Here we go again...white guy shoots black kid

Now you are being contrary. I was pointing to the law that allows police to confiscate guns from criminals once they have a Firearm Prohibition Order in place. It doesn't affect the whole population, just certain persons who have demonstrated that they should not have access to firearms. If the criminals obeyed the laws the police wouldn't be stopping them and searching their persons, cars, clubhouses and houses for weapons.

I'm asking whether you see this as infringing the right to bear arms as specified in the US Constitution.
It's a serious question.
 

Making it illegal for criminals to own guns, what a unique concept. One thing that seems to always be overlooked though, the reason they are called criminals is because they do not obey laws.
In case you haven't noticed it is against the law for criminals to have guns here too. Our criminals don't obey laws either. I guess we could make it illegal to not obey laws.:yeahright:


Lately its seems everytime a law breaker is arrested,he is also armed.
"where did you get this gun and where are the serial numbers?? Oh at a garage sale,2 blocks west of here...go look."
 
when buying a firearm in the us, a backround (FBI) check is run on the applicant, if they have a record the firearm is not released. this is true in every state. That is not the issue.
the issue -- law abiding citizens, who have a clean record, training with the weapon, and a concealed carry permit are not allowed in certain states, this is a constitutional violation.
some criminals carry guns, because they know that other criminals will try to steal there stuff. these same criminals may or may not use these guns against someone else. The type of weapon one can buy at a garage sale, is not satisfactory for carry or self defense, they are usually old relics and broken. Firearms transfers across the internet must be conducted thru a licensed firearms dealer complete with the FBI backround check. Sales of firearms to someone you know, like a relative or one your friends you shoot with ( who also happens to be a federal judge as an example) do not need a backround check. Buying a gun legally and just selling it is called a straw purchase, and is illegal. Less than 1% of the crimes committed with guns are solved with anything to do with the serial numbers. Tracking down the original purchaser is meaningless and a hold over from the alcohol prohibition era.

Davey -- did you wake up some morning and find you were the only one not packin?
 

adding that in the scene of a crime all guns/weapons are confiscated regardless of the statue (police record etc,) of the people involved until it is sorted out. In same states they are returned once the legal part is sorted out. in some states they are ground up regardless of who was involved. ( a violation of another constitutional right dealing with unlawful seizure).
 
All this talk about too many guns is way off base as far as I am concerned.
What we should be asking is "Why do we have so many mentaly deranged people on the street."
Guns are not the problem, never have been the problem, and will never be the problem.
People are the problem. So lets keep doping these kids up instead of taking time to love them and teach them.
 
Several problems here also, there are not enough hospitals, prisons, and beds for the mentals (what ever that is). They are put on the street because they can't get the quality health care. In the us we have sick care not health care. no one to pay for it. whats the difference between the two, it's like pornography -- you know it when you see it.
the anti-gun agenda in the us is to put gun violence in the same category as health problems. thus by declaring someone unfit mentally they take away there rights. Currently any veteran diagnosed with post traumatic shock cannot have a firearm in Cal. and it will be confiscated. this is just one ave. of gun confiscation. so regardless of the lack of connection it gets back to guns. Pro gun people had enough of Clinton and from that time forward have taken a very hard line. There will be no give. You are on one side or the other.
 
I'm with you on that Justme, we need to take that constitution and burn it at a town meeting. Those scumbag news reporters need to be held accountable for what they say, no more free speech for them. And speaking of love affairs I couldn't be happier with the new gay laws. I can't think of a better way to keep them from reproducing.

Well, it's too early in the morning to be drinking, so I'm presuming this is exactly how you feel.....WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Well said SeaBreeze. Rude teenagers. Stupid guy with a gun. Black/White. Florida. Collapse of social graces. Recipe for disaster.

Ditto on everything stated by SB and TG and what the hell is going on in FL? Way too much bad stuff and way too little punishment for it. Last one I recall that was properly handled was Ted Bundy. Since then it appears no matter what the crime (thinking specifically of Casey Anthony and Zimmerman), they walk! This guy is guilty as sin, IMO. No report to police and left the city. Innocent people just don't handle it in that manner after an incident such as that. Again, JMO!
 
All this talk about too many guns is way off base as far as I am concerned.
What we should be asking is "Why do we have so many mentaly deranged people on the street."
Guns are not the problem, never have been the problem, and will never be the problem.
People are the problem. So lets keep doping these kids up instead of taking time to love them and teach them.

