Homelessness - are any communities finding supportive solutions?

[StarSong]

To begin with, I'm not looking to start a contentious political or religious discussion here, though I recognize political and religious components may enter into some of the solutions This is not intended to become a blame-game, nor to pinpoint fault. Rather it's a question about how first world countries can address the problem that is starting to overwhelm communities as increasing numbers of people tip into homelessness.

During my past year's travels through NY, NJ, CA, OR, AZ, NM, and TX I've seen large numbers of homeless people of all ages in every state and every community. Some are employable but fell into that proverbial "two paychecks away from being on the streets" financial category, and they tragically lost those two paychecks. Along with their jobs and their homes they lost their bases of operation, so to speak. Without a permanent address, a shower, and enough money to provide themselves transportation to and fro, holding down a job is all but impossible. Pulling mentally ill or substance abusers onto a productive path is an even more protracted, complex issue.

Still - the answer can't be to mostly ignore them, if for no better reason than it quite demonstrably hasn't worked well so far.

My sincere question: Is anybody on this forum living in a country, state, or community where homelessness is being addressed and ameliorated somewhat? If so, how is that being accomplished?

I hope that the mods are OK with this thread. If they see fit to delete it, I will certainly understand.

 

[rgp]

StarSong

You had to notice that this is being discussed under current issues?

OK, How do they become homeless ? You say two paychecks then, they're done. How did they get that way? Usually IMO through their own doing...choices / bad choices.

We , as a society cannot correct / make up for, every bad choice someone makes.

If they are mentally ill? they need to be in the appropriate hospital . But some genius a while back decided that those were somehow more cruel, & costly to tax payers, than putting them out on the street.

OK, I asked it of another member, so I will you as well. What's your solution?

 

[rgp]

StarSong asked...

"My sincere question: Is anybody on this forum living in a country, state, or community where homelessness is being addressed and ameliorated somewhat? If so, how is that being accomplished? "


Just what should a county , city, state do with them?

Cincinnati just ordered a group of them to vacate a location. So some homeless advocate gets together with them, and they draw up / draft a list of demands that fills they're needs!! EXCUSE me? They do not contribute, earn an income, pay no tax, pay no rent , & panhandle for money.........And they are making demands on the city?!?! Basically on the tax payers that are the city ?!?!

 

[StarSong]

StarSong

You had to notice that this is being discussed under current issues?

OK, How do they become homeless ? You say two paychecks then, they're done. How did they get that way? Usually IMO through their own doing...choices / bad choices.

We , as a society cannot correct / make up for, every bad choice someone makes.

If they are mentally ill? they need to be in the appropriate hospital . But some genius a while back decided that those were somehow more cruel, & costly to tax payers, than putting them out on the street.

OK, I asked it of another member, so I will you as well. What's your solution?

I did notice that a thread was dipping into this territory but thought it worthy of its own thread.

If I had a solution I would state it. I feel helpless, vaguely guilty, and deeply conflicted when seeing someone with a homeless sign or someone asks me for money. Would my few dollars be a negative - continuing a drug habit, thus delaying that person from getting treatment? Or would it be a positive - helping prop up a fellow human for another meal as he/she searches out a way to get off the streets?

 

[Aunt Bea]

IMO homelessness is the visible end result of all sorts of problems and cannot of itself be solved. We need to get better at seeing the signs and providing help to people before the problems in their lives result in homelessness.

In my city, we have shelters with various rules and one with no rules that is considered the absolute end of the line for the hardcore homeless. We have groups that are renovating apartments for the homeless and also a couple of groups that are building tiny homes for them on vacant lots. Frankly, the apartments and the tiny homes are not doing too well. The people that have been referred to them have enough other issues that prevent them from taking care of themselves and their surroundings that the new homes become rundown rather quickly.

I think that it is good to have help available to the homeless and when they are ready to use that help constructively they will find a solution that works for them individually. For some of the very young it may mean settling into a job, education, etc... For some of the oldtimers, it may mean transitioning to three hots and a cot at local old folks homes. Some will simply die cold and alone on a park bench or under a bridge.

