Immigrant caravan

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C'est Moi said:
I'm not at all convinced that technology would make farm workers obsolete. That said, there is NO REASON why immigrants who want to enter the US for seasonal work could not do so legally with a work visa... pay taxes, etc.
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There are several work programs. The San Ysidro/Tijuana land port alone, handles, 8,000,000 border crossings/year. Many, of them work in the U.S., and live in Mexico.

Part of the problem is that SOME can not pass a criminal background security check but still want to work in the U.S. Or they just do not want to wait their turn and so they enter illegally.

Believe me, there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions who have valid temporary work permits. Another part of the problem is that the vast numbers of people who want to live in the U.S., FAR, FAR exceeds our ability to absorb them. Hence, the illegals.
 

Meanwhile, the US Ambassador to Mexico officially stepped down yesterday amid increased border threats. Last March, when she first announced she would leave, it was reported that she would possibly be replaced by a former CEO of GM and AT&T. I don't know if that has happened yet but Jacobsen is now officially gone.

Just a personal aside....AT&T is the worst company when it comes to customer service. I could go on and on and on and on.
 
Happyflowerlady said:
This is definitely an important part of the whole scenario. If it were just people coming in and working for the fruits and vegetables season (which is mostly what used to happen), then this would not be such an issue.
Where a lot of the problem comes in is that it is not just workers; but whole families, with a multitude of kids as well. Since the men are illegal, they find jobs where they can work and be paid in cash, to stop any money trace. They do not pay any taxes like most American workers have to do, or anything into Social Security or medicare.
However, they get all of the benefits from these programs.
Since they do not show any kind of incomes, they can qualify for food stamps, low-income housing, free medical benefits, and sometimes SSI as well.
This means that the whole family can live essentially for free, and save all of the money that they earn.

Besides these benefits, there are a lot of charities and churches that give free groceries and other items to these people. The food pantry here always has the Hispanic women with all of their little kids running around while they are getting free groceries almost every day of the week,
These women are well dressed in nice clothes, and the little kids have those shoes with the flashing lights on them, and most of the adults and the kids all have cell phones or tablets as well.

It is not right that we have our elderly skimping by with old thrift store clothes and cheap ramen noodles to eat, while the illegal people feel that they have every right to come to this country and avail them selves of benefits that they have not worked for or contributed into in any way.

As Traveler pointed out, many of these people think that laws do not matter and that they can live anywhere they want to, with no borders.
They do not like what happens in their own country, but they want to come here and create the same lawlessness that they are trying to get away from in Mexico.
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Immigrants do not qualify for many of the programs to which you refer.

Here is a list of what federal benefits immigrants do and do not qualify for, with citations to the applicable federal law:

What Types of Welfare Are Immigrants Eligible For?

As of the 1996 welfare reform bill, the following applies to eligibility for federal and state funded welfare programs:


  • Legal immigrants are barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years after entering the country and barred from SSI and food stamps until citizenship. They are also barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years.[SUP]1[/SUP]
  • Benefits available to immigrants include school lunch and breakfast programs, immunizations, emergency medical services, disaster relief, and others programs that are necessary to protect life and safety as identified by the attorney general, regardless of immigration status.[SUP]2[/SUP]
  • Illegal immigrants are barred from the following federal public benefits: grants, contracts, loans, licenses, retirement, welfare, health, disability, public or assisted housing, post secondary education, food assistance, and unemployment benefits. States are barred from providing state or locally funded benefits to illegal immigrants unless a state law is enacted granting such authority.[SUP]3[/SUP]


  1. Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) § 110.
  2. PRWORA § 411. Exceptions include refugees, asylees, those granted withholding of deportation for their first five years in the U.S., veterans, active duty military, and their spouses and dependents. After the five-year bar on federal benefits, states may offer Medicaid, federal cash assistance (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families - TANF) and services under the SSBG if deeming provisions are applied.
  3. PRWORA § 432.
 
Butterfly said:
Immigrants do not qualify for many of the programs to which you refer.

Here is a list of what federal benefits immigrants do and do not qualify for, with citations to the applicable federal law:

What Types of Welfare Are Immigrants Eligible For?

As of the 1996 welfare reform bill, the following applies to eligibility for federal and state funded welfare programs:


  • Legal immigrants are barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years after entering the country and barred from SSI and food stamps until citizenship. They are also barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years.[SUP]1[/SUP]
  • Benefits available to immigrants include school lunch and breakfast programs, immunizations, emergency medical services, disaster relief, and others programs that are necessary to protect life and safety as identified by the attorney general, regardless of immigration status.[SUP]2[/SUP]
  • Illegal immigrants are barred from the following federal public benefits: grants, contracts, loans, licenses, retirement, welfare, health, disability, public or assisted housing, post secondary education, food assistance, and unemployment benefits. States are barred from providing state or locally funded benefits to illegal immigrants unless a state law is enacted granting such authority.[SUP]3[/SUP]


  1. Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) § 110.
  2. PRWORA § 411. Exceptions include refugees, asylees, those granted withholding of deportation for their first five years in the U.S., veterans, active duty military, and their spouses and dependents. After the five-year bar on federal benefits, states may offer Medicaid, federal cash assistance (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families - TANF) and services under the SSBG if deeming provisions are applied.
  3. PRWORA § 432.
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There you go again. Screwing up a good rant with actual facts!
While my area has migrant workers in the vineyards and orchards, many of the immigrants legal and not are year round residents. The most publicized of the ICE raids are at dairy farms,which are not seasonal jobs.
 
