rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Well....yet again...I never said said I wouldn't help them {IF} they asked for my help. My "willingness" to "allow" is because I tend to mind my own business....So indeed you are wrong.
Medically assisted death for terminally ill
- Thread starter Olivia
- Start date
Well....yet again...I never said said I wouldn't help them {IF} they asked for my help. My "willingness" to "allow" is because I tend to mind my own business....So indeed you are wrong.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Agree 100%
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Indeed, once we get to that stage, we become a cash-cow to the medical industry. Which is why IMO assisted suicide is illegal in the first place. The medical industry has too many politicians in their pocket, perhaps particularly big-pharma.
I think assisted suicide is still illegal in most U.S. states because of the worry that the elderly with expensive illnesses may take the suicide route for their family, to not burden them and/or having eventually nothing to leave to them by the time they die. And also grown children, etc., taking advantage of their elderly relatives and talking them into suicide because they want the inheritance.That's really the main problem, I think. And, yes, there is the religious angle, too.
It is true that many families go bankrupt because of medical costs. So more incentive to go the suicide route even when there's still some quality of life there. Death is so final.
It is true that many families go bankrupt because of medical costs. So more incentive to go the suicide route even when there's still some quality of life there. Death is so final.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
You make some good points...and may be exactly right ? But I still think the 'fine-print' should be able to be worked out. But I still smell some medical industry greed in there.
And you are right...death does take up allot of our time....
And you are right...death does take up allot of our time....
I agree also, Farmdog.
Somebody mentioned "the religious angle." I feel very strongly that a person's religion should dictate the decisions he/she makes for him/herself. Not for someone else. In other words, the state has no business passing laws based on the religion of just some of the people living there. Separation is still a very good idea.
Smiling Jane
Senior Member
- Location
- Albuquerque NM
A neighbor suffered with emphysema for a number of years, then she was told she had a mass in one of her lungs. She refused to have surgery because she was too tired and miserable with the emphysema and she wanted to die.
Her daughter is a close friend, and she said her mother had stockpiled enough drugs to kill herself if it ever got too bad for her to go on. We both thought it was her decision and no one else needed to be involved or had the right to interfere.
Her son knew how she felt about going on living, but he talked her into being hospitalized and was working on getting her to consent to surgery when she died suddenly. I've always figured she took her pills with her when she went to the hospital and she finally decided it was time.
I doubt we ever have assisted death in this state, and that means people have to take care of it themselves. If I'm ever sick or in pain, I will opt to do what she probably did.
Her daughter is a close friend, and she said her mother had stockpiled enough drugs to kill herself if it ever got too bad for her to go on. We both thought it was her decision and no one else needed to be involved or had the right to interfere.
Her son knew how she felt about going on living, but he talked her into being hospitalized and was working on getting her to consent to surgery when she died suddenly. I've always figured she took her pills with her when she went to the hospital and she finally decided it was time.
I doubt we ever have assisted death in this state, and that means people have to take care of it themselves. If I'm ever sick or in pain, I will opt to do what she probably did.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
The trouble is...if you have a sudden event..and are hospitalized for it...you might linger in there for a damn eternity. They won't release you, and your too sick / weak to escape....scary crap.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
I for one would / do, support total separation. We all MUST live under our government...religion should be only by ones choice...and for oneself .
Smiling Jane
Senior Member
- Location
- Albuquerque NM
Lara
Friend of the Arts
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic Coast
I worked in a hospital for 8 years and I believe there is actually a rush to get patients to recover as quickly as possible and move them out to free-up beds for incoming patients needing procedures. If a hospital is looking at it from a purely monetary standpoint, and unfortunately some do, procedures bring in more money than those patients in a vegetative state so that would also be a reason not to prolong the vegetative state.Don M. said:
...and also, it might be considered "playing God" to try to prolong a life with man-made machines and drugs when said life is clearly intended by God to end according to His perfect timing. I certainly think we should try to save lives if there is a glimmer of hope that they will recover, but when a doctor deems it hopeless then it's time to let go.
