The needy; the homeless? and the forgotten?

[ray188]

Unfortunately, the street populace is too great for places such as SA to help more than a few escape the environment.

But do you not see how merely "giving a sandwich" only setting the person up for begging for the next sandwich? It is not a solution, it is continuing the dependency. The SA may only be able to help a few - but they help the few out of the circumstances.

 

[Sunny]

I'm not a churchgoer, but I remember on one occasion going to a New Year's Day concert of classical music - "New Year's in Vienna" - at the opera house in Seattle. My husband and I got a little dressed up,
figuring if not then, when? Most of the audience were in t-shirts and jeans. (Don't know about flip flops, I didn't notice their feet.)

 

[applecruncher]

As rgp says, it there was a god, I doubt if he'd care.

God probably wouldn't care whether people brush their teeth, take a shower, or wear clean underwear.

If some people - who have the means - are comfortable going thru life that way, well, more power to them. :shrug:

 

[Gary O']

I'm not a churchgoer, but I remember on one occasion going to a New Year's Day concert of classical music - "New Year's in Vienna" - at the opera house in Seattle. My husband and I got a little dressed up,
figuring if not then, when? Most of the audience were in t-shirts and jeans. (Don't know about flip flops, I didn't notice their feet.)

Portland OR is like that
We went to see Eartha Kitt at the Arlene Schnitzer concert hall
About as fancy as Portland Oregon gets
Folks dressed in rags to tuxes and gowns

I just wanted to see inside the place after the theater renovation

But, Eartha…what a performer…even in her eighties
She passed away shortly after that

 

[rgp]

Absolutely. We are entitled to our dignity whether or not we live on the street.

Entitled ?....No...dignity/respect must be earned. Display either...it will likely be returned. If one has no self respect/dignity ? that is their first step down hill.

 

[rgp]

This topic [homelessness] is the topic on talk radio just now. One of the local shelter operators was just saying, the reason so many of them will not come to the shelters is because they are required to do without their drugs, alcohol, & tobacco. And....many of the shelters require they attend religious service each day. And the 'homeless' want none of it.

Those very reasons are exactly why they are homeless , and living on the street.....it is their choice. If they choose that life ?....Why should I care? Shouldn't we all be permitted to live as we choose? Within our laws of course.

 

[Sunny]

Those very reasons are exactly why they are homeless , and living on the street.....it is their choice.

Huh? Their refusal to attend mandatory religious services is the reason they are homeless?

And their addiction to tobacco? Just listen to what you are saying, rpg.

(With the drugs and alcohol, you may have a point. You should have stopped there.)

 

[rgp]

Huh? Their refusal to attend mandatory religious services is the reason they are homeless?

And their addiction to tobacco? Just listen to what you are saying, rpg.

(With the drugs and alcohol, you may have a point. You should have stopped there.)

How's that ?

They are homeless due to their choices...period. If they choose to not give up tobacco, and the shelter does not permit tobacco...then they are without shelter as well.. Still their choice...period.

Same with the religious service.

 

[Sunny]

That just gives the reason they are not staying at that particular shelter. It is not the "reason why they are homeless" in the first place. How could anyone be homeless because they are
addicted to tobacco?

 

[rgp]

That just gives the reason they are not staying at that particular shelter. It is not the "reason why they are homeless" in the first place. How could anyone be homeless because they are
addicted to tobacco?

OK.....one more time.....I never said they were homeless because they were addicted to tobacco.....I said they were homeless due to their choices.....they are also without shelter due to their addiction to tobacco & alcohol and their refusing religious service....which is their choice.

 

[Shalimar]

This topic [homelessness] is the topic on talk radio just now. One of the local shelter operators was just saying, the reason so many of them will not come to the shelters is because they are required to do without their drugs, alcohol, & tobacco. And....many of the shelters require they attend religious service each day. And the 'homeless' want none of it.

Those very reasons are exactly why they are homeless , and living on the street.....it is their choice. If they choose that life ?....Why should I care? Shouldn't we all be permitted to live as we choose? Within our laws of course.

Wow. Many of us were/are not homeless by choice. Regardless of what mandate certain shelters have, the bottom line is, there are far fewer shelters than there are homeless. As for why you should care, what is the cost of compassion? Many

homeless are mentally ill, and unable to make effective choices about anything. A large number of homeless are vets. They protected our countries, came back shattered in mind and body, to our great shame, we have failed them.

 

[Sunny]

rpg, not to run this into the ground, but...

Those very reasons are exactly why they are homeless , and living on the street.....it is their choice.

Those were your own words. Your "new version" of what you said, of course, makes more sense, and I'm glad you changed it to "due to their choices" and dropped the "very reasons" part of it.
They might be denied a place in the shelter for those reasons, but that's very different from saying that's why they are homeless in the first place.

