Medically assisted death for terminally ill

If someone asked for my help, I would of course provide it...if that same person asked for Kevorkian's phone number ?..I'd provide that as well.
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Rgp, the trouble with that logic is that is fits very well with the scenario of a terminally ill person, or a severely handicapped person whose life has become a misery. But what about the perfectly healthy 16-year-old kid whose boyfriend has just broken up with her, and she just doesn't want to go on living any more? Or the young man who has just realized that he is gay, and since he hangs out with a macho crowd, sees no other alternative? Or a million other possible reasons that people might (temporarily) think they just can't go on living? Depression is a common reason, although that is treatable and usually doesn't last forever.

Do you really think all people who want to "end it" at any age and for any reason should receive assistance in doing so? It sounds like that is what you are saying. But what about the above circumstances?
 

Sunny said:
Rgp, the trouble with that logic is that is fits very well with the scenario of a terminally ill person, or a severely handicapped person whose life has become a misery. But what about the perfectly healthy 16-year-old kid whose boyfriend has just broken up with her, and she just doesn't want to go on living any more? Or the young man who has just realized that he is gay, and since he hangs out with a macho crowd, sees no other alternative? Or a million other possible reasons that people might (temporarily) think they just can't go on living? Depression is a common reason, although that is treatable and usually doesn't last forever.

Do you really think all people who want to "end it" at any age and for any reason should receive assistance in doing so? It sounds like that is what you are saying. But what about the above circumstances?
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I, for one, do NOT advocate that anyone, especially teens and young adults, should ever have access to medically assisted suicide, if the situation is temporary, And, most importantly, never for such temporary situations as mentioned above.

However, lets look at the cases of people who have broken their necks and are PERMANTLY quadriplegic. It would be difficult to imagine any worse permanent situation. If such a person wished to go on living, fine. Give them all the support they need.

But if a quadriplegic could not stand living like that, then I say they have a right to end the unimaginable, emotional pain.

In my opinion, there are worse things than death, and being a quadriplegic tops the list.
 
Sunny said:
Rgp, the trouble with that logic is that is fits very well with the scenario of a terminally ill person, or a severely handicapped person whose life has become a misery. But what about the perfectly healthy 16-year-old kid whose boyfriend has just broken up with her, and she just doesn't want to go on living any more? Or the young man who has just realized that he is gay, and since he hangs out with a macho crowd, sees no other alternative? Or a million other possible reasons that people might (temporarily) think they just can't go on living? Depression is a common reason, although that is treatable and usually doesn't last forever.

Do you really think all people who want to "end it" at any age and for any reason should receive assistance in doing so? It sounds like that is what you are saying. But what about the above circumstances?
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Again, I never said a word about assisting anyone..I said if someone I knew asked for my help BEFORE they committed the act, I would try my best to help them. But if that same person [over 21 and free to make their own decisions] {I thought that part would have been obvious} guess not ? ask for Kevorkian's phone number , and i happen to have it ? I would provide that. Not one word did I mention about actual assisting !!

"Do you really think all people who want to "end it" at any age and for any reason should receive assistance in doing so? "

Any age ? No, I'm talking adult...Any reason ? Yes, their reasons are their's & their's alone.

I really doubt there are many [adults] that arrive at that decision , for frivolous reasons... in their mind.
 

Traveler said:
I, for one, do NOT advocate that anyone, especially teens and young adults, should ever have access to medically assisted suicide, if the situation is temporary, And, most importantly, never for such temporary situations as mentioned above.

However, lets look at the cases of people who have broken their necks and are PERMANTLY quadriplegic. It would be difficult to imagine any worse permanent situation. If such a person wished to go on living, fine. Give them all the support they need.

But if a quadriplegic could not stand living like that, then I say they have a right to end the unimaginable, emotional pain.

In my opinion, there are worse things than death, and being a quadriplegic tops the list.
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Agree, 100% .....and the folks you mention really do need help ! Damn hard to do it on their own.

