Afghan Slaughter

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oldiebutgoody said:
The Taliban offered to surrender OBL to the USA via a third party (IIRC Saudi Arabia and Qatar were being considered for that transfer) if it could present evidence that he engineered the 9/11 attack. Bush declined the offer. Whatever the case, OBL has been dead for years which means there was no further "justification" for the continued occupation and exploitation.
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I strongly disagree. Everyone knows, or SHOULD know, that failed nation states (Muslim) serve as safe harbor for terrorists. We needed to be there for as long as possible until the Afghan gov't could stand on it's own. Unfortunately, those in power now refused to wait. When we pulled out, and especially when we removed U.S. air power, the Afghan gov't troops lost heart.
Now, it's too late. The fat is in the fire. At some point in the future, another Osama Bin Laden will strike at the heart of the U.S. There are waaaay too many 'soft' targets here. 6 men, armed with fully automatic AK-47's could wreak havoc at any large mall during Christmas rush.
 

jerry old said:
Are their any here that are not deeply embarrassed regarding our national policies towards other nations?
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Yes, it is obvious that oldiebutgoody, is not only NOT embarrassed but down right joyful that we have pulled out of Afghanistan.
 
senior chef said:
Yes, it is obvious that oldiebutgoody, is not only NOT embarrassed but down right joyful that we have pulled out of Afghanistan.
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I believe in the right of self determination and self governance. No one has the right to invade or occupy another land especially when it has no proven role in an act as grievous as 9/11. If you disagree show where such an act of colonization is allowed, legitimized, warranted, by the US Constitution and can prove that the Afghani government had any role in 9/11 then I can accept some measure of international sanctions on that country. In the 20 years that have transpired at no point has the International Court of Justice determined that it did nor did it impose any sanction for that crime.

The USA wasted $2 trillion, killed hundreds of thousands of Afghans, gave billions of our dollars to ruthless and exploitative capitalists who have now run away from the country with truckloads of cash. For that amount of money we could have financed health care in the USA and helped the poor who needed it rather than the greedy rich who profited from that war.

Sad that no pro war apologists are embarrassed by any of that.
 

senior chef said:
I strongly disagree. Everyone knows, or SHOULD know, that failed nation states (Muslim) serve as safe harbor for terrorists. We needed to be there for as long as possible until the Afghan gov't could stand on it's own. Unfortunately, those in power now refused to wait. When we pulled out, and especially when we removed U.S. air power, the Afghan gov't troops lost heart.
Now, it's too late. The fat is in the fire. At some point in the future, another Osama Bin Laden will strike at the heart of the U.S. There are waaaay too many 'soft' targets here. 6 men, armed with fully automatic AK-47's could wreak havoc at any large mall during Christmas rush.
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Now they have M-16s, courtesy of the U.S., and many other weapons made in the U.S.A.!
 
oldiebutgoody said:
I believe in the right of self determination and self governance. No one has the right to invade or occupy another land especially when it has no proven role in an act as grievous as 9/11. If you disagree show where such an act of colonization is allowed, legitimized, warranted, by the US Constitution and can prove that the Afghani government had any role in 9/11 then I can accept some measure of international sanctions on that country. In the 20 years that have transpired at no point has the International Court of Justice determined that it did nor did it impose any sanction for that crime.

The USA wasted $2 trillion, killed hundreds of thousands of Afghans, gave billions of our dollars to ruthless and exploitative capitalists who have now run away from the country with truckloads of cash. For that amount of money we could have financed health care in the USA and helped the poor who needed it rather than the greedy rich who profited from that war.

Sad that no pro war apologists are embarrassed by any of that.
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The simple fact remains that the Taliban gov't, prior to 9/11, knew full well the actions of Osama Bin Laden. He was running terrorist camps and the Taliban bloody well knew it. As I said before, "Support, and give safe harbor to terrorists... pay the price. "

This is definately not the end of world terrorism. Radical jihadist Muslims will continue to slaughter "non-believers" for centuries. If terrorist camps are not set up again in Afghanistan, OR more in Africa, they surely will be some other place.

PS: We, working together with the British, just barely stopped Jihadists, who lived in Great Britain, from blowing trans-Atlantic airlines out of the air. Captured records indicate that their plans were to explode 18 jumbo jets, all within 2 hours.
 
senior chef said:
This is definately not the end of world terrorism. Radical jihadist Muslims will continue to slaughter "non-believers" for centuries. If terrorist camps are not set up again in Afghanistan, OR more in Africa, they surely will be some other place.
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There you go. That's why it was a really bad idea to invade and occupy Afghanistan to go after terrorists who were training there. It didn't solve a damn thing. I'd be really surprised if in the long run, it didn't make things worse. We gave them more reasons to hate us. As if they didn't have enough already.
 
For anyone obsessed with the idea that terrorists are lurking in the Taliban government, there are always free to march into Afghanistan to fight off any such enemy whether real or imaginary.
 