Or maybe, you really do believe that ALL the people who are homeless in this world are in that predicament because of their own stupid, lazy, irresponsible, poor choices? Really? Never due to circumstances beyond their control? Never due to war, general poverty where they live, illness, crime, uncaring local governments, insufficient social agencies, selfish relatives, no affordable housing?
(And yes, of course, sometimes poor choices.) It would take incredible cruelty and arrogance to believe such a thing.

 

[ray188]

Wow. Many of us were/are not homeless by choice. Regardless of what mandate certain shelters have, the bottom line is, there are far fewer shelters than there are homeless. As for why you should care, what is the cost of compassion? Many

homeless are mentally ill, and unable to make effective choices about anything. A large number of homeless are vets. They protected our countries, came back shattered in mind and body, to our great shame, we have failed them.

Those with mental issues should be confined in appropriate places. But the bottom line is that giving a person a sandwich does no more than set him up to beg for his next meal. Better solutions are needed. And by that I do not mean better solutions to assure that next sandwich - I mean solutions to assist the individual to be self-sufficient.

When discussing illegal immigration, the phrase "work Americans won't do" often comes up. Just imagine what combining the "work Americans won't do" thought process with the "how do we help the homeless" thought process might accomplish.

 

[JFBev]

The good thing:
In my town, three or four times a year a local grocery store puts together bags of nonperishable items priced at $10/bag, and invites customers to take one and pay for it at the checkout when through shopping. I buy one of those each time they're available when I'm in the store. The cashiers take the bag and add it to the -- usually very large -- stack of them which will be distributed to the local food bank.

And the dark side:
A friend works in that food bank, and expressed sadness when someone (home care or cleaning employee) came in to receive free goods which ended up to be for their wealthy employer. Not kidding. Sigh.

One more:
I take nothing more than baby aspirin and not very often. But as far as addictions go, I have noticed that not a few of my acquaintances and neighbors (in nice, clean, insured circumstances) are allowed the very same pain killers as those that are being distributed on the street by dealers, according to media reports.
Who's called "addicted" ?

 

[Shalimar]

The good thing:
In my town, three or four times a year a local grocery store puts together bags of nonperishable items priced at $10/bag, and invites customers to take one and pay for it at the checkout when through shopping. I buy one of those each time they're available when I'm in the store. The cashiers take the bag and add it to the -- usually very large -- stack of them which will be distributed to the local food bank.

And the dark side:
A friend works in that food bank, and expressed sadness when someone (home care or cleaning employee) came in to receive free goods which ended up to be for their wealthy employer. Not kidding. Sigh.

One more:
I take nothing more than baby aspirin and not very often. But as far as addictions go, I have noticed that not a few of my acquaintances and neighbors (in nice, clean, insured circumstances) are allowed the very same pain killers as those that are being distributed on the street by dealers, according to media reports.
Who's called "addicted" ?

I think many people would be surprised at the number of medical professionals who have a serious drug habit.

 

[rgp]

rpg, not to run this into the ground, but...



Those were your own words. Your "new version" of what you said, of course, makes more sense, and I'm glad you changed it to "due to their choices" and dropped the "very reasons" part of it.
They might be denied a place in the shelter for those reasons, but that's very different from saying that's why they are homeless in the first place.

Or maybe, you really do believe that ALL the people who are homeless in this world are in that predicament because of their own stupid, lazy, irresponsible, poor choices? Really? Never due to circumstances beyond their control? Never due to war, general poverty where they live, illness, crime, uncaring local governments, insufficient social agencies, selfish relatives, no affordable housing?
(And yes, of course, sometimes poor choices.) It would take incredible cruelty and arrogance to believe such a thing.

OK, I'll put it back in....."due to their choices" and dropped the "very reasons" part of it.....

It is the exact reason they are homeless....They made choices that put them on the street...then made choices that cost them shelter....

I never dismissed any & all other possible reasons..I know they exsist..but the man on the the radio , runs the shelter. He deals with them each & every day. IMO he knows them much better than you &/or I . And his position is that most of them are on the street simply because they choose not to comply with what we refer to as normal life, and take responsibility for themselves.

So yes, I stand by what I said.

 

[Shalimar]

OK, I'll put it back in....."due to their choices" and dropped the "very reasons" part of it.....

It is the exact reason they are homeless....They made choices that put them on the street...then made choices that cost them shelter....

I never dismissed any & all other possible reasons..I know they exsist..but the man on the the radio , runs the shelter. He deals with them each & every day. IMO he knows them much better than you &/or I . And his position is that most of them are on the street simply because they choose not to comply with what we refer to as normal life, and take responsibility for themselves.

So yes, I stand by what I said.

Wow. . Our Canadian mental health professionals and shelter managers have a very different view than the man on the radio. I have interfaced with many homeless over the years, professionally, and through volunteering at various soup kitchens, shelters. Currently, I provide pro bono counseling at shelters here, and in two nearby shelters. I am also involved in various outreach programs. My experience is in direct opposition to the man you mentioned. When I have engaged with American colleagues, their views mirrored my own. I think said shelter manager is an anomaly, and the wrong man for the job.

