11/4/2023 pro-Palestinian protests around the world

hearlady said:
I don't know if it's because I'm older and I seek news and information more, but I feel like I am just now getting a clear picture of this ancient, ongoing conflict. I know social media makes a difference.

The mass protesting shows that it has been simmering, waiting for this moment. Can there be a solution? Can it stop?
Diplomacy has not worked. Through history, the only way to stop an unwinable situation is to take the other side out completely.
In our modern world with all information available we see what this truly means and it's shocking and horrifying.
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I think the mass protesting shows there's a whole lot of people hitching themselves to a wagon completely oblivious as to where it's headed.

A group of young folks held up a big ol' Pride flag to show their solidarity at a pro-Palestinian rally in London. It was taken down and shredded within minutes. Palestinians definitely do not feel any degree of solidarity with the likes of the LGBT+ community. Quite the opposite.
 

Murrmurr said:
The Hadith is a collection of Mohammad's prophecies and teachings. In the Hadith, Mohammad says that the entire world will come under Islamic rule through a holy war...jihad, and that this is inevitable according to Allah.
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I think military officers understand Islam more than American civilians. Years ago when I mused about WW3 a military officer told me it would be between 2 ideologies - namely Islam and western style democracies.
 
Murrmurr said:
I'm saying that, for religious reasons (or, using religion as an excuse), Hamas believes in a Jihad where all Jews die, and some Palestinians believe in peaceful co-existence with people of all faiths but they're afraid they'll be tortured or killed if they speak out against Hamas.

The Hadith is a collection of Mohammad's prophecies and teachings. In the Hadith, Mohammad says that the entire world will come under Islamic rule through a holy war...jihad, and that this is inevitable according to Allah.
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Thank you for making a clear easy to understand reason for what is taking place. If only the American media would make this understood maybe those demonstrating against Israel wouldn't.
 
Paco Dennis said:
Find the real positive things in the Koran...and then ask why their God says to kill others? How can the two go together?
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I've found study of Islam difficult because of running into "you have to be able to read Arabic" "you have to be able to read classical Arabic" "you have to rely on scholars" to pin down what the difficult bits of the Quran and other texts really mean. It reminds me of Christianity in the Dark Ages and think of how many died in the name of religion then and for hundreds upon hundreds of years after.
 
AnnieA said:
I've found study of Islam difficult because of running into "you have to be able to read Arabic" "you have to be able to read classical Arabic" "you have to rely on scholars" to pin down what the difficult bits of the Quran and other texts
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Several Qurans are available from different publishers. They all say essentially the same thing. One is available with English on half the page and Arabic on the other half with the translation made by a high ranking Muslim scholar. And you can see from the behavior of Jihadists what it means to them.

Most of the numerous translation discussions that go on outside the Quran aren’t worth reading. I saw an idiotic one the other day on wife beating where the Quran said use a green branch and some translated this as meaning the same slender green branch men cut up in pieces as use as a toothbrush. So it was translated (at least for westerners) that men could beat their wives with a toothbrush. Deflection and deception are the names of the game so try to discern for yourself.
 
My one and only post in this thread is: The US is not the entire world, and things that seem obvious and inevitable to most Americans, even deeply held beliefs, do not translate to the wider world. This is such a topic.
 
VaughanJB said:
My one and only post in this thread is: The US is not the entire world, and things that seem obvious and inevitable to most Americans, even deeply held beliefs, do not translate to the wider world. This is such a topic.
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Terrorism is a world problem. How everyone deals with it is the issue. Like I said earlier, the whole mess is too complex for me to understand and I don't try to. It needs to be reigned in, I think we all can agree with that.
Every country has to deal with it. It is catastrophic for those involved. Maybe mankind has too many people, and this cleansing of terrorists and their population has to happen if we are to survive an uncertain future.?
 
We were in Barcelona a week ago and there was a huge group of protesters chanting "Free Palestine". Not taking either side, but the protests are happening all over the world.
 
seadoug said:
We were in Barcelona a week ago and there was a huge group of protesters chanting "Free Palestine". Not taking either side, but the protests are happening all over the world.
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Muslim jihadists are all over the world and are always busy with indoctrination. And a couple of other important remarks have been made on here - that young people are always looking for a grand cause and many are hitching themselves to a wagon without any clue as to where it's going.
 
TabbyAnn said:
- that young people are always looking for a grand cause and many are hitching themselves to a wagon without any clue as to where it's going.
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... And some old/older people as well, I've noticed... who seem to have forgotten their history lessons. Those who don't pick up on the deja vu vibes going on as we watch history repeating at an alarming rate. Propaganda can easily lure young people in, but by 40 or 50, memory and wisdom should have kicked in. :cry:
 

Jewish man’s death at clashing protests outside LA ruled a homicide​

Law enforcement officials said late Monday that a Jewish man was killed during analtercation at dueling pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel rallies in a Los Angeles suburb the day before. The Ventura County Sheriff’s office ruled the death a homicide and said it has “not ruled out the possibility of a hate crime.”

According to a Sheriff’s Department statement, released Monday evening, Paul Kessler, 69, died from “blunt force head injury” caused by the altercation. The demonstrations were in Thousand Oaks, California, — a city about 30 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles — from which several callers had reported the incident.