A friend, [more acquaintance actually] was diagnosed with a terminal disease. I was aware , many of us were. He said something 'hinting' but not absolute to me. Late the next afternoon he ended it. After,... I heard his sister went through the same thing , same disease , years earlier and he watched her [go through it] for months. He at some point told an actual friend...I'm not going through that, nor putting my family through it again....Not that it matters but [we] understood.

BTW...this person was one of the nicest you'd ever know !
 
I really do not believe there should be any "qualifiers" required.I believe any person should at any time have the ability to end their life. Life is allot of things to allot of folks. When it stops being what a person wants it to be. If they "want-out" ? IMO that is their business & only their business. Sorry for them that it might come to that, but if relief from what ever burden they are under is what they seek & want ? Then I want it for them.
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Traveler, I agree about the quadriplegic, and the terminally ill people. Or people who are suffering a miserable life due to medical reasons. They should have all the help they need in ending it, if desired.

I was responding to rgp's statement (see above) that anyone wanting help with suicide at any time, for any reason, should get it.

But I think we're really nitpicking this subject to death. We all seem to be pretty much on the same page here.
 
Well I was going to post about physicians oath not to take a life and the legalities of law. However since someone posted about legal rights in some states I had a change of mind. In those states where the "right to die" has been implemented I believe it is in the states constitution of self government. This is in conflict with the federal laws and as far as I know may still be in contention. There are other instances of states rights versus federal laws that are in conflict and persons may still be prosecuted under federal laws. Most states classify suicide as taking of a human life which is defined as homicide, however many do not investigate it as such.
 
Deucemoi said:
Well I was going to post about physicians oath not to take a life and the legalities of law. However since someone posted about legal rights in some states I had a change of mind. In those states where the "right to die" has been implemented I believe it is in the states constitution of self government. This is in conflict with the federal laws and as far as I know may still be in contention. There are other instances of states rights versus federal laws that are in conflict and persons may still be prosecuted under federal laws. Most states classify suicide as taking of a human life which is defined as homicide, however many do not investigate it as such.
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There is no federal law governing "plain ol'" murder. Unless the crime is one that somehow involves federal jurisdiction, like killing a federal worker or killing on federal land, etc.. the laws against murder and such are strictly state laws and the feds have no jurisdiction. States have the right to legislate assisted suicide laws and such would not conflict with federal law.
 
And how do we re-write life insurance laws and/or policies. Believe me, I have no particular sympathy for insurance companies but thy do write policies with a pay in and payout calculation that fits most situations depending on age and health. With all of the other normal uncertainness surrounding the length of our lives, having folks "pulling the plug" 6 months after a policy's issued (to someone, say in their 20's) is a bit of a burden the way policies are issued today. Looks to me as if the rates would skyrocket for everyone??:confused:
 
How many people are going to use assisted suicide? And, anyway, if they were in such bad health, they probably wouldn't have been able to get life insurance in the first place. Likely than not, people would be losing the policy anyway, and I don't think the insurance companies are going to lose any money. If anything, it would be another consideration that someone in those circumstances would have to consider. I have a feeling that insurance companies have already been involved in coming up with decisions regarding this kind of situation. Might be something interesting to research.
 
As far as the original question goes, I am all for the bill. The individual should have the choice to decide if it their decision is morale or not. Some of us might consider it as suicide and some of us might find it as a dignified way to end a life but I feel I don't have the right to judge how anyone decides with such a choice. Personally I would hope that I would take the choice for a merciful death but if I was actually put in such a situation I might chose differently.
 
People in hospice are often on pain medication which controls and eases their pain. I know someone who was in hospice and on strong medicine about 2 years ago. He stayed in hospice on meds until he died and was with his family and friends until the end. I may be the odd one but I believe our time is our time and not up to us. I have to think more on this though. My mother also was in hospice and on fentanyl to ease her pain. She didn't last that long and either did my friend who I mentioned earlier. Hospice in my opinion is the right way to go. I am speaking only of the terminally ill with 6 mos. or less left.
 