When it comes to helping others I think that we should all do what we feel comfortable with and if we can't in good conscience provide the help we should at least do no harm to those in need.

 

[rgp]

IMO homelessness is the visible end result of all sorts of problems and cannot of itself be solved. We need to get better at seeing the signs and providing help to people before the problems in their lives result in homelessness.

In my city, we have shelters with various rules and one with no rules that is considered the absolute end of the line for the hardcore homeless. We have groups that are renovating apartments for the homeless and also a couple of groups that are building tiny homes for them on vacant lots. Frankly, the apartments and the tiny homes are not doing too well. The people that have been referred to them have enough other issues that prevent them from taking care of themselves and their surroundings that the new homes become rundown rather quickly.

I think that it is good to have help available to the homeless and when they are ready to use that help constructively they will find a solution that works for them individually. For some of the very young it may mean settling into a job, education, etc... For some of the oldtimers, it may mean transitioning to three hots and a cot at local old folks homes. Some will simply die cold and alone on a park bench or under a bridge.

When it comes to helping others I think that we should all do what we feel comfortable with and if we can't in good conscience provide the help we should at least do no harm to those in need.

I think your last two sentences are the only true answers.

And BTW I believe you stated them very well.

 

[rgp]

I did notice that a thread was dipping into this territory but thought it worthy of its own thread.

If I had a solution I would state it. I feel helpless, vaguely guilty, and deeply conflicted when seeing someone with a homeless sign or someone asks me for money. Would my few dollars be a negative - continuing a drug habit, thus delaying that person from getting treatment? Or would it be a positive - helping prop up a fellow human for another meal as he/she searches out a way to get off the streets?

This is one of those questions, that unfortunately can only be answered with yet another question.....what do we do? As there are no absolutes .

Read Aunt Bea's post #5 IMO honest & well said.

 

[StarSong]

IMO homelessness is the visible end result of all sorts of problems and cannot of itself be solved. We need to get better at seeing the signs and providing help to people before the problems in their lives result in homelessness.

In my city, we have shelters with various rules and one with no rules that is considered the absolute end of the line for the hardcore homeless. We have groups that are renovating apartments for the homeless and also a couple of groups that are building tiny homes for them on vacant lots. Frankly, the apartments and the tiny homes are not doing too well. The people that have been referred to them have enough other issues that prevent them from taking care of themselves and their surroundings that the new homes become rundown rather quickly.

I think that it is good to have help available to the homeless and when they are ready to use that help constructively they will find a solution that works for them individually. For some of the very young it may mean settling into a job, education, etc... For some of the oldtimers, it may mean transitioning to three hots and a cot at local old folks homes. Some will simply die cold and alone on a park bench or under a bridge.

When it comes to helping others I think that we should all do what we feel comfortable with and if we can't in good conscience provide the help we should at least do no harm to those in need.

I agree with much of what you said, Aunt Bea, but the sheer number of homeless is so dispiriting. Homeless and beggars populate every city and town, becoming a sad cultural change and "new normal" for Americans. How did this become acceptable?

I vividly remember the earliest incarnations of "Homeless Vet, Please Help" or "Will Work for Food" cardboard signs. That was in the 1980s. They were shocking at first, but soon became part of the landscape. Yes, there were always homeless and beggars on skid row - vagrants or "forgotten men" - but they weren't begging at every freeway offramp or in front of suburban supermarkets. The number of homeless in the US and other first world countries continues to grow at an alarming pace.

Where will this end - and how? Will there be an economic uprising? A war between the haves and the have-nots? A forced redistribution of wealth? Stranger things have happened.

As the Chinese proverb states, if we don't change our direction we are likely to end up where we are headed.
I personally don't know what that change should or could be. I have far more questions than answers. The only thing I know for sure is that we are not on a good pathway now.

 

[Aunt Bea]

I agree that we are not on a good path.

I try to keep in mind that the homeless population is always changing and that most people are only homeless for short periods of time.

I also try to look at how our societies attitude toward things has changed. Years ago people worked harder to conceal their need for assistance of any kind, today it seems to be a more mainstream concept to get whatever public assistance is available.

