11/4/2023 pro-Palestinian protests around the world

What makes me both sad and angry is folks on this site and others who try to rationalize/explain/defend the Hamas/Palestinian atrocities of 10/7. Why would you want to side with terrorists who behead babies and ruthlessly murder hundreds of people at a music concert?

My hope and prayer is that the Israelis can resist the ill-advised pressures for a "pause", which will only give Hamas time to rebuild and attack again.
 

To be honest, I've thought about the religion thing and wondered a "pipe dream" ... what if everyone were the same religion ?? ... would there still be world conflicts ?? And I believe there would still be wars and violence. Some countries are ruled by one man that wants all the power and wants to expand it or keep it private with no outside interference and maintain total government control. Some countries don't recognize religion at all ... or seek to destroy all religions within their country. And some countries just don't like other countries for whatever reason.

Men will fight men over geographic anomalies if not religion. "There will always be wars and rumors of wars" ... but in some cases, I think life might be a little different and maybe even a little better without the religion factor.

Religion in North Korea:
Officially, North Korea is an atheist state, although its constitution guarantees free exercise of religion, provided that religious practice does not introduce foreign forces, harm the state, or harm the existing social order. Based on estimates from the late 1990s and the 2000s, North Korea is mostly irreligious, with the main religions being Shamanism and Chondoism.
~~~ Religion in North Korea

Religion in China:
The People's Republic of China is officially an atheist state, but the government formally recognizes five religions: Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism are recognized separately), and Islam. In the early 21st century, there has been increasing official recognition of Confucianism and Chinese folk religion as part of China's cultural heritage.
~~~ Religion in China

Religion in the Soviet Union:
Religion in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) was dominated by the fact that it became the first state to have as one objective of its official ideology the elimination of existing religion, and the prevention of future implanting of religious belief, with the goal of establishing state atheism (gosateizm).