Hospice is another alternative however the beds around here are scarce, and waiting list long. For example there one nearby that has 8 funded beds with a waiting list of 60.
 
I had to visit an assisted living "farm" where my father was when his Alzheimer's dictated he could no long remain at hoe. It was a vision of horror to me and that is why I call it a farm. My dad was not as sever as some there and the severe cases were horrible to witness and so I won't describe them. I am in full support of assisted death. Anything is better than what I saw. I recall reading about the British actor George Sanders leaving a suicide note when he was diagnosed and I believe he shot himself. To me when dignity exits it is then time to pass on. Mt auto mechanic calls it "The Cycle of Life" as he called it talking about his father. I asked him "what do you mean by that"? He is from Syria and he told me when we come in to this world we are 100% dependent on other for the basics of life and for some it is also holds true when we approach our deaths and so The Cycle of Life.
 
James said:
Hospice is another alternative however the beds around here are scarce, and waiting list long. For example there one nearby that has 8 funded beds with a waiting list of 60.
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Hospice around here is a home situation as opposed to a institutional one. The hospice people come to your home to tend to your needs until the end.
 
fmdog44 said:
I had to visit an assisted living "farm" where my father was when his Alzheimer's dictated he could no long remain at hoe. It was a vision of horror to me and that is why I call it a farm. My dad was not as sever as some there and the severe cases were horrible to witness and so I won't describe them. I am in full support of assisted death. Anything is better than what I saw. I recall reading about the British actor George Sanders leaving a suicide note when he was diagnosed and I believe he shot himself. To me when dignity exits it is then time to pass on. Mt auto mechanic calls it "The Cycle of Life" as he called it talking about his father. I asked him "what do you mean by that"? He is from Syria and he told me when we come in to this world we are 100% dependent on other for the basics of life and for some it is also holds true when we approach our deaths and so The Cycle of Life.
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I heard it said once as...

We come into this world , toothless, bald & wearin' a diaper....and many of us leave the same way....:)

Dang this is gittin' depressin'....:(
 
AZ Jim said:
Hospice around here is a home situation as opposed to a institutional one. The hospice people come to your home to tend to your needs until the end.
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We have both in my area.

In this area the hospice services are based on a clients ability to pay and run from zero out of pocket up to about $7,000.00/month.
 
DaveA said:
And how do we re-write life insurance laws and/or policies. Believe me, I have no particular sympathy for insurance companies but thy do write policies with a pay in and payout calculation that fits most situations depending on age and health. With all of the other normal uncertainness surrounding the length of our lives, having folks "pulling the plug" 6 months after a policy's issued (to someone, say in their 20's) is a bit of a burden the way policies are issued today. Looks to me as if the rates would skyrocket for everyone??:confused:
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Insurance companies do NOT pay in cases of suicide. The same applies to murder. If a spouse takes out an insurance policy on their mate, and later murders them, the insurance companies definitely do not pay out.
 
Here's something I've found regarding life insurance companies and assisted suicide.

You might be surprised that life insurance policies (unlike most medical insurance policies that won’t cover costs associated with self-inflicted harm) issue a benefit to beneficiaries even when the insured has taken her own life. Whether the policy owner committed suicide or had a physician-assisted death wouldn’t affect the policy’s payout, provided the policy was in place for at least two years.

With both permanent life and term life insurance, the first two years of coverage are known as a “contestability” or “exclusionary” period. If you die within that period, the life insurance company will investigate your death to make sure you hadn’t committed fraud by providing inaccurate or incomplete information on your insurance application (like hiding a terminal diagnosis, severe depression, smoking, etc.).

Life insurance applications are very thorough, gathering many details about your current health, medical history, and lifestyle so insurance underwriters can assess the risk in issuing you a policy. If evidence shows you’ve misled the insurance company, it might withhold some of the benefit payment to your beneficiary or completely deny the claim. In most cases, companies will deny a claim if the insured person commits suicide during the contestability period. That would presumably hold true for physician-assisted death as well.