I see this more modern version of the homeless in the parking lot of our local Walmart Supercenter. It amazes me how many working poor spend the night sleeping in their vehicles outside of the Walmart. It also appears that Walmart and these folks have a symbiotic relationship where the homeless people use Walmart's facilities in exchange for a steady stream of small purchases.

I see another version of very young people in my community that use the local soup kitchens on a regular basis. These kids appear mainstream in every way yet they line up with the more stereotypical homeless folks waiting for the doors of the soup kitchen to open. I assume that many of these kids couch surf or live in their cars, shower and keep a change of clothes in a locker at the local university or health club, etc...

This newer brand of homeless people reminds me of the Hippie movement from my own youth. I honestly believe that for many of the new homeless it is a brief and unfortunate phase of life that reflects a shift in our values/priorities and is very different from the more traditional homeless folks with mental health issues, substance abuse problems, etc...

I don't have any real answers and it does bother me but all I can do is muddle along and help when and where I feel comfortable.

 

[Shalimar]

I agree that we are not on a good path.

I try to keep in mind that the homeless population is always changing and that most people are only homeless for short periods of time.

I also try to look at how our societies attitude toward things has changed. Years ago people worked harder to conceal their need for assistance of any kind, today it seems to be a more mainstream concept to get whatever public assistance is available.

I see this more modern version of the homeless in the parking lot of our local Walmart Supercenter. It amazes me how many working poor spend the night sleeping in their vehicles outside of the Walmart. It also appears that Walmart and these folks have a symbiotic relationship where the homeless people use Walmart's facilities in exchange for a steady stream of small purchases.

I see another version of very young people in my community that use the local soup kitchens on a regular basis. These kids appear mainstream in every way yet they line up with the more stereotypical homeless folks waiting for the doors of the soup kitchen to open. I assume that many of these kids couch surf or live in their cars, shower and keep a change of clothes in a locker at the local university or health club, etc...

This newer brand of homeless people reminds me of the Hippie movement from my own youth. I honestly believe that for many of the new homeless it is a brief and unfortunate phase of life that reflects a shift in our values/priorities and is very different from the more traditional homeless folks with mental health issues, substance abuse problems, etc...

I don't have any real answers and it does bother me but all I can do is muddle along and help when and where I feel comfortable.

Post of the week! I applaud the clarity of your response. May I use it in one of my groups at work?

 

[rgp]

Well this Cincinnati's latest approach to it.....

For now, they must relocate from the high traffic area they are in. When the new location is found, sanitation facilities will be provided. Until a short term solution can be found...what that may be/will be, is anyone's guess? During the news conference it was not disclosed. Then they, the city & whom ever ? will work on a long term solution.

Now just what that will be is going to be interesting to learn? Again....buy them all houses? Again, is not our problem , to solve their problems....

The people that work in the area where they are now....want it cleaned up. These are the people that pay for it through taxes , they want the area to be business attractive . They are sick & tired of being panhandled to & from their offices, etc. I agree with them.

One guy interviewed even said, he offered more than once to buy one or two of them along the way, a meal. They said they only needed money.....yeah for drugs & or booze.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

StarSong

You had to notice that this is being discussed under current issues?

OK, How do they become homeless ? You say two paychecks then, they're done. How did they get that way? Usually IMO through their own doing...choices / bad choices.

We , as a society cannot correct / make up for, every bad choice someone makes.

If they are mentally ill? they need to be in the appropriate hospital . But some genius a while back decided that those were somehow more cruel, & costly to tax payers, than putting them out on the street.

OK, I asked it of another member, so I will you as well. What's your solution?

Brrrrnt...WRONG! Well partially anyway. In some cases what you say is true but in some cases nothing can be further from the truth. I've read about people who were actually wealthy and wound up living in tent cities. They'd done everything right but a catastrophic medical issue drained all their funds or an unexpected lay off of a middle aged man who had a good salary led him to eventually have to move in with his father. There are people who worked hard all their lives but are not able to save either due to the cost of living where they are or not save enough to stave off homelessness at some point. You must not know very much about how the mentally ill are taken care of (or more appropriately...not taken care of). One can only stay in an institution for a limited amount of time unless they are as the expression goes "batsh*t crazy"...I mean really gone. And some are only kept for a couple of weeks. Certainly not long enough to treat them properly and solve their mental issues. Some need, but don't have people to advocate for them. The shelters in our area have limited capacity thus what could be long wait times.