etc etc ... and so on and so on
 

%E2%80%98Kill-the-Babies-Anti-Israel-Hecklers-Taunt-Jews-at-Stroller-Protest.jpg


‘Kill the Babies!’ Anti-Israel Hecklers Taunt Jews at Stroller Protest

Hecklers shouted “kill the babies” to taunt a protest Sunday organized by Jews in Skokie, Illinois, to highlight the fact that 30 children, including babies, are being held hostage by the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas in Gaza.
Jewish community members in Skokie outside of Chicago have organized an exhibit of 30 empty strollers to raise awareness about the 30 children currently being held hostage in Gaza along with roughly 210 others.
~~~
Skokie, Illinois
 
Is it too late for America to deal with its own crisis? The goal of Islam is to rid the world of western style democracies and establish a world wide Islamic state under Islamic law. The Muslim Brotherhood has said it could take America without firing a shot by infiltrating our liberal institutions. Below is the Muslim Brotherhood’s plan for North America confiscated during an FBI search warrant relative to the prosecution of the Holy Land Foundation, an American Muslim organization that funneled $12 million to Hamas. An excerpt from the document is posted below and the full document is at the link below that. The first pages are in the original Arabic and the English translation starts on page 16.

Understanding the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America:
The Brotherhood must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.

https://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/20-an-explanatory-memorandum-on-the-general.pdf
 
Is it too late for America to deal with its own crisis? The goal of Islam is to rid the world of western style democracies and establish a world wide Islamic state under Islamic law. The Muslim Brotherhood has said it could take America without firing a shot by infiltrating our liberal institutions. Below is the Muslim Brotherhood’s plan for North America confiscated during an FBI search warrant relative to the prosecution of the Holy Land Foundation, an American Muslim organization that funneled $12 million to Hamas. An excerpt from the document is posted below and the full document is at the link below that. The first pages are in the original Arabic and the English translation starts on page 16.

Understanding the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America:
The Brotherhood must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.

https://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/20-an-explanatory-memorandum-on-the-general.pdf
The US has swung back and forth politically, from right of center to left of center, almost every presidential election year. It may be an illusion but, over the past few elections it seems we're swinging farther and farther from either side of center. That's not a good thing, imo.

If that trend continues while the US is trying to navigate it's own crises and a global one, my fear is that our society will collapse due to the consequences of being either too far left, with a blind expectation of peaceful cooperation and co-existence, or too far right, becoming something akin to a totally nationalistic police state.

And I can't decide which ending is the worst.
 
Is it too late for America to deal with its own crisis? The goal of Islam is to rid the world of western style democracies and establish a world wide Islamic state under Islamic law. The Muslim Brotherhood has said it could take America without firing a shot by infiltrating our liberal institutions. Below is the Muslim Brotherhood’s plan for North America confiscated during an FBI search warrant relative to the prosecution of the Holy Land Foundation, an American Muslim organization that funneled $12 million to Hamas. An excerpt from the document is posted below and the full document is at the link below that. The first pages are in the original Arabic and the English translation starts on page 16.

Understanding the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America:
The Brotherhood must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.

https://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/20-an-explanatory-memorandum-on-the-general.pdf

"so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions."

So, just what is God's religion ? It seems every religion that worships [their] God has a religion/is a religion.

This is why I don't believe in any of it. There are so many religions in the world, they can't all be right. There for IMO they are all wrong.
 
What makes me both sad and angry is folks on this site and others who try to rationalize/explain/defend the Hamas/Palestinian atrocities of 10/7. Why would you want to side with terrorists who behead babies and ruthlessly murder hundreds of people at a music concert?_
Yeah, it's been kind of mind boggling to hear excuses and attempts to "explain" why Oct 7 happened. It brings to mind people who say things like "he killed his wife because she wasn't a good homemaker" to justify murder... or "she was raped and murdered because of what she was wearing." There IS no excuse for evil. There is no rationalizing it away.

What those with tunnel vision (i.e. "stop the bombing before anyone else gets hurt") people fail to see is that if the "bombing stops" BOTH sides would have to want to sit down to tea and hold hands. Not gonna happen! Stop the bombing would mean "sure, come back and behead the rest of our babies and fulfill your plan to kill all Jews."

Evil exists. Can't put a bandaid on it and cross your fingers that it will go away. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Did what we saw happen at the hands of "Herr Hitler" disappear from memory in just 8 short decades? It's happening again and the world sits by and watches... AGAIN! Rose colored glasses are no longer in fashion.
 
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America has spent billions fighting only one religion since 9/11/2001. If Americans could realize that, a discussion might could get started about what to do about that religion.
Do you have ideas on ways we could eliminate a religion that has millions of believers? That seems impossible.
 