Note that not all companies nor policies are exactly alike, so you should read through your policy carefully and ask your life insurance professional for clarity on anything within it that you don’t understand.

Read all of it here:

https://www.quickquote.com/blog/life-insurance-companies-handle-death-dignity-cases/
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James said:
Hospice is another alternative however the beds around here are scarce, and waiting list long. For example there one nearby that has 8 funded beds with a waiting list of 60.
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Lots of Hospices where I live. Sometimes they give you one that is run by a charitable foundation before you go to the one that you want. That was the case with my friend. My mom, however, went to the best place right away.
 
I don't understand why hospices got into this discussion at all. In the states where medically assisted suicide is available, isn't it also available when a person is receiving hospice care? I don't think it's one or the other.
 
Cap'nSacto said:
I was just wondering if people choose an assistant because they believe suicide is punishable by God. I still suspect many do, but of course, I could be wrong.
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God, through scripture, doesn't say anything about punishing anyone for the decision to end one's own life as far as I know. On the other hand, He does have a little to say about whether He wants one to do that or not.

https://www.gotquestions.org/mercy-killing.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/euthanasia.html
 
Well...I'm not a "God-sorta-guy" so I believe the assistant part comes from the desire to [go] but do it correctly , completely, and with less mess. True a shotgun in the mouth will 'git'er-done' But that is traumatic for the finder,... family .

Take myself for example...I have no family, all my local [close] friends are dead. If I were to make such a decision ? I really wouldn't want to do it, and just lay here till the mailman notices the smell.

Using 'assisted',... someone knows your plans...and will call the undertaker when the deed is done.
 
rgp said:
Well...I'm not a "God-sorta-guy" so I believe the assistant part comes from the desire to [go] but do it correctly , completely, and with less mess. True a shotgun in the mouth will 'git'er-done' But that is traumatic for the finder,... family .

Take myself for example...I have no family, all my local [close] friends are dead. If I were to make such a decision ? I really wouldn't want to do it, and just lay here till the mailman notices the smell.

Using 'assisted',... someone knows your plans...and will call the undertaker when the deed is done.
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That might explain your willingness to allow people who are not terminally ill to commit suicide without anyone attempting to stop it. I seriously doubt anyone would allow a loved one or close friend to go down that road without trying to stop them with whatever means possible. Then again, I could be wrong.
 
If God is a loving god why then do so many millions suffer so much near the end of the lives? The word "cruelty" was the only thing I could feel while seeing the patients in hospice. So many appeared to be put in a stage of limbo between life and death much like a torture chamber. Suicide is a gift to many of them because if you don't know you are alive what then is the difference between life and death?
 
fmdog44 said:
If God is a loving god why then do so many millions suffer so much near the end of the lives? The word "cruelty" was the only thing I could feel while seeing the patients in hospice. So many appeared to be put in a stage of limbo between life and death much like a torture chamber. Suicide is a gift to many of them because if you don't know you are alive what then is the difference between life and death?
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Personally, I think the treatment of the terminally ill, in this country, is just an extension of our entire Health Care System....in that, it is all about the Money. Modern medicine can keep a brainwave and a heartbeat going for weeks or months...and the doctors/hospitals, etc., reap a huge Bonus for doing so. It costs thousands of dollars, per day, to keep a person technically alive, and most of that is sheer Profit to our providers. About the Only way for an individual to avoid this nonsense is to have a clear and concise set of legal documents prepared, ahead of time....powers of attorney, Do Not Resuscitate, etc. IMO, it should be deemed Cruel and Unusual Punishment to keep a person hooked up to machines, and doped up with drugs, just to extend the inevitable as long as possible. Present policies regarding the terminally ill are just another example of why the U.S. HealthCare Costs are twice as high as most of the rest of the civilized world.
 

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