Another ethics question - the death of Cecil the Lion

Weak but what the hell, when you don't have the aces or face cards, play the deuces and treys and pray.
 

Misty said:
BREAKING NEWS: Cecil the lion's brother Jericho shot dead by poachers in Zimbabwean park
By WILLS ROBINSON FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 12:55 EST, 1 August 2015 | UPDATED: 13:33 EST, 1 August 2015

Cecil the lion's brother Jericho has been shot dead by poachers in a park in Zimbabwe.
The animal was protecting Cecil's lion cubs after he was shot dead by Minnesota dentist, Walter Palmer earlier this month, sparking outrage around the world.
Johnny Rodrigues, Chairman for Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, said in a statement: 'It is with great sadness and regret that we report that Jericho was shot dead at 4pm this afternoon.
'We are absolutely heartbroken. We have no further details but will advise as soon as we know more.'


Before his death there had been concerns Jericho would not be able to hold the territory of Cecil's cubs alone and could be chased away by rival lions.
Unprotected, the lionesses and cubs are now under threat and also move away or be killed.
Last week Mr Rodrigues, told the Daily Mail Online Jericho was keeping the cubs safe from any rival males.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-poachers-Zimbabwean-park.html#ixzz3haeXX0My
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Just a rumor. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lion-brother-jericho_55bd1261e4b0d4f33a030d2b?
 
Pleased to hear it but not pleased about this bit:

An unidentified foreign hunter killed the second lion (not Jericho) illegally on July 3, a park official told Reuters.
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Presumably some hunting is legalised and controlled to prevent lions and other species fro becoming more threatened than they already are. The illegal hunters/poachers are undermining these aims.

One can sympathise with the locals who need bush meat but who eats big cats?
 
rt3 said:
Don't you have anything but "straw man" arguements?
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I made my "argument" in my earlier post. I need nothing more to dispose of the position that trophy hunters are "sportsmen". They are wasteful, wanton killers of animals to satisfy their own failures in the other aspects of their lives by hanging a animal head on their walls and bragging about their "death defying" killing of the beast. You, on the other hand have no credible defense for your own "bravery".
 
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QuickSilver said:
People hunting animals for sport and pleasure are murderers.. Men that practice bestiality are rapists.. Period.
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I don't want to detract from this "Cecil" post but I will say women also use animals for perverted pleasure. I'll concede the majority are probable men but whether male or female they are all perverts and rapists. Now, back to trophy hunters.
 
AZ Jim said:
I don't want to detract from this "Cecil" post but I will say women also use animals for perverted pleasure. I'll concede the majority are probable men but whether male or female they are all perverts and rapists. Now, back to trophy hunters.
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Yes... that happens too.. and they are perverts.. I don't and depending on your definition of "rape" are also rapists.. as an animal cannot consent to sexual contact with a human.
 
AZ Jim said:
I don't want to detract from this "Cecil" post but I will say women also use animals for perverted pleasure. I'll concede the majority are probable men but whether male or female they are all perverts and rapists. Now, back to trophy hunters.
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Just another one of your straw man arguements Jim, either in your presentation or rebuttal. You show no correlation and ssume causality even if you did the plural of antidote is not data.
but let's talk about a society that Disneyfies ( gives anthropomorphic behavior) to animals puts them in zoos and when something goes wrong, stands with there hand on their hips and shakes their finger, because they are control freaks. Same folks have their air conditioning going all night, all year swimming pools, and cause irreparable ecological and habit damage so they can be comfortable. Same folks that live in suburban area of large metro,areas so they don't have to deal with the crime and loss of control in the inner cities. Same folk who been to Idaho, were I grew up, for tourist season, Did you know the largest number of auto claims are from deer road kills in Idaho, Utah and Wyoming, but that's ok it part of
same folks that hide behind the Internet And call other people cowards. Do you know how much money goes to the public school system in Idaho from those nasty trophy hunters? Or ther public works in other states? So caught up in self righteousness you forgot the rest of the story. Who are the real cowards?
So the next time you watch the elephants at the zoo, since I doubt you will ever participate in their native world, don't be suprized when they turn around and point at you when they take a dump because that's what they think of you.
 