And what about the multitude of people who have seen their homes obliterated by natural disasters? With the exception of a few who may be wealthy, most homeowners have sunk their money into their homes, are in debt and were not expecting to have to start all over again. If they don't have relatives willing to take them in, they may wind up in the streets. There are people who lost their homes here in Jersey during Superstorm Sandy in 2012 who still have not gotten their insurance payments nor back into their homes. They may not be homeless but they well could have been.
StarSong...to answer your question. I don't know what's being done about homelessness in our city. Homelessness seems to be something that seems to be swept under the run or that elicits responses that are definitely not beneficial to those who are homeless.

 

[Sunny]

I don't understand why there are two different threads addressing this same issue. But since there are, and rgp is repeating his idea that people are homeless because of the "choices" they have made, I thought I'd copy part of my answer:

For people in dire circumstances, "choice" plays a very small role in their lives. In fact, the lack of choice might be a good definition of poverty; when it's extreme enough, it whittles down to only one choice: to starve or not to starve.

 

[rgp]

I don't understand why there are two different threads addressing this same issue. But since there are, and rgp is repeating his idea that people are homeless because of the "choices" they have made, I thought I'd copy part of my answer:

For people in dire circumstances, "choice" plays a very small role in their lives. In fact, the lack of choice might be a good definition of poverty; when it's extreme enough, it whittles down to only one choice: to starve or not to starve.

Not sure why the two threads either?...but here they are...and my answer in both is the same because it is the only answer. Most.... most... of the folks living on the street are doing so for two main reasons. One they made some bad choices in the past & are continuing to do so. And two, it is what they choose to do, because doing so requires no responsibility.

As for....

it whittles down to only one choice: to starve or not to starve.

If one is truly starving, and another offers to buy them a meal, and they refuse saying that they would rather have the money....the person is not starving....period.

 

[Gary O']

Some are employable but fell into that proverbial "two paychecks away from being on the streets" financial category, and they tragically lost those two paychecks. Along with their jobs and their homes they lost their bases of operation, so to speak. Without a permanent address, a shower, and enough money to provide themselves transportation to and fro, holding down a job is all but impossible. Pulling mentally ill or substance abusers onto a productive path is an even more protracted, complex issue.

Still - the answer can't be to mostly ignore them, if for no better reason than it quite demonstrably hasn't worked well so far.

My sincere question: Is anybody on this forum living in a country, state, or community where homelessness is being addressed and ameliorated somewhat? If so, how is that being accomplished?

In the last few years, there have been hobo camps in some urban areas of Portland OR
Think Hooverville

They are somewhat large, and regulated, no this, no that
They’re still a rough way to go, but do provide hot meals and a flop
And a meager attempt at giving folks a way to seek employment

City folks pretty much hate ‘em
City fathers wring their hands
Some governmental bodies try to work with ‘em

These places could be an answer, but need to be improved
Seems the US is coming in to maybe a second world situation

Getting an apartment is nuts
First, last, deposit; thousands of dollars
Then what they ask for rent
Don’t know how folks do it

Safe camps could be a way

They would provide an address, of which is key in getting a job, assistance, or anything in the name of a helping hand...up

 

[rgp]

In the last few years, there have been hobo camps in some urban areas of Portland OR
Think Hooverville

They are somewhat large, and regulated, no this, no that
They’re still a rough way to go, but do provide hot meals and a flop
And a meager attempt at giving folks a way to seek employment

City folks pretty much hate ‘em
City fathers wring their hands
Some governmental bodies try to work with ‘em

These places could be an answer, but need to be improved
Seems the US is coming in to maybe a second world situation

Getting an apartment is nuts
First, last, deposit; thousands of dollars
Then what they ask for rent
Don’t know how folks do it

Safe camps could be a way

They would provide an address, of which is key in getting a job, assistance, or anything in the name of a helping hand...up

I am concerned about the direction the country is headed...If I were younger , I'd be even more concerned. But I do believe this false sense of entitlement is part of the problem.