"so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions."

So, just what is God's religion ? It seems every religion that worships [their] God has a religion/is a religion.

This is why I don't believe in any of it. There are so many religions in the world, they can't all be right. There for IMO they are all wrong.
I guess everyone is aware the Jerusalem is a sacred place and is kind of the capital of three major religions. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. All the same God? It doesn't seem that way. For Judaism their God's name is Yahweh, in Islam it is Allah, and to Christianity it is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are different interpretations of God. Religious freedom is supported by most democracies.

It started with Zoroastrianism. At its core, Zoroastrianism emphasizes a never-ending battle between good and evil — a contest between the religion's God, Ahura Mazda, and an evil spirit, Ahriman. Believers have the freedom to make good or bad choices; they were exhorted by Zoroaster to think good thoughts, say good words and do good deeds.
Monotheism goes way back...about 6 centuries?
 
Yeah, it's been kind of mind boggling to hear excuses and attempts to "explain" why Oct 7 happened. It brings to mind people who say things like "he killed his wife because she wasn't a good homemaker" to explain murder... or "she was raped and murdered because of what she was wearing." There IS no excuse for evil. There is no rationalizing it away.

What those with tunnel vision (i.e. "stop the bombing before anyone else gets hurt") people fail to see is that if the "bombing stops" BOTH sides would have to want to sit down to tea and hold hands. Ain't gonna happen! Stop the bombing would mean "sure, come back and behead the rest of our babies and fulfill your plan to kill all Jews."

Evil exists. Can't put a bandaid on it and cross your fingers that it will go away. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Did what we saw happen at the hands of "Herr Hitler" disappear from memory in just 8 short decades? It's happening again and the world sits by and watches... AGAIN! Rose colored glasses are no longer in fashion.
Thank you for being very clear on how dangerous Hamas IS. I can understand how we have to be extremely diligent to not let them run free.
 
"so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions."

So, just what is God's religion ? It seems every religion that worships [their] God has a religion/is a religion.

This is why I don't believe in any of it. There are so many religions in the world, they can't all be right. There for IMO they are all wrong.
I guess everyone is aware the Jerusalem is a sacred place and is kind of the capital of three major religions. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. All the same God? It doesn't seem that way. For Judaism their God's name is Yahweh, in Islam it is Allah, and to Christianity it is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are different interpretations of God. Religious freedom is supported by most democracies.

It started with Zoroastrianism. At its core, Zoroastrianism emphasizes a never-ending battle between good and evil — a contest between the religion's God, Ahura Mazda, and an evil spirit, Ahriman. Believers have the freedom to make good or bad choices; they were exhorted by Zoroaster to think good thoughts, say good words and do good deeds.
Monotheism goes way back...about 6 centuries?
So people who can’t see a difference between Israel and Hamas can’t see a difference between Islam, Jews and Christians either. I guess that is not surprising.

Here’s a clue.

Islam is the religion that flew the planes into the World Trade Center and beheaded babies in Israel a few weeks ago. Islam is the one the protesters are defending. Islam is the one that people here on this forum are defending when they claim to be pro-’Palestinian’.

The people who did those evil deeds came from a mosque, not a synagogue and not a Christian church.
 
The protestors were not all Muslim. People with all kinds of different beliefs were protesting what they feel like the civilian casualties were too much, too many, and the bombing and killing must stop. They were not all terrorists.
There is apparently a whole lot of people who are very upset with this...that is why they are on the streets.

How can we wipe out a whole religion?
 
I will only make this one comment: Before passing judgement on any of the people involved please recognize that western (American and European) news outlets have not presented all the facts to the public going back to the post war founding of Israel. They have been heavily biased, perhaps over compensating for the history of anti-Semitism in their own countries.

Keep in mind that among the protesters are holocaust survivors, Orthodox Jews and current citizens of Isreal. Suggested source, any article or video of Dr. Gabor Mate'. A holocaust survivor who abandoned his support of Zionism after visiting the area and having learned the reality of the history from late 40s till now.

As with all such conflicts there's plenty of blame to go around, including some that should be lain on how the allies re-drew the borders of mid-eastern nations after WWII, with little regard for local history, and cultural conflicts between groups. (The Kurdish people were disadvantaged by this too).

I don't want to cross the 'no politics' lines, so i will not list the salient points i've made on other platforms, just recommend learning more before labeling good/bad guys.

You end with the recommendation to learn more though you oddly start your discussion of conflict in the region post WWII. The Ottoman Empire that preceded WWII was by no means a happy place with coups, uprisings and periods of genocide by the Arabs against Armenians and Greeks.

The Ottomans fought against the Allies in World War One and lost which led to the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire since it started WWI precariously hanging onto its rule of the area. Post WWI, the victorious Allies and the newly formed League of Nations placed the region called Palestine under British rule with the goal of the "establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people... ." And Jewish settlers had been moving into the area called Palestine since the Middle Ages.