Irwin said:
There you go. That's why it was a really bad idea to invade and occupy Afghanistan to go after terrorists who were training there. It didn't solve a damn thing. I'd be really surprised if in the long run, it didn't make things worse. We gave them more reasons to hate us. As if they didn't have enough already.
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The Jihadists hate us because of what we stand for... personal freedom AND because we are non-believers. Say what you will, they have been killing Christians and Jews since the 7th century. I have absolutely no reason to believe that they will ever stop.
 
Nobody outside of Afghanistan predicted such a rapid fall of the government. On paper, it appeared that the government had a fair chance to survive for a while, when Western troops withdrew. Apparently the Taliban had other ideas. What is remarkable the Taliban have gotten little to no opposition.
And the Jihadists hate us because we are in their country, and control it. It's the same reason they hated the USSR's invasion. Yes, there are religious factors, but the main reason was we were there in Afghanistan.
 
I studied this years ago. Most of us live in countries where we're free to pursue any religion. And perhaps we see Islam through that experience and have a live-and-let-live approach.

But check the Koran: non-Muslims have three choices:
(1) Convert to Islam; or
(2) Pay a tax:
"Jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جِزْيَة‎; [d͡ʒizjah]) is a per capita yearly taxation historically levied in the form of financial charge on permanent non-Muslim subjects (dhimmi) of a state governed by Islamic law."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya; or
(3) Die

It's not all hearts and flowers, is it?
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
And the Jihadists hate us because we are in their country, and control it. It's the same reason they hated the USSR's invasion. Yes, there are religious factors, but the main reason was we were there in Afghanistan.
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Oh, really ? Then tell us this; prior to 9/11, what Muslim country did the U.S. occupy ?
Answer: No Muslim country ! Yet that did not stop the Jihadists from launching 9/11.
 
Devi said:
I studied this years ago. Most of us live in countries where we're free to pursue any religion. And perhaps we see Islam through that experience and have a live-and-let-live approach.

But check the Koran: non-Muslims have three choices:
(1) Convert to Islam; or
(2) Pay a tax:
"Jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جِزْيَة‎; [d͡ʒizjah]) is a per capita yearly taxation historically levied in the form of financial charge on permanent non-Muslim subjects (dhimmi) of a state governed by Islamic law."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya; or
(3) Die

It's not all hearts and flowers, is it?
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Outstanding post ! BUT, some people will not understand until they are literally looking down the barrel of a Jihadists gun.
 
Oldbutgoody mentioned a former head of the nation: the men responsible for the current 'mess'.
He frolics in Dallas; i wonder what runs through his mind, does he watch TV.
He is still entitled to receive Intel from the feds, wonder if he read it.
 
In Osama bin Laden's November 2002 "Letter to America",[3][4] he explicitly stated that al-Qaeda's motives for their attacks include: Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, support for Israel in Lebanon, the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia,[4][5][6] US support of Israel,[7][8] and sanctions against Iraq.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks

Here's his full letter:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Bin Laden mostly just hated Jews and the U.S. support for Israel. It had nothing to do with our "freedoms." Muslims have a long history of hating Jews. They built their Dome of the Rock shrine directly on the site of the destroyed Jewish Temple just out of spite. Assholes.
 
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Don M. said:
Yeah, you're probably right in my haste to use the term "laughing". Instead I would imagine that a certain person in enjoying some of the "mumbling and bumbling" that is going on in an attempt to handle this nasty situation.
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You would be very wrong with your thinking. Do you even know this person you are writing about? I think not, yet you make erroneous statements to make your shills think you do. The person you mention loves this country and did many positive things while his opportunity to do so existed.
 
Devi said:
I studied this years ago. Most of us live in countries where we're free to pursue any religion. And perhaps we see Islam through that experience and have a live-and-let-live approach.

But check the Koran: non-Muslims have three choices:
(1) Convert to Islam; or
(2) Pay a tax:
"Jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جِزْيَة‎; [d͡ʒizjah]) is a per capita yearly taxation historically levied in the form of financial charge on permanent non-Muslim subjects (dhimmi) of a state governed by Islamic law."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya; or
(3) Die

It's not all hearts and flowers, is it?
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Sounds like the rulings made during the Reformation, Counter Reformation, and Inquisition. Anyone who dared to stray from all that were executed. Same churches applauded Hitler and gave Stalin a Christian burial. BTW, Bush attempted to "justify" his war on the ME by calling them a "crusade". No hearts and flowers there, either.
 
jerry old said:
Oldbutgoody mentioned a former head of the nation: the men responsible for the current 'mess'.
He frolics in Dallas; i wonder what runs through his mind, does he watch TV.
He is still entitled to receive Intel from the feds, wonder if he read it.
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I believe he was barred from that privilege, wasn't he?
 
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