“Witness accounts indicated that Kessler was involved in a physical altercation with counter-protestor(s),” the department said. “During the altercation, Kessler fell backwards and struck his head on the ground. Kessler was transported to an area hospital for advanced medical treatment” and died from his injuries the next day.

The Ventura County Medical Examiner ruled the cause of death homicide by blunt force head trauma.

The Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles said Kessler died after being “struck in the head by a megaphone wielded by a pro-Palestinian protestor.”

Jewish man's death at clashing protests outside LA ruled a homicide

Witness accounts varied.
 
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Myrtle said:

Jewish man’s death at clashing protests outside LA ruled a homicide​

Law enforcement officials said late Monday that a Jewish man was killed during analtercation at dueling pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel rallies in a Los Angeles suburb the day before. The Ventura County Sheriff’s office ruled the death a homicide and said it has “not ruled out the possibility of a hate crime.”

According to a Sheriff’s Department statement, released Monday evening, Paul Kessler, 69, died from “blunt force head injury” caused by the altercation. The demonstrations were in Thousand Oaks, California, — a city about 30 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles — from which several callers had reported the incident.

“Witness accounts indicated that Kessler was involved in a physical altercation with counter-protestor(s),” the department said. “During the altercation, Kessler fell backwards and struck his head on the ground. Kessler was transported to an area hospital for advanced medical treatment” and died from his injuries the next day.

The Ventura County Medical Examiner ruled the cause of death homicide by blunt force head trauma.

The Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles said Kessler died after being “struck in the head by a megaphone wielded by a pro-Palestinian protestor.”

Jewish man's death at clashing protests outside LA ruled a homicide

Witness accounts varied.
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Apparently struck on the head by the killer demonstrator's megaphone by one account. I guess trying to shout him down wasn't good enough.
 
Myrtle said:
The best study of Islam is watching what they do, not reading what they claim to believe. If that doesn’t make what they stand for clear to you, nothing will.
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Their behavior should provide a clue about their theology. But most Americans have been gaslighted ro believe Islam is a rosy, benign religion with some sort of divide between Islam and the Muslim jihadists who have killed over 35,000 innocent people in my lifetime and the U.S. has spent billions of dollars fighting them overseas while spending millions to establish a department to fight Islamophobia here at home.

The reality is, there is no divide in Islam. The Quran is the tie that binds all Muslims together. They all attend the same mosques and all follow the same Quran and its author, Muhammad, who had 11 wives, one of whom was a 9 year old girl. Many jihadists are more devout Muslims than the upscale Muslims living in western democracies who try to soft pedal the theology. Americans don’t know what goes on at their local mosque. American Muslims who never climbed over the border wall into Israel, sent $12 million to Hamas before the FBI shut down their pipeline.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/november/hlf112508
 
Myrtle said:
The best study of Islam is watching what they do, not reading what they claim to believe. If that doesn’t make what they stand for clear to you, nothing will.
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( also @Paco Dennis )

Just like the Bible, the Qur'an can be interpreted and misinterpreted.

For example, the Qur'an says...

"Let there be no hostility except toward those who practice oppression" and "Let there be no compulsion in religion"

and also "persecution is worse than slaughter"

and it also commands "do not begin hostilities, embark on any act of aggression, violate the rights of others, or harm the innocent."

There's nothing in the Qur'an that literally calls for a "holy war" to compel people to accept Islam or die. But extremist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, etc, interpret it precisely that way, and use the term "jihad" as justification for global aggression.

And ...I guess you'd say "moderate Islamists" see that as a corruption of the Qur'an. Just like when Catholics accused Protestants of corrupting the Bible. Which basically led to a lengthy, deadly holy war of sorts. (in Ireland)
 
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My statement about watching the actions of Islam has been quoted a couple of times and it seems I may not have been clear. I am simply saying actions speak louder than words. Beheading babies speaks really loud to me.

Then comes the moderate/radical argument. If there are moderates and if the moderates don’t want to be known by the actions of the radicals it is their responsibility to get rid of the radicals because they are all known by the same name and the same book.

While comparing Protestant and Catholic diagreements/wars to Islam I would just remind that this is 2023 and Protestants and Catholics have not fought any holy wars for centuries. When is Islam going to stop?
 
Myrtle said:
... if the moderates don’t want to be known by the actions of the radicals it is their responsibility to get rid of the radicals because they are all known by the same name and the same book.
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What would you have them do? I don't think the Gazan Palestinians have many options.

Although, it does look like options will be opening up for them soon.
(Israeli forces have eliminated a whole slew of top Hamas commanders and ...erm... holy men [self-appointed])
 
I was speaking of Islam as a whole. Would it be ok if the Catholics were still warring? There are different sects of Catholics but the entire religion would be held responsible for any Catholics that attacked and cut off heads. Surely there isn’t any doubt that Catholics would throw out the murderous sect.

You seem to disagree that the members of a religion are responsible for their own members, their own beliefs and their own practices.

How can the rest of the world change Islam when they don‘t or can‘t or won’t change their own.
 
One more question, who changed the Catholics and the Protestants? It seems to me that it must have come from within.
 

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