Medically assisted death for terminally ill

JimW said:
I didn't realize this discussion had any bearing on that. But okay. Cheers!
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That is basically what the whole thing has been about. Live life as one chooses, and end it if one chooses. It couldn't be any more simple.

Back to the 'fine' point...if one is terminally ill? And chooses to fight it hammer & tong..Great ! [assuming I know this person] How can i help. But if this same person decides he is not up for a battle, and says "will you look up Kavorkian's phone number for me"? I'll do that as well. What he wants is what matters...not what i want.

I lost two friends too cancer, one in 2001 another in 2013.

My friend Jim was the first , prostate . He did all the opinions , he said face to face to me , over a beer & a shot..."Buck I'm not going to fight it, I've seen what that does" "I'm not going through that" Let nature take it's course. I said OK, what do you want from me? Take care of Jamie [his dog] I will. That was in April 1998 he lived till Nov 2001. {He beat the six month prognosis by a bunch}

My friend Carl, was diagnosed in Sept 2012 stage 4 lung. He asked what i thought. Jim was his friend as well. I said what ever you want Buck, I'll do what ever I can. He decided on chemo ,not much really that i could do his wife took him to his treatments, he did not do well. He died just after midnight January 2013.

BTW we all called each other "Buck" there were 5 originals...3 of us left.

<caveat> Hope this isn't too much info ? Just explaining my position as I've lived it.
 

rgp said:
That is basically what the whole thing has been about. Live life as one chooses, and end it if one chooses. It couldn't be any more simple
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Problem is that it's not that simple when taking on this complex subject. One thing I've found through my years is that nothing is as cut and dry as it appears on the surface. So many different people in different situations that it's impossible to use cookie cutter law on an issue as complex as this and with the consequence being so final. There's no coming back from this decision. It's great to live life as one chooses, until it starts affecting other people, especially in such grave and permanent ways.

My version of your saying would be more like this: Life life as you choose, but with respect and kindness to your fellow man. Treat people the way you want to be treated and help those in need when you can. Leave a lasting impression because it will be over before you know it.

Sorry for the loss of your friends, losing anyone close to you is always difficult. Not too much info at all.

And seriously, cheers!
 
JimW said:
Problem is that it's not that simple when taking on this complex subject. One thing I've found through my years is that nothing is as cut and dry as it appears on the surface. So many different people in different situations that it's impossible to use cookie cutter law on an issue as complex as this and with the consequence being so final. There's no coming back from this decision. It's great to live life as one chooses, until it starts affecting other people, especially in such grave and permanent ways.

My version of your saying would be more like this: Life life as you choose, but with respect and kindness to your fellow man. Treat people the way you want to be treated and help those in need when you can. Leave a lasting impression because it will be over before you know it.

Sorry for the loss of your friends, losing anyone close to you is always difficult. Not too much info at all.

And seriously, cheers!
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I think we are closer to being on the same page than you think ?

The difference being, for me if person is so far 'down' to [that] point...No I don't think he/she should be asked to consider my feelings, or anyone else's . He/she has enough on their shoulders already. Again my words to them, my feelings on it are...Do what {YOU} need for you....I think myself & the others should be thinking about [them] & what they need.

IMO, being at the brink of suicide has to be about the worse place any of us can be. I can't even image, I also cannot imaging me trying to make decisions for that person at that time.

Thank you for the kind words above........
 

rgp said:
I think we are closer to being on the same page than you think ?

The difference being, for me if person is so far 'down' to [that] point...No I don't think he/she should be asked to consider my feelings, or anyone else's . He/she has enough on their shoulders already. Again my words to them, my feelings on it are...Do what {YOU} need for you....I think myself & the others should be thinking about [them] & what they need.

IMO, being at the brink of suicide has to be about the worse place any of us can be. I can't even image, I also cannot imaging me trying to make decisions for that person at that time.

Thank you for the kind words above........
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:smile-new:
 
Okay, it's looking good here. The state House has approved the Bill and the state Senate is expected to also. We'll see.

Here's some of what the Bill contains from today's local paper.

Under the procedures in the bill, patients would be required to submit two verbal requests a minimum of 20 days apart and one written request to their attending physicians for a prescription.

The written request would have to be signed by two witnesses who can attest the patient is of sound mind, and is acting voluntarily. One of the witnesses cannot be a relative and one witness cannot be someone who stands to inherit anything upon the patient’s death
.
The bill also requires counseling from a psychiatrist, psychologist or clinical social worker after two physicians confirm the patient’s diagnosis, prognosis and competence.
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One thing I'm wondering about: Since several states have approved medically assisted suicide, most have not, would the patient have to be a resident of one of those states, or does it refer to the location of the hospital?
 
I don't know for sure, but a woman moved to Oregon because of their Death with Dignity law. She had to establish residency there. She had brain cancer and had a prognosis of six months to live. Very sad. She was only 29 and had been married for only a year and they were just planning to start a family.

Google Brittany Maynard to get her story.
 
Sunny said:
I don't understand why hospices got into this discussion at all. In the states where medically assisted suicide is available, isn't it also available when a person is receiving hospice care? I don't think it's one or the other.
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I mentioned it because it is an alternative to assisted suicide IMHO. Threads will stray ..:) I do see it as one or the other. I would not go for assisted suicide but rather hospice.
 
My mother decided she would rather die than live in the nursing home my sister tricked her into after a fall. The nursing home had catheterized her and in the process they gave her a terrible infection. She told the people at the nursing home to call hospice. A hospice worker arrived, gave her a big shot of morphine and she was dead within about five minutes.

Not sure in Mom's case hospice was an alternative to medically assisted death.
 