rt3 said:
Just another one of your straw man arguements Jim, either in your presentation or rebuttal. You show no correlation and ssume causality even if you did the plural of antidote is not data.
but let's talk about a society that Disneyfies ( gives anthropomorphic behavior) to animals puts them in zoos and when something goes wrong, stands with there hand on their hips and shakes their finger, because they are control freaks. Same folks have their air conditioning going all night, all year swimming pools, and cause irreparable ecological and habit damage so they can be comfortable. Same folks that live in suburban area of large metro,areas so they don't have to deal with the crime and loss of control in the inner cities. Same folk who been to Idaho, were I grew up, for tourist season, Did you know the largest number of auto claims are from deer road kills in Idaho, Utah and Wyoming, but that's ok it part of
same folks that hide behind the Internet And call other people cowards. Do you know how much money goes to the public school system in Idaho from those nasty trophy hunters? Or ther public works in other states? So caught up in self righteousness you forgot the rest of the story. Who are the real cowards?
So the next time you watch the elephants at the zoo, since I doubt you will ever participate in their native world, don't be suprized when they turn around and point at you when they take a dump because that's what they think of you.
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So Rt... do you want to tell us WHY you think it's OK for humans to hunt and kill animals for trophies and pleasure?
 
QuickSilver said:
That ass didn't think about Cecil and his Pride with 24 cubs...when he slaughtered him. It was a concern that other males would move in to take over the Pride of females and kill all of Cecil's cubs.. Fortunately I understand that Cecil's brother has stepped in and is protecting the cubs..

I have no concern for the Murderer's family.. They'll figure it out... who cares.
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I absolutely agree with you. I know nothing of this individual's family situation. If he has a spouse, she knew what he was up to. The kids, if any, no it's not their fault. I'd hope he never has a client again but from some comments I've read and heard, there could be enough to that would still go to him. My hope is he'd have to get a job as the dentist in some prison someplace.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Pleased to hear it but not pleased about this bit:



Presumably some hunting is legalised and controlled to prevent lions and other species fro becoming more threatened than they already are. The illegal hunters/poachers are undermining these aims.

One can sympathise with the locals who need bush meat but who eats big cats?
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older big cats get very mean lost teeth, can't poop etc. Females make most of the kills and feed the big guys because they can't stand his nagging. If either the females or males become isolated they will pick the easiest kill.
it takes a lot of meat to feed each progressive animal that's higher on the food chain.
the ratio of trophy lions to total male lion depends on the definition of trophy. There is no Boone and Crockett as such. The term trophy used here simply means highly regarded.
The term illegal is also bandied about here having no real meaning. All it means is that I can't hop on a jet go there shoot, come home. Some official has has to be paid. If that offends anyone, then welcome to the real world.
 
Kitties said:
I absolutely agree with you. I know nothing of this individual's family situation. If he has a spouse, she knew what he was up to. The kids, if any, no it's not their fault. I'd hope he never has a client again but from some comments I've read and heard, there could be enough to that would still go to him. My hope is he'd have to get a job as the dentist in some prison someplace.
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im sure that the hunters etc. will take care of the guy etc. the only the crime here is in your head
 
rt3 said:
Just another one of your straw man arguements Jim, either in your presentation or rebuttal. You show no correlation and ssume causality even if you did the plural of antidote is not data.
but let's talk about a society that Disneyfies ( gives anthropomorphic behavior) to animals puts them in zoos and when something goes wrong, stands with there hand on their hips and shakes their finger, because they are control freaks. Same folks have their air conditioning going all night, all year swimming pools, and cause irreparable ecological and habit damage so they can be comfortable. Same folks that live in suburban area of large metro,areas so they don't have to deal with the crime and loss of control in the inner cities. Same folk who been to Idaho, were I grew up, for tourist season, Did you know the largest number of auto claims are from deer road kills in Idaho, Utah and Wyoming, but that's ok it part of
same folks that hide behind the Internet And call other people cowards. Do you know how much money goes to the public school system in Idaho from those nasty trophy hunters? Or ther public works in other states? So caught up in self righteousness you forgot the rest of the story. Who are the real cowards?
So the next time you watch the elephants at the zoo, since I doubt you will ever participate in their native world, don't be suprized when they turn around and point at you when they take a dump because that's what they think of you.
Click to expand...



