A one-legged dementia-hit care home resident died after being Tasered, Hit with a Baton and Pepper sprayed by police

It's so very sad. Takes me back to when my grandma had dementia. It's sad enough they have it and then to be brutalized. Those cops need some lessons in dealing with those who have dementia first of all. Then they need to be punished.
 

Ruthanne said:
It's so very sad. Takes me back to when my grandma had dementia. It's sad enough they have it and then to be brutalized. Those cops need some lessons in dealing with those who have dementia first of all. Then they need to be punished.
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I agree Ruthanne ... and anyone excusing them for being inexperienced doesn't cut it either.. because in fact Rookies are newly trained so they have everything fresh in their minds about how to handle a situation..
 
My cousin is a counselor on the psychiatric ward of a major hospital.

I don't know if he's ever been confronted by a patient wielding a weapon, but he's been attacked, kicked, bitten, scratched, punched, and bruised by psychiatric patients on more than one occasion. He's never pepper sprayed, tasered, or beaten a patient with anything, including his fists. Fortunately, he's very fit, muscular, and more than capable of literally wrestling someone to the ground and physically restraining them until security arrives and has done so countless times. I'll have to ask him how he would've handled this situation.

I understand most people wouldn't be able to physically restrain someone, but an old man in a wheelchair is already "restrained". It's not as if he was capable of jumping up or chasing and stabbing someone. There's no reasonable excuse for the abominable way this was handled.

Bella ✌️
 
First, clear the room, as the knife could always be thrown. Once people are safe, second order of operation, worry the patient may harm himself, attempt negotiating if the employees wish, and within policy, all this time the police should be on their way. They have assault shields. Let them handle it.
 
ohioboy said:
First, clear the room, as the knife could always be thrown. Once people are safe, second order of operation, worry the patient may harm himself, attempt negotiating if the employees wish, and within policy, all this time the police should be on their way. They have assault shields. Let them handle it.
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He was already in an empty room.... when the police arrived..
 
I doubt very much that they're still actively employed as Police officers...they're probably suspended on full pay

"Gross misconduct notices have now been served on the two officers involved, both police constables, along with letters advising them they are under criminal investigation for manslaughter.

 
Holly the subsequent info you posted clears up a lot of questions. We know now he was alone, he was pepper sprayed, he was tasered, & a baton was used. The extent of the baton use might explain why he was sent to the hospital & why the officers are under criminal investigation.

No matter how it's looked at they were wrong.
 
I think most are assuming that Burgess is a one legged, enfeebled Mr. Chips ,who wouldn't hurt a fly". He was diagnosed with "dementia'" which literally means "out of one's mind", so, at the time of the incident. he could have been paranoid, extremely irritated and agitated. The fact that he wouldn't surrender the knife to the staff suggests something like that. The staff had to call the police, which suggests that Burgess was not compliant with the knife. It also suggests the staff did view Burgess as an out of control danger to himself and others. You cannot allow a knife wielding, demented resident to continue to be a threat, regardless of his age. Burgess was a real threat to the lives of others in the nursing home. I don't know if the cops overreacted. I wasn't there. I have no idea what kind of fight Burgess put up, if any. I spent 10 years working at a VA (Veterens) nursing home, and some of those sweet little old men, "who never hurt a fly" sent me and most of the staff to Emergency Rooms. I think I'd wait for what the investigation says before I hang the cops.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I think most are assuming that Burgess is a one legged, enfeebled Mr. Chips ,who wouldn't hurt a fly". He was diagnosed with "dementia'" which literally means "out of one's mind", so, at the time of the incident. he could have been paranoid, extremely irritated and agitated. The fact that he wouldn't surrender the knife to the staff suggests something like that. The staff had to call the police, which suggests that Burgess was not compliant with the knife. It also suggests the staff did view Burgess as an out of control danger to himself and others. You cannot allow a knife wielding, demented resident to continue to be a threat, regardless of his age. Burgess was a real threat to the lives of others in the nursing home. I don't know if the cops overreacted. I wasn't there. I have no idea what kind of fight Burgess put up, if any. I spent 10 years working at a VA (Veterens) nursing home, and some of those sweet little old men, "who never hurt a fly" sent me and most of the staff to Emergency Rooms. I think I'd wait for what the investigation says before I hang the cops.
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BTW, you just can't let a demented patient sit alone in a room with a knife. What are you going to do, sit there and watch him slit his throat?
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I think most are assuming that Burgess is a one legged, enfeebled Mr. Chips ,who wouldn't hurt a fly". He was diagnosed with "dementia'" which literally means "out of one's mind", so, at the time of the incident. he could have been paranoid, extremely irritated and agitated. The fact that he wouldn't surrender the knife to the staff suggests something like that. The staff had to call the police, which suggests that Burgess was not compliant with the knife. It also suggests the staff did view Burgess as an out of control danger to himself and others. You cannot allow a knife wielding, demented resident to continue to be a threat, regardless of his age. Burgess was a real threat to the lives of others in the nursing home. I don't know if the cops overreacted. I wasn't there. I have no idea what kind of fight Burgess put up, if any. I spent 10 years working at a VA (Veterens) nursing home, and some of those sweet little old men, "who never hurt a fly" sent me and most of the staff to Emergency Rooms. I think I'd wait for what the investigation says before I hang the cops.
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what part of ..he was in an empty room.... didn't you read ?
 