I agree, the issue with the people who are using the guns is being completely ignored. They are giving our young children anti-psychotic, antidepressant drugs at a very young age, doses are increased and new drugs are introduced, all of these create suicidal and homicidal behavior, and this should not be ignored...


[/• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazepine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?
• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado? (ZOLOFT)
• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?
• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_ma...#ixzz2fHaNGdNo


The media likes to downplay the severe effects of these psychiatric drugs, because it is not in the best financial interests of the pharmaceutical companies, and in the end, it's all about the money...http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-bu...y-shooter.html

Well, it's too early in the morning to be drinking, so I'm presuming this is exactly how you feel.....WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you read back Katy, you'll see that Rt3 was just making a point.

Since then it appears no matter what the crime (thinking specifically of Casey Anthony and Zimmerman), they walk! This guy is guilty as sin, IMO. No report to police and left the city. Innocent people just don't handle it in that manner after an incident such as that. Again, JMO!

I agree Katybug, both Dunn and Zimmerman instigated the confrontation by putting their noses where they didn't belong. They provoked a fight and then hid behind the self-defense excuse. Fact of the matter is, if Zimmerman wasn't following that boy like that, and let the cops look into the matter, the teen would be alive today. Dunn demanded they turn down their music, who is he to make such demands? They were both guilty IMO. Casey Anthony...well, I can't even wrap my head around that murderer going free, she has no heart or soul. :mad:
 
Where did you get that information about the medications taken by those people, Katybug.
Did it come out at an inquest?

I see you have referenced some court records and toxicology results, but who/what is the source of the compilation ? I'm very interested and will try to trace the source myself.

I've found it. http://www.cga.ct.gov/asaferconnecticut/tmy/0128/Diana Gaita - Bethel CT.pdf

It is the testimony of Diana Gaita who submitted it to the Bipartisan Task Force on Gun Violence Prevention and Children’s Safety. At the end of her testimony she declares her interest
Again I STRONGLY OPPOSE all new laws/regulations regarding gun control
Thank you,
Diana Gaita

She hasn't supplied a reference for her assertions, so I'll keep looking.

There were a lot of people submitting testimony to this task force. They can be read here:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/asaferconnecticut/testimony.asp?sWhich=0128

I won't be reading them all but I picked an early one from Sandy Hook. She doesn't say much but she nevertheless speaks volumes:

I am a second grade teacher at SHS who survived the horrific events on 12/14. Please do everything in your power to convince politicians and business people that gun control laws are vital to the well being of the next generation. We must start there.
Respectfully,
Abbey Clements
I also found a reference to legislation passed in Connecticut following the Sandy Hook massacre.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/BA/2013SB-01160-R00-BA.htm

I'd be interested in all points of view.


 
Where did you get that information about the medications taken by those people, Katybug.
Did it come out at an inquest?

I see you have referenced some court records and toxicology results, but who/what is the source of the compilation ? I'm very interested and will try to trace the source myself.

If you're addressing me Warrigal, I just got the information at the link provided, I never had reason to trace the source, but if you find out anything interesting, please let us know.
 
All interesting posts on this subject... my guess would be that the young lad should have shown some respect to the older man and turned down the music.instead they turned it up and cursed , we all know the language of these young ones.. ! . the older guy apparently named Dunn said nope your not going to talk to me like that. Dunn`s attorney, Cory Strolla told Jurors Dunn felt threatened and fired in self defence.. , under Florida Law Dunn had every right not to be a victim.. , the defence attorney said [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]During the argument Davis brandished the pocket knife , which was 4 inches and serrated when opened and was supposed to have said to Dunn [/FONT]During the argument, Davis brandished the pocket knife, which was 4 inches and serrated when opened, and was supposed to have said to Dunn I should kill you right now to which Dunn felt threatened.. ! then he was the murderer.. the law is strange isn`t it ? at least it wasn`t pre-meditated it was a spur of the moment.. act in anger maybe.. !






 
I will start a thread on that in health.

the white guy didn't shoot the kid because of the music, he complained the music was to loud, to which the kids told him to "take a flying leap (polite version)" and the one that was shot pulled a shining something from his coat, and the guy thought it was a gun. so he beat him to the draw, except no gun was found in the vehicle.

That's the whole bone of contention for me....I don't think there was ever a shining threatening anything. The shooter was simply enraged and didn't have the maturity and wasn't lucid enough to walk away or call the police before the tragedy. He also has a bad background, not to mention he had quite a few drinks under his belt. If he had called police after it happened, I may feel differently, but to take his partner back to his room, have pizza & wine and go to bed, then travel back home....something is so very wrong with this picture. His g/f had to insist he call the police because they heard the young man had died and only then did he call them. Who among us would have handled it in the same manner? These are the facts and I am blown away that there was a holdout(s) on the jury.
 