Ok...you've gone into a rant craze now. Zoos, air conditions, swimming pools, ecological damage, crime, inner cities, auto claims, road accidents etal. Who are the cowards? They are the people with their high power rifles and scopes or compound bows and arrows who spotlight (in many cases) animals in the wild for the thrill or trophy. Your anger at the world in general in no way supports your puny arguments in support of this barbaric and cowardly action. What a way to try and prove your manhood or maybe make up for some inadequacy. Either make a good argument to support this asinine action of back off because all your red herrings don't fool anyone.
 
No, your definition of morals is just that -- yours. hunting in the USA is regulated. I don't like poachers either. Most of the poaching in Africa is done by what we would call gang bangers in the U.S. They use semi automatic military weapons with armour piercing type bullets and riddle the animal. As they are only after the ivory the body doesn't matter. Lions are seldom hunted by this group. What I would like to see is the local government put an ok on trophy hunters hunting them. Trophy hunters would come from all over the world
lion or big game culling is different, because USD will buy/feed/ so many in that part of the world. It is difficult to know how the trophy fee will be divided, but you can bet it gets passed around on a cat. Elephant will feed an entire village.
the current outrage is directed at the wrong group, getting facts is like reading 3 different Indian news papers.
when a big elk such as Jim describes is left, you must remember there is no waste in nature.,it feed 43 crows, seven coyotes, 115 magpies, 2 million flies etc. I can guarantee that the elk would prefer this than feeding some human.
a real waste is that the fish and game departments in most states will not let people pick up road kill deer and use it. It's good that predators eat a lot of it, but in most cases it is taken to a dump by a state highway official.
 
AZ Jim said:
Ok...you've gone into a rant craze now. Zoos, air conditions, swimming pools, ecological damage, crime, inner cities, auto claims, road accidents etal. Who are the cowards? They are the people with their high power rifles and scopes or compound bows and arrows who spotlight (in many cases) animals in the wild for the thrill or trophy. Your anger at the world in general in no way supports your puny arguments in support of this barbaric and cowardly action. What a way to try and prove your manhood or maybe make up for some inadequacy. Either make a good argument to support this asinine action of back off because all your red herrings don't fool anyone.
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jim you are not in control
 
a real waste is that the fish and game departments in most states will not let people pick up road kill deer and use it. It's good that predators eat a lot of it, but in most cases it is taken to a dump by a state highway official.
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That is absolutely not true... When we hit a deer last year, the police had a call list of hunters that would come and either track down the wounded animal for meat OR take the carcass and use it for meat.. When we went past the site where we killed the deer the next morning it was gone.
 
rt3 said:
No, your definition of morals is just that -- yours. hunting in the USA is regulated. I don't like poachers either. Most of the poaching in Africa is done by what we would call gang bangers in the U.S. They use semi automatic military weapons with armour piercing type bullets and riddle the animal. As they are only after the ivory the body doesn't matter. Lions are seldom hunted by this group. What I would like to see is the local government put an ok on trophy hunters hunting them. Trophy hunters would come from all over the world
lion or big game culling is different, because USD will buy/feed/ so many in that part of the world. It is difficult to know how the trophy fee will be divided, but you can bet it gets passed around on a cat. Elephant will feed an entire village.
the current outrage is directed at the wrong group, getting facts is like reading 3 different Indian news papers.
when a big elk such as Jim describes is left, you must remember there is no waste in nature.,it feed 43 crows, seven coyotes, 115 magpies, 2 million flies etc. I can guarantee that the elk would prefer this than feeding some human.
a real waste is that the fish and game departments in most states will not let people pick up road kill deer and use it. It's good that predators eat a lot of it, but in most cases it is taken to a dump by a state highway official.
Click to expand...

In Idaho (I KNOW) a deer, less frequently elk or moose, id immediately collected by the sheriff or state trooper and a local butcher prepares it and it is distributed to the county residents who need food. Now, that is not a waste and the animal didn't die to go on a wall in someones game room. Most western states and South Dakota also salvage road killed game.
 
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