I don't think it's an alternative, Ruthanne. Within a hospice setting, there are probably many choices that people have.

Obviously, anyone who doesn't want medically assisted death doesn't have to have it. That would be murder!
 
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20150516/MAGAZINE/305169982

This article makes it pretty clear that in states where physican-assisted death is legal, it is available in hospice settings. So clearly, hospice is not an "alternative."

As I said before, this is only relevant for those patients who want it. For anyone whose religion or personal philosophy precludes it, it doesn't even enter the picture.

I would be curious to know, however, why anyone would prefer a long, protracted, painful, undignified death to a quick and painless one. (Of course, assuming that the patient is fed up with suffering, and is not
going to get any better.) If the only problem is psychological depression, that's different. That can be treated and managed. I'm talking about terminal physical illness. Why be against medical help in finally ending it?
 
We can play with semantics all we like, but hospice killed my mother. Simple as that. I'm not objecting because that's what she wanted and I truly believe it was for the best. She was not terminally ill, but she was hurt and angry at my sister's betrayal and she was miserable physically because the "health care facility" (using that term charitably) that gave her the infection was also unable to treat it. No surprise there.

Mom lived in one of those Midwestern states that will probably be among the last to consider letting terminally ill people choose to die rather than prolonging their agony.
 
Smiling Jane said:
We can play with semantics all we like, but hospice killed my mother. Simple as that. I'm not objecting because that's what she wanted and I truly believe it was for the best. She was not terminally ill, but she was hurt and angry at my sister's betrayal and she was miserable physically because the "health care facility" (using that term charitably) that gave her the infection was also unable to treat it. No surprise there.

Mom lived in one of those Midwestern states that will probably be among the last to consider letting terminally ill people choose to die rather than prolonging their agony.
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Before it became "legal" here it was a well known fact that it was a given that if you went into hospice care this was available for you if you wanted it.
 
Should hospice be 'no care' including saline solution if patient can't drink or eat? How long should it take a person to die a 'natural' death into today's society. I know one person put in hospice had all treatment including non medicated ivs and it took days of labored breathing from no ventilator and lots of pain medication. Is a person struggling to breath or gasping for air for days humane even though 'asleep'?
 
WhatInThe said:
Should hospice be 'no care' including saline solution if patient can't drink or eat? How long should it take a person to die a 'natural' death into today's society. I know one person put in hospice had all treatment including non medicated ivs and it took days of labored breathing from no ventilator and lots of pain medication. Is a person struggling to breath or gasping for air for days humane even though 'asleep'?
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Yeah, that's where the "do no harm" part of the physician's oath is up for debate. What does more harm, a so-called natural death or a mercy killing?
 
WhatInThe said:
Should hospice be 'no care' including saline solution if patient can't drink or eat? How long should it take a person to die a 'natural' death into today's society. I know one person put in hospice had all treatment including non medicated ivs and it took days of labored breathing from no ventilator and lots of pain medication. Is a person struggling to breath or gasping for air for days humane even though 'asleep'?
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I've known several people who went into hospice care, either at home or in hospital, and they chose the level of care they would receive, i.e., with or without ventilator, etc.
 
My friend went through hell with her mother dying at home. Her mother kept saying "help me, help me". And when she went out of the room and the next time she went back, her mom was dead. Hospice is not free. Even home hospice costs lots of money. That is not say that her mom should have had medically induced suicide. Her mom didn't want that, When her mom was first diagnosed with a tumor in her lung and although she didn't like to see doctors, she said that she would do anything because she didn't want to die. Even at 89 she didn't want to die. No matter how you look at it, dying is tough, and especially for the surviving families. Hospice is not free or cheap even with insurance and especially not even with Medicare. There's not enough thought in our culture about death and what it takes to go through it.
 
Actually, hospice is usually free through your insurance. It was free for my niece and also free for my two friends through Medicare and their supplement; it would have been free for my mother, but she died two days before they were supposed to start coming. And one good thing about hospice is once you enter it hospice takes care of the cost of all your meds.

I've never heard of hospice being expensive. Maybe it is if you don't have insurance or decent coverage.

This is from the Medicare website:

If you're in a Medicare Advantage Plan or other Medicare health plan

Once your hospice benefit starts, Original Medicare will cover everything you need related to your terminal illness. Original Medicare will cover these services even if you choose to remain in a Medicare Advantage Plan or other Medicare health plan. If you were in a Medicare Advantage Plan before starting hospice care, you can stay in that plan, as long as you pay your plan’s premiums.
If you stay in your Medicare Advantage Plan, you can choose to get services not related to your terminal illness from either providers in your plan’s network or other Medicare providers.
If you choose to leave hospice care, your Medicare Advantage Plan won't start again until the first of the following month.
 
The Hawaii Senate has approved a measure that would legalize medical aid-in-dying.
House bill 2739, also known as "Our Care, Our Choice Bill," is now heading to the Governor's office for final approval. All 25 state senators were present and voted on the bill. The final vote was 23 in favor, and 2 opposed.
It earlier passed the House and several key committees and some lawmakers say that's because of the numerous safeguards that have been put in place.
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The governor already said he would sign the bill into law.

It gives me chicken skin.
 
As long as the patient must make the decision for himself/herself, I am strongly in favor of assisted suicide for the terminally ill. I do not think society has a right to force someone to go all the way through an agonizing, inevitable death if the person does not choose to do so. Where does society think it gets the right to insist that one live on in terrible, intractable pain if there is a humane option? I don't see where it is any of society's business to make it illegal for a person to choose a peaceful, humane death over an excruciating one. How do we get that right to make that decision for others??
 

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