13-year-old shot and killed by police

JonDouglas said:
It's not the public at large that is demonizing and criminalizing police. It's more the media and special interest groups who're promoting the idea, often in the face of elected officials who're part of the group or too weak, timid or insecure to stand up for the police.
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That's exactly what's happening. The media's politics for now are aligned with the anti police anti gun crowd so every incident is exploited with the media giving saturation microscopic coverage and commentary. Decades ago these stories would be the lead for a few a days then they would wind up in a magazine or syndicated tv news shows like Inside Edition etc. And a book about a year later.

This was tragic but not surprising. The police are not setting out to shoot/kill as many as possible. The media and politicians make it seem that way but they are not. One statistic that might help is how many foot pursuits or car stops end without a shooting. People don't realize many of these situations happen everyday. Yes there are incompetent or sloppy police but there are also perps/suspects that push their luck too far. If not daring the police they are like a child seeing exactly how much they can get away with.
 

This was a sad and tragic event but IMO the officer made the right split-second decision to fire his weapon.

I would like to learn the backstory of what led up to this 13-year-old young man running the streets at that late hour with a gun.

Did something happen at home, in school?

Was it the camaraderie of being part of a gang, the thrill, the power?

Did he start down this path at age 7, 9, 11?

What were the first signs and what could be done to help keep him and others like him out of the streets?
 
A criminal act had been committed, and police were in pursuit of the alleged perpetrators. The 13 year old had a gun in his hand. And in the few seconds, it took the incident to occur. the teen raised his hands to probably shoot at the cop. The cop shot him. It took less than the time to read that sentence. It is understandable why a teen would run away. And it's understandable, why the teen's noncompliance would cause great concern for the cop's life. I don't think the age of the teen had much to do with his death. The outcome would have been the same for a 23, 33, 43, 53, etc.
 

The problem with the press isn't the topics they cover; it's that they don't ask the right questions.

Like, what was this 13 y/o kid doing out on the street at 2:30 in the morning? Has anyone asked the parents about that?

And the Indianapolis FedEx shooting... How was he able to obtain an AR-15 when he was known to be a threat? He was even investigated by the FBI and his mother reported him to the police for wanting to commit suicide by cop.
 
Aunt Bea said:
This was a sad and tragic event but IMO the officer made the right split-second decision to fire his weapon.

I would like to learn the backstory of what led up to this 13-year-old young man running the streets at that late hour with a gun.

Did something happen at home, in school?

Was it the camaraderie of being part of a gang, the thrill, the power?

Did he start down this path at age 7, 9, 11?

What were the first signs and what could be done to help keep him and others like him out of the streets?
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The probable backstory is that he was a product of casual sex with father unknown and grew up with a druggy mother.
 
Wow, what an indictment of that boy’s mother. I have counseled inner city children when I lived in big cities. . The issues are complex, and one size does not fit all. Also, as a woman, and a single mother, I find your assumptions around the lady’s morality and lifestyle both unjustified and insulting.
 
Irwin said:
The problem with the press isn't the topics they cover; it's that they don't ask the right questions.

Like, what was this 13 y/o kid doing out on the street at 2:30 in the morning? Has anyone asked the parents about that?

And the Indianapolis FedEx shooting... How was he able to obtain an AR-15 when he was known to be a threat? He was even investigated by the FBI and his mother reported him to the police for wanting to commit suicide by cop.
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He zipped across to the State of Texas and scooped one up.
 
Until I see the complete report about him being a gang member and assaulting a woman, I will not judge him or his parents. The part of the video I saw was with his hands up and being shot. Why didn't the cop use his taser or shoot him in the leg? If he threw the gun down, then why shoot him? Until a lot is verified, I am not sure what happened except what I saw in the video. And don't jump on me if I don't agree with y'alls assumptions. I want proof he was a gang member and that he assaulted a woman. There are a lot of rumors going around and not much proof being presented by some of you.
 
terry123 said:
Until I see the complete report about him being a gang member and assaulting a woman, I will not judge him or his parents. The part of the video I saw was with his hands up and being shot. Why didn't the cop use his taser or shoot him in the leg? If he threw the gun down, then why shoot him? Until a lot is verified, I am not sure what happened except what I saw in the video. And don't jump on me if I don't agree with y'alls assumptions. I want proof he was a gang member and that he assaulted a woman. There are a lot of rumors going around and not much proof being presented by some of you.
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By no means am I defending bad cop behaviour or actions, Terry, but if I were on a daily beat in Chicago, my tolerance for gang members would be at ground-zero, and so I suspect the officer may have already made his mind up that he was going to use lethal force in the situation, account one less gang member he would need to concern himself over in the future, and/or, helping preserve the safety of his fellow colleagues.
 