That's the whole bone of contention for me....I don't think there was ever a shining threatening anything. The shooter was simply enraged and didn't have the maturity and wasn't lucid enough to walk away or call the police before the tragedy. He also has a bad background, not to mention he had quite a few drinks under his belt. If he had called police after it happened, I may feel differently, but to take his partner back to his room, have pizza & wine and go to bed, then travel back home....something is so very wrong with this picture. His g/f had to insist he call the police because they heard the young man had died and only then did he call them. Who among us would handled it in the same manner? These are the facts and I am blown away that there was a holdout(s) on the jury.

Exactly! Common sense tells you not to walk into a group and tell them what to do if you don't want problems, if you see someone doing something wrong, tell the proprietor or call the police.....since when is loud music or radio a reason for such outrage.
 
Exactly! Common sense tells you not to walk into a group and tell them what to do if you don't want problems, if you see someone doing something wrong, tell the proprietor or call the police.....since when is loud music or radio a reason for such outrage.

I agree with both of you. This man did a stupid thing and caused a death. He should suffer the consequinces.

I don't agree with people wanting to ban MY guns because of what HE did.
 
That's the whole bone of contention for me....I don't think there was ever a shining threatening anything. The shooter was simply enraged and didn't have the maturity and wasn't lucid enough to walk away or call the police before the tragedy. He also has a bad background, not to mention he had quite a few drinks under his belt. If he had called police after it happened, I may feel differently, but to take his partner back to his room, have pizza & wine and go to bed, then travel back home....something is so very wrong with this picture. His g/f had to insist he call the police because they heard the young man had died and only then did he call them. Who among us would have handled it in the same manner? These are the facts and I am blown away that there was a holdout(s) on the jury.

I would have handled it in a completely different manner. I wouldn't approach a car load of teens, with an attitude, and chip on my shoulder, demanding that they lower their rap music. Only an idiot would think there would be no objection to that demand, IMO. I would have responded exactly the way they did if that jerk approached me and started to try to bully me into doing what he wanted. It was none of his business, and I agree having some alcohol in him made him even more obnoxious about the whole thing I'm sure. If he has that much anger in him, he should seek counseling. :rolleyes:

Exactly! Common sense tells you not to walk into a group and tell them what to do if you don't want problems, if you see someone doing something wrong, tell the proprietor or call the police.....since when is loud music or radio a reason for such outrage.

I agree, he could have talked to the manager of the store, or called the local police if there was a noise violation taking place.

I don't agree with people wanting to ban MY guns because of what HE did.

I don't agree with them either, never will. Although I don't agree with them, I respect their right to their own opinions about it, and won't stoop to calling them names similar to "gun lovers" or "deranged", as they have used to described those of us who do not want to have our guns removed by a nanny government that's supposed to babysit and protect each an every one of us in an emergency situation. Yeah, call 911, hide in a closet, and see if your throat isn't slit by morning, etc.

Or in a natural disaster, where the people start looting and breaking into homes and vehicles to steal whatever they can from innocent citizens, and they use the excuse on the news that the police were too busy with other things to worry about those individual families who were victimized.

I will not be a victim in a situation like that, they will not come in, beat me up, and steal everything I've worked hard for, and any food/water I have available for my family. People forget how one snowstorm could empty supermarket shelves in 12 hours, what happens in 12 days. The criminal plan is to steal from those who have. If you're depending on a cop to sit on your doorstep, good luck with that.
 
I agree with both of you. This man did a stupid thing and caused a death. He should suffer the consequinces.

I don't agree with people wanting to ban MY guns because of what HE did.

Its not about banning your guns,it more like what is your state of mind after a few years.
I do believe that if you want to own a handgun,you should submit yourself,every couple of years, to a medical physician such as a psychologist, psychiatrists to see if you're still capable of owning a handgun.
 
hB0D68EFB
 
the problem is who gets to define the conditions of the mental illness when the basic notion of protecting yourself when someone is beating on you needs no definition.
 
the problem is who gets to define the conditions of the mental illness when the basic notion of protecting yourself when someone is beating on you needs no definition.

Come on now, all those criminal attackers are perfectly sane rt3! They even go for annual evaluations to show their state of minds for their street-gun ownership. :rofl: (ps: that was sarcasim for those who were not aware)
 


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