Thank you, Lara. In my opinion you said it just the way it needed to be said. I believe it with all my heart. My mom was in the hospital 2-1/2 months. And if she could have been moved to home, she would have been, which I promised her she would come home, which makes me so sad I couldn't make good on that promise. The nurses were so good but overburden. We eventually moved her to a new hospital in the same building complex where when I walked into her room there would be a nurse smiling walking out and she would be on her bed smiling. The thing is because of her tracheotomy to have a better breathing device she couldn't talk (which made me very sad) but somehow she was able to tell the nurses what she wanted, and they told me how they prayed with her in the night. Those were angel nurses in that facility. I don't know how it is there now, but nurses are really just so much overworked.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
I also support total separation of church and state. I, for one, would never attempt to impose my religious beliefs on another's behavior or choices, and believe it is wrong to do so.
HOWEVER, we will never have total separation of church and state as long as we continue to vote for politicians who believe they DO have the right to impose their beliefs upon others, and we will continue to see that happening regarding issues such as abortion, LGBT rights, assisted suicide, etc., as long as voters continue to vote for those politicians.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
They do that here, too, unless they can't manage it at home. In my niece's case, they could not manage her at home at home very near the end so they had to admit her to a hospice unit.
Smiling Jane
Senior Member
- Location
- Albuquerque NM
Hear Hear
I second that motion!
Geez you're confusing. You've stated many times in this thread that you are more than willing to allow anyone who wanted to end their life the right to do so, no matter the circumstances behind their thinking, with no questions asked. Yes you've stated that you would help them if they asked you, but if they didn't ask for your help you would give them your blessing in ending their life without trying to intervene by any means necessary. I'm not stating that you claim any different than that. I believe we're on the same page there, yes?
My line of questioning is to attempt to find out how a fellow human being can put such a low value on another human being's life. Your statement about being all alone and having no relatives or close friends seemed like it could be a possibility for that line of thinking. You see, it's not a normal train of thought nor is it morally responsible for one human being to be so willing to allow another human being to end their life without at least attempting to prevent it. Could you really stand by and do nothing as someone ends their life because they're boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse has left them for someone else, or what if they get the wrong side dish with their meal? Where do you draw the line? I'd like to know where that train of thought comes from.
Yes, clearly supporting separation of church and state means voting against those who are using people and their religious beliefs to get votes.
The fact is, most of those politicians couldn't care less about religion. And the religious right know it, but are happy to put those people in office in the hope that some of their ideas will take over. They are both
using each other to get what they want. And never mind what the rest of us want!
The fact is, most of those politicians couldn't care less about religion. And the religious right know it, but are happy to put those people in office in the hope that some of their ideas will take over. They are both
using each other to get what they want. And never mind what the rest of us want!
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Not confusing at all. Very simple really, I draw the line at minding my own business.
"My line of questioning is to attempt to find out how a fellow human being can put such a low value on another human being's life. "
I don't put the the value on this persons life....they do. If they decide they want out of this life, out of this world, that is their business only.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Pipe dream I know...but wouldn't it be nice if we could sweep them all out & start over?
But ya know what?...in short order we would be right back where we are.
To many control freaks in our society...They know all there is to know about how all of us should live. And they cannot wait to impose their way on us.
I have intervened many times during my career with people that were hell bent on killing themselves for many reasons outside of what this topic was originally covering.
In those cases it was going to be a permanent solution for a temporary problem. The intervention allowed them to get the help they needed to address whatever problem(s) they had and move on with their lives.
Losing someone to death naturally or in tragic circumstances such as an auto crash etc is one thing, but the devastation that suicide brings and leaves on surviving friends and family is a torture like no other.
That's where you're 100% incorrect. Any non-terminally ill person who is willing to end their life is not in the proper frame of mind to make such a judgement as to what their life is worth. They are usually suffering from depression or some other mental disease. No mentally sane person has ever woken up one morning and decided to off themselves, just because. It simply doesn't happen. Which is why allowing someone in this state to take their own life is not "minding your own business", it's negligent at best. And that's why you will never see any such law allowing a person who is not terminally ill to commit suicide.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
You intervened as a 'responding officer' ? That is entirely different, that is part of your job.
Pick any of the ones you have been involved in....am I suppose to stick my nose in ? NO!
That person should have the right to do so, you helped them change their mind , Fine
When the 'event' was over...I'd buy you a coffee [& a doughnut]
for a job well done.The only way I could be involved in any of those cases is as a voter. I would vote to give that person the right to do as they choose .
It's really moot anyway, when ya think about it...I mean if they are successful?....it's all done. Permission not needed. If they try & fail?...so we what arrest them, and add to their misery?