Sunny said:
This one is a real tragedy. It sounds like the cop didn't realize this was just a kid until it was too late.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/us/adam-toledo-police-shooting-body-camera/index.html
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The people responsible for this death are the parents who let a 13 year old run around at 230 in the morning with a pistol.

I don't care if you're a single mom, single dad, gay parents, trans parents. You don't let kids run wild at night. It's your fault. Take some responsibility. The policeman was doing his job, pursuing an armed suspect down a dark alley in the middle of the night. He should get a medal and the mother should spend some time in jail.
 
I was watching Fox News Sunday this morning and heard an interesting idea from Karen Tumulty Columnist for the Washington Post. One of Karen's thoughts is that we should not have the police involved in traffic stops, foot chases, etc... because they have become too dangerous.

I've heard that said about high-speed automobile chases and some police departments have limited them in various ways.

I'm not sure where we should draw the line but it does seem like it is becoming impossible to keep order using existing methods.

The one thing that I'm sure of is that I would not encourage anyone that I care about to consider a career in law enforcement.

I can't imagine why anyone would put their life and livelihood on the line every day in an effort to protect Americans that don't seem prepared to provide them with the support they need.
 
JimBob1952 said:
The people responsible for this death are the parents who let a 13 year old run around at 230 in the morning with a pistol.

I don't care if you're a single mom, single dad, gay parents, trans parents. You don't let kids run wild at night. It's your fault. Take some responsibility. The policeman was doing his job, pursuing an armed suspect down a dark alley in the middle of the night. He should get a medal and the mother should spend some time in jail.
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It sounded like the cop was extremely traumatized by what happened. Immediately after he fired his shot and the kid went down, the cop ran over to him and kept trying to keep him alive. He will live with this horrible occurrence for the rest of his life. This sounds like a real tragedy for the Toledo family, and also for the cop.

I would say the main person "responsible" for the death was Roman. I'm glad he was arrested. Everybody is blaming the kids' parents, who may have not even known he was out of the house. But what about an adult who is teaching a kid how to be a killer?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fatal-police-shooting-13-year-adam-toledo/story?id=77115626
 
Sunny said:
It sounded like the cop was extremely traumatized by what happened. Immediately after he fired his shot and the kid went down, the cop ran over to him and kept trying to keep him alive. He will live with this horrible occurrence for the rest of his life. This sounds like a real tragedy for the Toledo family, and also for the cop.

I would say the main person "responsible" for the death was Roman. I'm glad he was arrested. Everybody is blaming the kids' parents, who may have not even known he was out of the house. But what about an adult who is teaching a kid how to be a killer?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fatal-police-shooting-13-year-adam-toledo/story?id=77115626
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Can you or anybody else on SF imagine a situation in which you didn't know that your 13 year old was out on the streets of Chicago at 230 in the morning?
 
Irwin said:
They should arrest the parents for allowing their 13 y/o son to be out at 2:30 in the morning.

As far as the cop, he was probably justified. The kid was armed and suddenly spun around with his hands in front of him, which could have looked like he was preparing to shoot. The cop didn't know the kid had thrown away the gun. He only had a split second to process the information. While the kid did put his hands above his head, he should have done that without spinning around.
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According to the video I saw, the child clearly had his hands up in the air. In the video no gun was visible. The child was 13, so he was supposed to be cop savvy? And what happened to shoot to wound? I saw a story about an elderly gentleman who took down a would be perp (forgot what the guy was up to) but he shot him in the leg. This man wasn't a trained police officer. If an elderly citizen can take a shot like that, why can't a police officer? They used to do it that way. What happened?
 