 

[rgp]

Wow. . Our Canadian mental health professionals and shelter managers have a very different view than the man on the radio. I have interfaced with many homeless over the years, professionally, and through volunteering at various soup kitchens, shelters. Currently, I provide pro bono counseling at shelters here, and in two nearby shelters. I am also involved in various outreach programs. My experience is in direct opposition to the man you mentioned. When I have engaged with American colleagues, their views mirrored my own. I think said shelter manager is an anomaly, and the wrong man for the job.

Well, you have a right to your opinion....I think he was just being honest....and most do not want to hear honest. They IMO want to hear what keeps the program(s) going .....

 

[rgp]

We have two homeless right here in this little village....live on the river bank....they came right out & said that they do not any help....with strings attached. One is said to even have money in the bank. Helps the other guy out on occasion. Since they are both Vietnam Vets, & on American Legion property.....no one is pushing them off. They are living the life they choose....

 

[GeorgiaXplant]

We have two homeless right here in this little village....live on the river bank....they came right out & said that they do not any help....with strings attached. One is said to even have money in the bank. Helps the other guy out on occasion. Since they are both Vietnam Vets, & on American Legion property.....no one is pushing them off. They are living the life they choose....

All greyhounds are dogs. Therefore, all dogs are greyhounds. At least the one I saw was.

"One is said to even have money in the bank." Mmhmm. A monthly deposit of his VA disability maybe...if true. And, of course, you know it's true because it's been "said."

Choose? Many homeless won't go to shelters because shelters can be even more dangerous than sleeping rough. A shelter is often a place where every small thing they own gets stolen from them by others in the shelter.

 

[Shalimar]

All greyhounds are dogs. Therefore, all dogs are greyhounds. At least the one I saw was.

"One is said to even have money in the bank." Mmhmm. A monthly deposit of his VA disability maybe...if true. And, of course, you know it's true because it's been "said."

Choose? Many homeless won't go to shelters because shelters can be even more dangerous than sleeping rough. A shelter is often a place where every small thing they own gets stolen from them by others in the shelter.

Many are beaten also.

 

[moviequeen1]

I think many people would be surprised at the number of medical professionals who have a serious drug habit.

Hi Shalimar,I'm not surprised by your comment, I use to work at a local hospital as a pharmacy tech for 27 yrs. There were a couple employees I knew who had drug problems, both were fired. One was a well liked nurse who was finally caught red handed with a drug intended for a patient who never got it and complained.The local drug authorities came to our dept,looking at our sheets{yrs before the hospital went to computerized machines} to find the discrepancies whenever the nurse gave out the drug to this patient. The other employee was anestheoigist who had easy access to the drugs. Sue

 

[Sunny]

I said they were homeless due to their choices.....they are also without shelter due to their addiction to tobacco & alcohol and their refusing religious service....which is their choice.

This convoluted logic is making my head spin. So, that means that if someone is down and out, starving, homeless, etc. and "chooses" not to stay at a shelter where they are required to be, say, a sex slave, or the shelter is incubating some deadly virus, that proves that they are out on the street by choice?

For people in dire circumstances, "choice" plays a very small role in their lives. In fact, the lack of choice might be a good definition of poverty; when it's extreme enough, it whittles down to only one choice: to starve or not to starve.

Down through history, a certain segment of the population has always "chosen" to turn their backs on human suffering, justifying it by pointing out the character flaws of the sufferers. Dickens is full of that way of thinking, and it probably goes back to pre-biblical times. People won't follow the religion I have selected for them? They are weak enough to have addictions? Good, let them suffer, they have chosen the consequences of their iniquity.

 

[rgp]

Many are beaten also.

By who?.....Other homeless no doubt. These folks are not the cream of the crop...so do we feed & house the beaters as well, or just the beaten?

Do you really think that they 'weaker' ones do not get beaten on the street as well?

 

[rgp]

This convoluted logic is making my head spin. So, that means that if someone is down and out, starving, homeless, etc. and "chooses" not to stay at a shelter where they are required to be, say, a sex slave, or the shelter is incubating some deadly virus, that proves that they are out on the street by choice?

For people in dire circumstances, "choice" plays a very small role in their lives. In fact, the lack of choice might be a good definition of poverty; when it's extreme enough, it whittles down to only one choice: to starve or not to starve.

Down through history, a certain segment of the population has always "chosen" to turn their backs on human suffering, justifying it by pointing out the character flaws of the sufferers. Dickens is full of that way of thinking, and it probably goes back to pre-biblical times. People won't follow the religion I have selected for them? They are weak enough to have addictions? Good, let them suffer, they have chosen the consequences of their iniquity.

Well since you've decided to go the insult direction...Here's mine....Drop your asinine approach and open you eyes.