About slavery

Alligatorob

Alligatorob

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Location
Northern Utah, transplanted from Florida/Louisiana
This is an interesting article and raises some hard questions about what can or should we do about our past sins of slavery.

Earl and Countess of Wessex: Why Grenada wanted to talk to royals about slavery​


A quote:

"My family, the Trevelyans, owned about 1,000 slaves on five different sugar plantations in Grenada in the 17th and 18th centuries.

When slavery was abolished in 1834, our family, along with 46,000 others in the UK, received compensation from the British government for the loss of our property.

We received about £3m in today's money. The enslaved got nothing.

In fact, they had to work for their owners for free for another eight years - another form of enslavement."

Of course things in the US went differently. As I have said here before my ancestors were slave owners, and they lost those slaves in the US Civil War, no government compensation.

It is pretty clear to me that the effects of slavery and its aftermath are still impacting many black people today. Hard to explain the socioeconomic differences between descendants of slaves and their white counterparts today any other way. Exactly how and why that's the case is harder to understand. This is of course a generalization based on averages, many individual slave descendants are doing quite well, and many individual white people are not.

Even harder to know what can or should be done about it. Interesting and important question, I believe.
 

It is a very important question indeed.

I wish I had an answer that would take away the pain and suffering of the enslaved, but I don't.
So much wrong can not be forgiven with just an apology, and if it can be forgiven by some, it will not be for all.

Over here we have had such a horrible dark past with the First Australians, who are the owners of this land.
If trying to wipe them out wasn't bad enough the stolen generation was right on the heels.

That's one of the reasons I will not celebrate Australia day on Invasion day.

Stolen Generation.
 

I abhor all forms of slavery including modern slavery that still exists, even in so called liberal democracies. However time is an issue. How long ago was Charles II King of England? I don't know off the top of my head but he died in 1685.

When the potential of the New World and the Indian subcontinent was understood, the scramble to exploit them was not actually driven by the British monarchy so much as by greedy capitalists who saw an opportunity to make great fortunes by selling slaves to the colonies and importing the products of their slavery back to the UK.

I understand that Elizabeth I took an active interest in profit and wasn't above encouraging privateers to steal the cargos of other European nations, and of course the Crown was the recipient of customs and excise duties on rum and other imports from slave colonies.

William Wilberforce (1759 - 1833) fought hard for 20 years to have the British slave trade abolished. In 1807 he was successful, not in abolishing slavery itself, but the trade in slaves. The Slave Trade Act 1807, officially An Act for the Abolition of the Slave Trade abolished the slave trade in all parts of the British Empire. It passed through Westminster and was signed by King George III. By this time the American colonies had broken away from the empire (1776?) Slavery and the slave trade continued in some states for a long time after that. The wound is still not fully healed.

I have no idea where Grenada fits into this picture but they are still part of the Commonwealth of Nations, and if an apology from the current British Royal family will help them to put the past behind them and move forward, I am all for making that gesture, as long as it is done sensitively, and in good faith.

Perhaps this duty will fall to Charles when he takes the throne. He could do it when he makes his first royal tour as King. Grenada and other former slave colonies should be on his itinerary. The line leading from Charles II to Charles III could become symbolic of a bright future born out of a dark and bloody past.
 
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The trouble is the current debate is only about the enslavement of people of colour.

The pyramids were built by enslaved Jews, Hadrian's wall was built by enslaved Britons.

slavery has been used since time began but people tend to forget about any slavery other than the Afro Caribbean variety.

Are we going to pull down the pyramids and delete all reference to Hadrian's wall, or pull down all the castles in Wales that were built by Welsh slave labour?
 
Alligatorob said, "It is pretty clear to me that the effects of slavery and its aftermath are still impacting many black people today. "
I think that's partially true. Slavery still affects slave owners, today. Slave owners aren't viewed favorably, anymore. At one time owning 1,000 slaves was a badge of accomplishment. Today, it is a social embarrassment. There is a lot of guilt associated with slavery. It is a system of forced labor, by the use of brutal intimidation, where one person owns another. I don't see anything noble in that.
 
I agree. We can't undo the past, but we can do our best to rectify the lingering poison of racism. One place to begin is with education. It's well known that in this country, schools in poorer areas don't receive the same funding, teaching expertise, etc. that the schools in more affluent areas do. Kids starting kindergarten already have a big gap between rich and poor. (Which often means White or Black.) So work on providing better pre-school education in poor neighborhoods, so the kids starting kindergarten at least have a fighting chance.

What the kids see on TV makes a difference, too. We need more shows like Sesame Street, less stupid violence. And there should be more shows showing a realistic picture of what life was like for the poor and the enslaved, back in the "good old days."

I don't think giving people money is the answer. But money should be invested in providing more advantages in Black neighborhoods. And for those who inherited their wealth from slave-owning ancestors, how wonderful if they would start foundations, schools, community centers, medical clinics, etc. to try to pay back some of the advantages they enjoy, due to someone else being treated like a farm animal instead of a human being.
 
""And for those who inherited their wealth from slave-owning ancestors,""
A bit harsh on people today, since you aren't allowed to choose your ancestors. People who never owned slaves (and that would be most of us) should not be made to owe those who were never slaves (which would again be most of us). The rest of your post I agree with.
 
Isn't it time to put the past behind us and look to the future? I still maintain that when slavery was abolished, all those former slaves could have returned to Africa. They chose to stay in a white society even though those white people had been former slave owners. What does that tell us about their preference?
Even today black people are leaving Africa of their own accord and trying to emigrate into Europe and America.....white societies! They go west, not east.
If all the black people who have been born and educated in America and Britain were to emigrate to Africa and use their experiences and education to the benefit of Africa would that continent become as successful as America, or would it all revert to pre-colonial times? An interesting thought!
 