The suggestion that the redrawing of borders post WWII caused the conflict in the area called Palestine is misleading; there have throughout recorded history only been brief respites of peace there.
 
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The protestors were not all Muslim. People with all kinds of different beliefs were protesting what they feel like the civilian casualties were too much, too many, and the bombing and killing must stop. They were not all terrorists.
There is apparently a whole lot of people who are very upset with this...that is why they are on the streets.

How can we wipe out a whole religion?
All the protesters have chosen to take the side of Hamas/Palestine. You have equated all religions as the same. I pointed out some obvious differences which you have ignored.

AND you still ignore the kidnapped captives as though they don’t exist. 30 of them are children but the HAMAS/Palestine protesters have no concern about them, only the children of terrorists matter.

The protester solution is just stop bombing to save terrorist Hamas/Palestine and forget the hostages they hold, even though the terrorists have promised to repeat Oct. 7th over and over, the protesters expect Israel to just stop and accept those threats.

No, Israel should not stop until they feel safe and have every hostage back safe and sound. It should not be the decision of people who make excuses for terrorists.
 
All the protesters have chosen to take the side of Hamas/Palestine. You have equated all religions as the same. I pointed out some obvious differences which you have ignored.

AND you still ignore the kidnapped captives as though they don’t exist. 30 of them are children but the HAMAS/Palestine protesters have no concern about them, only the children of terrorists matter.

The protester solution is just stop bombing to save terrorist Hamas/Palestine and forget the hostages they hold, even though the terrorists have promised to repeat Oct. 7th over and over, the protesters expect Israel to just stop and accept those threats.

No, Israel should not stop until they feel safe and have every hostage back safe and sound. It should not be the decision of people who make excuses for terrorists.
Please realize I am not pro-palestinian. Not me personally. It is much too complicated for me to sort out. All the OP was for is for us to understand that the anti-war protests are getting huge. That's all.
 
And that makes one wonder if they are under threat of torture or death. There's no question Hamas makes sure hatred of Israel and Jews is taught to tots and school children, and it's taught so well that these children will turn against their own parents if they express any sympathy or kindness toward Israel or Jews.

Are you saying there are those that believe they are submitting to the will of God actually believe God wants them to kill others that have the same belief but express kindness towards Israel or Jews?
 
Do you have ideas on ways we could eliminate a religion that has millions of believers? That seems impossible.
No I don’t have ideas on eliminating a religion. I do have the idea that to solve a problem you first have to define the problem. America has spent billions of dollars and lost thousands of American lives to Islamists.and watched in horror as Islamists perpetrated inhuman acts upon other countries. Yet Americans, with few exceptions, don’t see Islam as a problem. Therefore there has been no thoughtful discussion about a solution.
 
Thank you for being very clear on how dangerous Hamas IS. I can understand how we have to be extremely diligent to not let them run free.
What??????? Hamas has been running free in the United States for 40 years.

https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/the-hamas-network-in-america.pdf

Hamas supporters have long operated in the United States. Internal Hamas documents and FBI wiretaps introduced as evidence in various federal criminal cases clearly show the existence of a nationwide Hamas network engaged in fundraising, lobbying, education and propaganda dissemination dating back to the 1980s. The network formalized its existence in 1988, when it created the Islamic Palestine Committee in the US. The Committee’s goals included “increasing the financial and the moral support for Hamas,”
 
It is terrible we can't have civil discourse about religious ideas that are hypocritical within their own "Holy" book. Everyone is your brother and sister so love them...every one. Thou shall not kill. Maybe that is one way to discuss this. Find the real positive things in the Koran...and then ask why their God says to kill others? How can the two go together?
 
Are you saying there are those that believe they are submitting to the will of God actually believe God wants them to kill others that have the same belief but express kindness towards Israel or Jews?
I'm saying that, for religious reasons (or, using religion as an excuse), Hamas believes in a Jihad where all Jews die, and some Palestinians believe in peaceful co-existence with people of all faiths but they're afraid they'll be tortured or killed if they speak out against Hamas.

The Hadith is a collection of Mohammad's prophecies and teachings. In the Hadith, Mohammad says that the entire world will come under Islamic rule through a holy war...jihad, and that this is inevitable according to Allah.
 
I don't know if it's because I'm older and I seek news and information more, but I feel like I am just now getting a clear picture of this ancient, ongoing conflict. I know social media makes a difference.

The mass protesting shows that it has been simmering, waiting for this moment. Can there be a solution? Can it stop?
Diplomacy has not worked. Through history, the only way to stop an unwinable situation is to take the other side out completely.
In our modern world with all information available we see what this truly means and it's shocking and horrifying.
 


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