About those pronouns, is there already a thread?

I love the English language, and I used to love ***. I worked as an editor. If APA had said to use "they," I would have done so.

I lived in a place where many residents were nonbinary, trans, etc., and/or preferred to be called "they," for whatever reason.

Sure, it's hard to get used to, and I wouldn't use "they" in my current location. Not yet, anyway. Personally I'm willing to call people whatever they want.

I'm sure we have all wondered how to address or refer to certain people at one time or another. Is your doctor Dr. Smith or Pete? How about the local priest you grew up with? And when you go to Mexico, do you object to calling everyone Licenciado or Ingeniero?

Language changes. I don't mind.
 

I don't think I've run across non-binary language in real life yet, but I'd much rather use words that I know in slightly different ways, then to have to learn totally new words (i.e., I'd rather use 'they' then 'ze'), though if I start to hear the new word used regularly I suppose I'm not too old to learn a few new words. Also on the plus side, ze provides another use for the 'z' letter in Scramble, so that is useful.

I'm so glad that gendered nouns were gotten rid of in English, no doubt the transition from 'Old English' to 'Middle English' stressed out the older generation a thousand years ago. I've been doing the DuoLingo online learning for Spanish, and seriously Spanish needs to drop gender from words like good, night, and day, I get dinged almost every lesson for mixing up whether night or day requires the feminine or masculine version of the word 'good'.

I wonder what the new version of English will be called or whether just changing pronoun usage is enough. So far we have Old, Middle, and Modern English (I think), so maybe now we are moving into Post-Modern English.

I'm so used to having the pronoun indicate the gender but the more I think about it the more reasonable it seems to drop it unless knowledge of the person's sex is needed. When someone is listed as 'Dr' I live without knowing if its a man or a woman, and it doesn't really matter which it is (the vast majority of the time).
 
I rarely encounter one of these non-binary types. There was one working in the local Walmart near where I used to live and it seemed like more of a fashion statement than anything. And weird, but "they" were helpful. See, that doesn't make any sense, since it was only one person. Maybe combine 'he' and 'she' and call them 'heesh'. Heesh was very helpful. That makes more sense.
 

I'm fine if someone wants to change what gender they want to be addressed as. If someone is going with the "gender fluid" which changes daily or more, don't expect me to know what your identity is at that minute and I don't want to be berated because I got it wrong in someone's mind.

I think this trend could be great for some personality disordered people. Their need for attention can be insatiable. Believe me, I know.

I also started that thread here about the thrift store incident. Individual with a beard got offended because he was kindly refered to as "sir" by two older volunteers. Also came in with a big dog and no mask, required at the time. Made a scene. Entitled jerk.
 
Because they/them/their already have meanings - and those meanings are incompatible with a single person who doesn't identify as male or female - it is indeed confusing.

"It" indicates no gender, so that doesn't work either. What we really need is a new set of pronouns that indicate non-specified gender. Maybe we could borrow neutral pronouns from another language.

Let's remember that the adoption of Ms (for women of unidentified or indeterminate marital status) came from women, and "they/them" came from the community of people who don't identify as he/him or she/her. Therefore any new gender-neutral pronouns will need to come from, or at least be widely accepted by, those who are comfortable being identified by the new terminology.
 
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As an older gay man, I don't understand it all but I will respect whatever they choose to call themselves. No one understood me either in the old days, so who am I to question the wishes of today's gay youth? We were at the mall recently and there were clearly men who were moving more toward the spectrum of becoming women. I may not get it, but more power to them.
 
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JaniceM said:
Something I noticed awhile back: in the past, when somebody came up with dumb fads they faded away within relatively short periods of time, but these days it's different. Maybe it's the internet bringing like-minded people together, but it's like the entire population is expected to go along with fads and 'that's the way it is.'

On this subject- no, 'they' and 'them' are not singular terms. And it bugs the * out of me needing to cooperate with this nonsense in work projects.
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All it takes is for everyone to continue with the correct terms, and not be brow-beaten into accepting this nonsense. People seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves!
 