Your post disgusts me @Lavinia. Sorry. Most American blacks precede most whites regarding length of time spent in the U.S. This is their home, they are American, as or more American than the majority of whites who arrived hundred of years after them. American black people owe nothing to Africa, and white America owes plenty to them--keeping them in poverty for centuries while whites have had a head start by being allowed to accumulate property and cash.

Black Americans are Americans first. They have contributed to American society in so many ways. Maybe some whites should return to where they came from? Didn't mean that seriously, we are all Americans.

When I was a child there were people still alive who had been enslaved. So, this is not an issue of the far past, but reaches into the present.
 
""Black Americans are Americans first""

Then why do they keep insisting on being called African Americans? Then there's the fact Native Americans were here before ALL of you, bt no one is fussing about the injustice done (and are STILL doing) to THEM! And if it wasn't for THEM, and the Code-Talkers, we might all be speaking German today. Where is the equality for THEM? When I was a child, the children were still bing taken from parents and put in boarding schools to teach them to be white.
 
Slavery and human Slave Labor has been a fact for as long as history has been recorded. Part of the Human "weakness" is the Strong taking advantage if the Weak. It's not right, and should always be banned. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to lead a decent life, and take advantage of the opportunities available. But First, people need to be Smart enough to utilize those opportunities.

The Era of Slavery, in the U.S., is a Dark period in our history. However, the European slave traders who brought shiploads of African slaves to the U.S. did Not go into the jungles of Africa to capture their "cargo". They showed up at the ports, and bought slaves who had been taken by other Africans. Todays Blacks can blame those of their own "ethnicity" for slavery, as much as they can blame the slave owners of the prior centuries.

There is talk of "reparations" today to "compensate" descendants of this era. I would NOT support such a program. My ancestors came to the U.S. through Ellis Island in the early 1900's...and no one in our ancestry has ever had anything to do with slavery.

I fully support equal education and job opportunities for Everyone.....but those who look upon their local street gangs and drug dealers, as their "role models" can find "sympathy" in the dictionary.
 
$$ spent on education, or the lack there of, is not the issue. For example, in 2019, New York City spend over $28,000 per pupil. The lowest expenditure, by state, in 2019 was Idaho, who spend approx $8,000 per pupil. Yet many if not most of our students are outperformed by students whose countries spend much less.

Schools


p.s. The Buckeyes came to the Colonies in about 1670. That was my 8-great grandfather, Thomas Buckeye. AFAIK, none of my ancestors owned slaves, since most were as poor as a church mouse...
 
Don M. said:
The Era of Slavery, in the U.S., is a Dark period in our history. However, the European slave traders who brought shiploads of African slaves to the U.S. did Not go into the jungles of Africa to capture their "cargo". They showed up at the ports, and bought slaves who had been taken by other Africans. Todays Blacks can blame those of their own "ethnicity" for slavery, as much as they can blame the slave owners of the prior centuries.
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Absolutely absurd. I can buy heroin on the street, but I wouldn't. I could be offered a slave, but I wouldn't buy one. The supply was due to the Demand of white people. The whites are guilty of purchasing them.
 
Pepper said:
Absolutely absurd. I can buy heroin on the street, but I wouldn't. I could be offered a slave, but I wouldn't buy one. The supply was due to the Demand of white people. The whites are guilty of purchasing them.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but my limited understanding of the slave trade is that the slaves brought to the new world were already enslaved in Africa. And, of course, whites are not the only ones who purchased slaves.

Anthony Johnson
 
@Buckeye
How does your comment forgive the people who bought the slaves? How does that absolve them of anything? How does that make them less responsible? If something is offered must you take it?

I'll tell you. White Christians convinced themselves slaves were less than full humans. 3/5s of a human to be exact. Like owning a farm animal, we don't question having cows. Etc.
 
Lavinia said:
I still maintain that when slavery was abolished, all those former slaves could have returned to Africa. They chose to stay in a white society even though those white people had been former slave owners.
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Don't think that is generally true.

Most did not have the resources for such a move and even if they had for many it wasn't clear where to go. Let alone what to do and how to fit in once there. Africa is a big place with lots of different peoples, languages and religions. Many of the slaves were generations removed from Africa and a mix not only of the different African peoples but also whites, Indians, etc.

Liberia was set up as a place former US slaves could go and about 15,000 did. It did not work out all that well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia
 
Pepper said:
@Buckeye
How does your comment forgive the people who bought the slaves? How does that absolve them of anything? How does that make them less responsible? If something is offered must you take it?

I'll tell you. White Christians convinced themselves slaves were less than full humans. 3/5s of a human to be exact. Like owning a farm animal, we don't question having cows. Etc.
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And why do you wish to absolve the people who sold slaves? I can not buy a thing without there being a willing seller. I have no reason to defend or absolve slave owners, and neither can I defend or absolve the African sellers of slaves. It takes two to tango...

And I will tell you that over 360,000 White Christians died in order to end slavery in the US.

p.s. - What do you think Anthony Johnson's descendants should receive or pay in the form of reparations?
 
Just for a little levity here, I have watched the movie “Barbershop” at least a dozen times. In one setting, Eddie, which was played by Cedric the Entertainer, made a comment that made me laugh until I almost had tears in my eyes. The barbers and clients were talking about African-Americans should receive reparations. Eddie was against receiving any and his line was, “What good would reparations do, except make Cadillac the number one dealership in America.” It was funny coming from him, but may sound racist coming from me, so if I have offended anyone, I apologize. It wasn’t meant that way.
 
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