OneEyedDiva said:
According to the video I saw, the child clearly had his hands up in the air. In the video no gun was visible. The child was 13, so he was supposed to be cop savvy? And what happened to shoot to wound? I saw a story about an elderly gentleman who took down a would be perp (forgot what the guy was up to) but he shot him in the leg. This man wasn't a trained police officer. If an elderly citizen can take a shot like that, why can't a police officer? They used to do it that way. What happened?
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There was less than one second elapsed between the time in which the "child" turned toward the officer with a pistol in his hand, then tossed the pistol behind him and put his hands up. That's at night, after a foot chase and shots fired.

This is what I would call assumption of risk. Run around in the big city at night with a pistol in your hand, take the risk of dying. The boy's mom will get Ben Crump on the case and squeeze $15 million or so out of the city, when what she should get is jail time.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
According to the video I saw, the child clearly had his hands up in the air. In the video no gun was visible. The child was 13, so he was supposed to be cop savvy? And what happened to shoot to wound? I saw a story about an elderly gentleman who took down a would be perp (forgot what the guy was up to) but he shot him in the leg. This man wasn't a trained police officer. If an elderly citizen can take a shot like that, why can't a police officer? They used to do it that way. What happened?
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"Heat of the moment". Everyone responds differently in a stressful and adrenaline induced state.
 
The officer did society a favour in dispatching the 13 y/o punk, because at age 13, already involved in a gang and running around all hours of the day and night with a gun, it was just a matter of time before he took the life or lives of innocent people.

His mother will have time now to reflect on how she could have and should have gained control of her out of control child.

A hard lesson and one that hopefully more derelict parents will take notice of.
 
JimBob1952 said:
The people responsible for this death are the parents who let a 13 year old run around at 230 in the morning with a pistol.

I don't care if you're a single mom, single dad, gay parents, trans parents. You don't let kids run wild at night. It's your fault. Take some responsibility. The policeman was doing his job, pursuing an armed suspect down a dark alley in the middle of the night. He should get a medal and the mother should spend some time in jail.
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Yes, a parent who is asleep at 2:30am & doesn't know his kid left the house is a bad parent.
In fact, any parent who ever sleeps is a bad parent.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
According to the video I saw, the child clearly had his hands up in the air. In the video no gun was visible. ...
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It's the timing between having obvious possession of a gun, throwing it down, spinning around and raising his hands. All occurred within a second. No one chasing someone with a gun at night could've mentally processed that in so short a period of time.
 
Irwin said:
The mother, Elizabeth Toledo, reported her son missing two days before he was shot. She said he used to sneak out at night.
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If I'd been caught one time sneaking out at night, my mom would've wired me for sound and bolted my window and door from the outside. That's why I never tried it.
 
Aunt Marg said:
The officer did society a favour in dispatching the 13 y/o punk, because at age 13, already involved in a gang and running around all hours of the day and night with a gun, it was just a matter of time before he took the life or lives of innocent people.

His mother will have time now to reflect on how she could have and should have gained control of her out of control child.

A hard lesson and one that hopefully more derelict parents will take notice of.
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Exactly !
 
Shalimar said:
Wow, what an indictment of that boy’s mother. I have counseled inner city children when I lived in big cities. . The issues are complex, and one size does not fit all. Also, as a woman, and a single mother, I find your assumptions around the lady’s morality and lifestyle both unjustified and insulting.
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I may have assumed too much and did not mean to be insulting especially to a single mother.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
According to the video I saw, the child clearly had his hands up in the air. In the video no gun was visible. The child was 13, so he was supposed to be cop savvy? And what happened to shoot to wound? I saw a story about an elderly gentleman who took down a would be perp (forgot what the guy was up to) but he shot him in the leg. This man wasn't a trained police officer. If an elderly citizen can take a shot like that, why can't a police officer? They used to do it that way. What happened?
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I'm sorry Diva.. But I will have to argue with you on this whole comment....
Please watch the video again... THE VIDEO... not the one frame picture the media has inflamed the ongoing race/cop divide with.
You are an officer, responding to a shooting call, at 230 in the morning in a violent area, and have someone with a gun running away... By the video I watched there is NO WAY you could tell this was a child. You have A SPLIT SECOND to make a choice... Or you dont go home.
Training teaches you to shoot center mass in a reaction situation... sniper type situation I can see attempting wounding...
The elderly gentleman... I'll bet wasn't trying to wound...
I hate the loss for the family, and this Officer will always battle his split second decision for the rest of his life.
What I hate even worse is the way this will be used be folks to further the split in the US people.
 


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