR-15.

Yep. All my life I have been around guns as well. In fact I have coffee with friends who all own guns. But on my street when I was growing up.? It was rare to have a gun unless you were an avid hunter and ate your kill.

You are missing the point here. It's the mass murders with semi automatics that is in the news and as far as I am concerned, the problem.

Vegas 58, Texas 16, Florida 17.

When a kid or anyone else shoots up a school or anything else it's to settle an argument with that school or group of people.

The guy who shot up the church in Texas was settling an argument with his ex family members.

And with that I am out of here on this topic because I know where it is heading politically.

You can have the last word.

 

[KingsX]

Reminds me of Rev 18:23 which refers to the end of the age evil empire, Babylon, "for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

The Greek word KJV translated as "sorceries" could be translated drugs. From that same Greek word [Strong's G5331 - pharmakeia] comes our words, pharmaceuticals & pharmacy. In the Bible, administering poisonous drugs is witchcraft, a capital crime.

The Greek word "pharmakeia" translates out to "medicine", NOT "drugs.

Now if you had said "pharmakon", which is the older root word of "pharmakeia", THAT translates variously to "remedy", "drug", "poison" or "spell", depending upon how it is translated and used.

Strong's G5331

Transliteration
pharmakeia

Strong’s Definitions

†φαρμακεία pharmakeía, far-mak-i'-ah; from G5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):—sorcery, witchcraft.

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. the use or the administering of drugs
2. poisoning
3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry


more at link

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g5331


Rev 18:23 speaks about the "great merchants of the earth" right before it says all the nations are deceived by pharmakeia.
Drugs... legal and illegal... are a huge global business that makes plenty of "merchants" very wealthy and powerful.

 

[C'est Moi]

I'm going to say the easy availability of guns is the reason for the school shootings.

That is the gig difference from the good old days.

When I was growing up it was rare for anyone to own a gun much less a revolver.

They were expensive. Now they are used to settle arguments.

I would like to see stats per capita on my claim. I don't think they are available.

Your personal experience is not the norm. Did any of those five children have a semi automatic weapon like the AR-15.

Yep. All my life I have been around guns as well. In fact I have coffee with friends who all own guns. But on my street when I was growing up.? It was rare to have a gun unless you were an avid hunter and ate your kill.

You are missing the point here. It's the mass murders with semi automatics that is in the news and as far as I am concerned, the problem.

Vegas 58, Texas 16, Florida 17.

When a kid or anyone else shoots up a school or anything else it's to settle an argument with that school or group of people.

The guy who shot up the church in Texas was settling an argument with his ex family members.

And with that I am out of here on this topic because I know where it is heading politically.

You can have the last word.

Thank you; I'll be happy to have the last word. In your previous post, you made NO REFERENCE to automatic weapons at all; you just said that "guns were not the norm." Then in your response to me, you totally reversed yourself and admitted that "all your life you have been around guns."

So whether they were the norm or not, guns were not the problem then and they are not the problem now.