 

[Gary O']

I am concerned about the direction the country is headed...If I were younger , I'd be even more concerned. But I do believe this false sense of entitlement is part of the problem.

no argument

something I writ here about a year ago;


' .....because I deserve to be happy'

I just read a lengthy paragraph of a young lady seemingly on the edge.
It’s a wonder more of today’s generation isn’t ODing on drugs if they all think this way.....

I don’t preach. Not my place.
But, I’ve been around awile, and here’s what I know;
Happiness is attained by contentment
Contentment is attained by satisfaction
Satisfaction is attained by hard work...a job well done.

That’s all

Simple as that

There are no epiphanical moments where a fairy poings you with her wand and everthing is all better

There is no deserving

There is earning

Nothing else

I’ve had to learn this the hard way, by default actually.
Never checked my happiness gauge, just looked for fun.
Had fun.
No regrets.
But fun by itself becomes quite empty.
Empty as a cavernous, bottomless ever hungry void.

Want ‘Happy’?

It’s yours

For the earning

 

[Shalimar]

In the last few years, there have been hobo camps in some urban areas of Portland OR
Think Hooverville

They are somewhat large, and regulated, no this, no that
They’re still a rough way to go, but do provide hot meals and a flop
And a meager attempt at giving folks a way to seek employment

City folks pretty much hate ‘em
City fathers wring their hands
Some governmental bodies try to work with ‘em

These places could be an answer, but need to be improved
Seems the US is coming in to maybe a second world situation

Getting an apartment is nuts
First, last, deposit; thousands of dollars
Then what they ask for rent
Don’t know how folks do it

Safe camps could be a way

They would provide an address, of which is key in getting a job, assistance, or anything in the name of a helping hand...up

What about the women, and or kids?

 

[Gary O']

What about the women, and or kids?

....'Safe camps could be a way'


it's involved
I've been close to getting too involved
governing bodies tend to ignore logic and hold more to laws impertinent to the dire situation
they tend to ignore the basic 'gotta eat' 'gotta be somewhere' reality
of which precludes things like going to school...for awhile

very frustrating

 

[StarSong]

In the last few years, there have been hobo camps in some urban areas of Portland OR
Think Hooverville

They are somewhat large, and regulated, no this, no that
They’re still a rough way to go, but do provide hot meals and a flop
And a meager attempt at giving folks a way to seek employment

City folks pretty much hate ‘em
City fathers wring their hands
Some governmental bodies try to work with ‘em

These places could be an answer, but need to be improved
Seems the US is coming in to maybe a second world situation

Getting an apartment is nuts
First, last, deposit; thousands of dollars
Then what they ask for rent
Don’t know how folks do it

Safe camps could be a way

They would provide an address, of which is key in getting a job, assistance, or anything in the name of a helping hand...up

To answer why a second thread, I was specifically asking about solutions and strategies that towns, states or countries may have employed to work this problem.

Thanks for your response, Gary. When traveling through AZ and NM I saw a lot of BLM (Bureau of Land Management) land where people are permitted to camp for free. That led me to wonder if anyplace had started Hooverville type towns. My parents were children during the Great Depression and spoke a lot about Hoovervilles and the WPA (Works Progress Administration) programs that helped put American unemployed back to work and did so with dignity.

 

[Gary O']

To answer why a second thread, I was specifically asking about solutions and strategies that towns, states or countries may have employed to work this problem.

Thanks for your response, Gary. When traveling through AZ and NM I saw a lot of BLM (Bureau of Land Management) land where people are permitted to camp for free. That led me to wonder if anyplace had started Hooverville type towns. My parents were children during the Great Depression and spoke a lot about Hoovervilles and the WPA (Works Progress Administration) programs that helped put American unemployed back to work and did so with dignity.

Twenty or so years ago I got interested is an abandoned air base that turned into a Hooverville
seemed plausible to some situations
only no work opportunities

same with BLM land...too far away
requires a bus, a driver, gas, stuff not affordable