They can't technically be a they if they're one person. However, it is safer to say they because you never know for sure if he/she will offend one of them. Sometimes they may identify as a woman but not be dressed as such one day. I'm sorry if you look like a dude and sound like a dude I'm calling you Sir or whatever. I'm no mind reader and if you're not dressed accordingly where we can tell, I don't think you have any right to complain. If you wanna identify as a woman then I'd better see the curlers in your hair and the lipstick on your face. But that's JMO. ;)
 
These folks are sick, crazy, nuts or just plain stupid. Take your choice of words. I am more concerned about a lack of doctors, nurses, police and quality of life which is quickly disappearing in my country than worrying about some "weirdo" who doesn't know if they are male or female.

Yap! Those who wrote that the internet is responsible for bringing all the crazies together got it right. One crazy person alone is one crazy person. Thousands of crazies on the internet is a powerful force to be reckoned with. Anyone here for a "NeoNazi" group? How about a nongender group? No! Maybe a club for people who like to eat snakes?
 
@Packerjohn Though I probably wouldn't word it as you did (fine that you did) you do bring up a really good point. Someone's gender is not my priority. But some want it to be. This could work on younger people, but probably not on our age group.

And there are people who have de-transitioned and gone back to the gender they were born with. Some after taking hormones and it clearly did irreparable damage to their bodies. They have also said they went down an internet rabbit hole thinking changing their gender would solve everything. One woman had been severely sexually abused, so changing to male was a protection. But she really wasn't, she went back to being female. This poor person needed and deserved extensive therapy. Not this BS.
 
Remy said:
@Packerjohn Though I probably wouldn't word it as you did (fine that you did) you do bring up a really good point. Someone's gender is not my priority. But some want it to be. This could work on younger people, but probably not on our age group.

And there are people who have de-transitioned and gone back to the gender they were born with. Some after taking hormones and it clearly did irreparable damage to their bodies. They have also said they went down an internet rabbit hole thinking changing their gender would solve everything. One woman had been severely sexually abused, so changing to male was a protection. But she really wasn't, she went back to being female. This poor person needed and deserved extensive therapy. Not this BS.
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I suspect this is probably the case with a good 80% of these people. Its too bad they couldn't get any REAL mental health help. Thats why its such a crime to allow it in children.
 
Lou Reed said it best “so he pluck his eyebrows and shaved his legs and he was a she, hey babe take a walk on the wild side……”

Or maybe The Hollies

‘Is that a woman or man, I’m not the world’s most passion it guy, but afraid I’m man and so is Lola, LOLA, Lola”
 
ronaldj said:
Lou Reed said it best “so he pluck his eyebrows and shaved his legs and he was a she, hey babe take a walk on the wild side……”

Or maybe The Hollies

‘Is that a woman or man, I’m not the world’s most passion it guy, but afraid I’m man and so is Lola, LOLA, Lola”
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LOLA was written by Ray Davies and recorded by The Kinks (he was a member).

People feeling uncomfortable with the gender they were born with is nothing new.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
The problem is that we don't have a pronoun for "he/she", "his/hers", or "him/her". We need a pronoun that doesn't indicate gender. I agree that "they", their" and "them' are plural.
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horseless carriage said:
"It," maybe? What else would one expect?
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Could be

Maybe all this gender crap stems from the trauma of being the perpetual loser in the childhood game of tag

'TAG! YOU'RE IT!'
 
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Looked it up, and apparently the use of the singular they (including them, their, theirs and themselves or themself) is not new, and dates back to 14th century. Some examples:
  • "Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Could you please let them know where they can get it?"
  • "The patient should be told at the outset how much they will be required to pay."
  • "But a journalist should not be forced to reveal their sources."
Still not a change I am likely to make, but maybe its not such a big deal.
 
What saddens me the most in reading some of the posts on this thread, is the willingness of certain individuals to vilify those who are not mainstream. No compassion, rather

anger, dismissal, accusations of crazy or attention getting behaviour. I am so weary of going to funerals. Too many of our precious youth are dying, either driven to suicide, or

murdered on the mean streets etc. This is unconscionable. People, we are better than this!
 

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