I remember when I worked in a nursing home specializing in residents with behavioral issues. We had a resident who was aggressive and loved to physically bully other residents.

One night I found him pulling the blankets off another resident who was non-verbal and almost completely unable to move. I managed to back him away from the resident he was bullying and got myself between them to keep him away. It took about 15 minutes for enough help to arrive to move the aggressive resident out of the room.

Longest 15 minutes of my life.
 
hollydolly said:
what part of ..he was in an empty room.... didn't you read
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What would happen if the demented knife wielder didn't like being in his room, and wheeled into Mrs, Johnson's room and slashed her to death. Or plunged the knife into his own chest?
My point, holloydolly, is that Burges may not be the sweet man , he used to be, and could possibly be an extremely agitated, irrational and a dangerous threat to all in that home. And in that state, I've seen men put up a hell of fight. So, before I hang the cops, it might be better to let the investigations do their work.
 
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All police in England, wear "Body Cameras", which have
to be recording as soon as the officers arrive at the scene,
where they are required to "Keep the Law", both should
have been recording unless there are rules if there are two
officers, but I think that at least one should have been on.

Mike.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
What would happen if the demented knife wielder didn't like being in his room, and wheeled into Mrs, Johnson's room and slashed her to death. Or plunged the knife into his own chest?
My point, holloydolly, is that Burges may not be the sweet man , he used to be, and could possibly be an extremely agitated, irrational and a dangerous threat to all in that home. And in that state, I've seen men put up a hell of fight. So, before I hang the cops, it might be better to let the investigations do their work.
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There can be a lot of what if's.
In articles Holly has pasted known is he was alone, he was in a wheel chair, he had one leg.

We don't know what kind of knife he had. We don't know why pepper spray wasn't effective enough. We don't know why the taser wasn't effective enough. We don't know why a baton was used or how it was used.

Police protocol is one thing, thinking of ways to disarm a one legged man in a wheel chair is another.

Back to what if.

What if since there were two police officers, one got a sheet or blanket available due to where they were. One distracted the man while the other threw the sheet or blanket over him? Unable to see, flailing to remove the sheet or blanket both officers could have subdued him.

Like you I hope the investigation explains the why of how he ended up going to the hospital & what happened to the police officers.
 
hollydolly said:
wrong !! Wrong and Wrong!!..he had dementia.. he was 93 years old... they didn't have to Taser him... they didn't have to use a Baton on him.. who was terrified of an old man in a wheelchair with dementia.. an old man who didn't know where he was, and could barely walk... who was he going to chase down with the knife.. ? They pepper sprayed him, that was enough to get the knife off him... ..The rookie cops over-reacted and that's why they're facing disciplinary charges..
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Totally agree, we hear of this kind of behaviour from police more and more.
 
I don't want to prolong this. But I think most are way underestimating the damage a demented knife wielder can do, even if he has only one leg and in a wheelchair. And you are surrounded by elderly , unable to get out of his way. It's irresponsible to allow any knife wielding threat to remain a threat. You get stabbed by a 93 year old, it's going to fell as bad getting stabbed by a 39 year old. And I also believe some are underestimating Alzheimer's devasting effect with its extreme agitation and intense anger. I'm not justifying the cop's actions. But the situation may not be as black and white, as the article makes it.
 
Mike said:
All police in England, wear "Body Cameras", which have
to be recording as soon as the officers arrive at the scene,
where they are required to "Keep the Law", both should
have been recording unless there are rules if there are two
officers, but I think that at least one should have been on.

Mike.
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Yes, I'd like to see the video from those cams.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I think most are assuming that Burgess is a one legged, enfeebled Mr. Chips ,who wouldn't hurt a fly". He was diagnosed with "dementia'" which literally means "out of one's mind", so, at the time of the incident. he could have been paranoid, extremely irritated and agitated. The fact that he wouldn't surrender the knife to the staff suggests something like that. The staff had to call the police, which suggests that Burgess was not compliant with the knife. It also suggests the staff did view Burgess as an out of control danger to himself and others. You cannot allow a knife wielding, demented resident to continue to be a threat, regardless of his age. Burgess was a real threat to the lives of others in the nursing home. I don't know if the cops overreacted. I wasn't there. I have no idea what kind of fight Burgess put up, if any. I spent 10 years working at a VA (Veterens) nursing home, and some of those sweet little old men, "who never hurt a fly" sent me and most of the staff to Emergency Rooms. I think I'd wait for what the investigation says before I hang the cops.
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I agree with waiting for the results of the investigation. That the resident was alone when approached by the police tells me that the staff did their job of removing the resident from other residents who might get hurt. But what happened between removing the resident and him being found alone by the police? I inquiring minds want to know …
 

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