Butterfly, that reform bill you posted is from 1996. That was 22 years ago.
It's been changed since then, parts scrapped, some replaced, but I'm not an expert on the details.
 
Someone explain how they got through the border. I saw yesterday nearly all of them are inside California! Just a couple days ago they were still in Mexico.
 
FMDOG, They got through the border by claiming they were in danger in their home county. There are several gapping a loop-holes in our laws which allow for people to claim asylum status. Federal law allows for almost instant entry into the U.S. under certain conditions.

Whether those people are literally in danger is anybody's guess.
 
Butterfly, I went into some detail on how easy it is to LIE and get Federal benefits. If you choose to ignore what is actually happening, then I can't help you.

We should not be surprised that if a person is willing to deliberately violate Federal law by crossing the border illegally, we should not be surprised if they also lie to get free stuff.

It is especially easy when states like California, actively assist illegal immigrants in violating Federal law.
 
Traveler said:
Butterfly, I went into some detail on how easy it is to LIE and get Federal benefits. If you choose to ignore what is actually happening, then I can't help you.

We should not be surprised that if a person is willing to deliberately violate Federal law by crossing the border illegally, we should not be surprised if they also lie to get free stuff.

It is especially easy when states like California, actively assist illegal immigrants in violating Federal law.
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I am not disputing that people lie to get benefits. I am also not disputing that California provides benefits to immigrants, i.e., food assistance, etc., that are not available under federal law. California reportedly has passed legislation that allows it to do so as a state, as the PRWORA allows states to do.
 
Welfare Reform was good for 5 years (1996-2001) then expired. TANF (temporary assistance for needy families) is in effect today but also needs reforming. Changes have been made regarding restorations and programs (since welfare reform of 1996) but non-citizen eligibility hasn't changed. An executive order was signed in 2017 for more changes but is still awaiting congressional attention.

"In the years since the implementation of the [welfare reform] law, Congress has made several important federal restorations for noncitizens in the Food Stamp and Supplemental Security Income Programs but noncitizen eligibility rules for TANF (temporary assistance for needy families) and Medicaid remain as they were legislated by PRWORA. However, because the law has expired (5 years) and must be reauthorized, the possibility for future changes in the eligibility of noncitizens is in the hands of federal policymakers. As they continue to hash over issues of welfare eligibility, "Congress will debate how to balance fairness with necessary budget considerations. This chapter details the changes in immigrant eligibility for welfare benefits, situates the changes in a broad political and social context, and addresses future policy concerns."
https://www.brookings.edu/research/welfare-reform-and-immigrants/
 
I don't see temporary benefits as an expense as much I see it as an investment in people and our future as a nation.

I would rather see my tax dollars go towards feeding educating and providing healthcare to folks, until they get on their feet, than live with the consequences of not providing such basic human services.

Imagine the loss of our own personal freedom if we have to produce proof of citizenship each time we have a problem. How many people legal and illegal would have to die on the side of the road because they cannot produce proof of citizenship papers to ensure proper medical care.

Imagine the increase in crime that would occur if poor people are deprived of access to basic human services in the greatest nation on earth.

Imagine the vast sums of money wasted fighting the poor instead of helping them.

It really doesn't matter to me which side of the border these people are on, I just don't have the stomach for waging war on the poor and if that is unAmerican then so be it.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I don't see temporary benefits as an expense as much I see it as an investment in people and our future as a nation.

I would rather see my tax dollars go towards feeding educating and providing healthcare to folks, until they get on their feet, than live with the consequences of not providing such basic human services.

Imagine the loss of our own personal freedom if we have to produce proof of citizenship each time we have a problem. How many people legal and illegal would have to die on the side of the road because they cannot produce proof of citizenship papers to ensure proper medical care.

Imagine the increase in crime that would occur if poor people are deprived of access to basic human services in the greatest nation on earth.

Imagine the vast sums of money wasted fighting the poor instead of helping them.

It really doesn't matter to me which side of the border these people are on, I just don't have the stomach for waging war on the poor and if that is unAmerican then so be it.
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Great post, Bea. I think so too, but you said it better than I ever could have.
 
When it gets right down to it, there are two kinds of Americans. Those who believe in the law and those who support unlimited numbers of illegal aliens.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I don't see temporary benefits as an expense as much I see it as an investment in people and our future as a nation.

I would rather see my tax dollars go towards feeding educating and providing healthcare to folks, until they get on their feet, than live with the consequences of not providing such basic human services.

Imagine the loss of our own personal freedom if we have to produce proof of citizenship each time we have a problem. How many people legal and illegal would have to die on the side of the road because they cannot produce proof of citizenship papers to ensure proper medical care.

Imagine the increase in crime that would occur if poor people are deprived of access to basic human services in the greatest nation on earth.

Imagine the vast sums of money wasted fighting the poor instead of helping them.

It really doesn't matter to me which side of the border these people are on, I just don't have the stomach for waging war on the poor and if that is unAmerican then so be it.
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I applaud your humanity.
 
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