Another ethics question - the death of Cecil the Lion

AZ Jim said:
In Idaho (I KNOW) a deer, less frequently elk or moose, id immediately collected by the sheriff or state trooper and a local butcher prepares it and it is distributed to the county residents who need food. Now, that is not a waste and the animal didn't die to go on a wall in someones game room. Most western states and South Dakota also salvage road killed game.
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A few months ago, as I was eating breakfast, I heard the neighbors beagle barking at something near the house. I looked out the kitchen window and saw she was interested at something near the road. After breakfast, I went out and found a young doe that had been hit by a car, was still alive, and managed to crawl up our slope. I called the local police, and asked them what is the policy in such a thing, and they said I could take it. So, I got one of my pistols, and put it out of its misery. I got about 50 lbs. of good venison. In Missouri, there are more deer killed by cars than hunters.
 
Don, as I see it the difference is that deer are not endangered animals. They are in fact herd animals, and in the absence of predators their numbers are likely to get out of hand. That is why the hunting of top order predators is very problematic. Also hunting animals in your own country or neighbourhood is likely to be more sustainable than travelling overseas and paying obscene amounts of money to take exotic animals in another country.

There is currently debate over here about whether trophy hunting of crocodiles should be allowed for economic reasons. Crocodiles were once on the way out but protections laws have seen their numbers rise and they can be a problem in the Top End in the more populated areas. The dangerous ones are shot by rangers in the interest of public safety. This poses no threat to overall numbers and tourism surrounding wild crocs is booming. I've been up there myself and seen them in their natural habitat. Awesome.

Australians generally don't want to see trophy hunting introduced. It just seems wrong somehow.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Don, as I see it the difference is that deer are not endangered animals. They are in fact herd animals, and in the absence of predators their numbers are likely to get out of hand. That is why the hunting of top order predators is very problematic. Also hunting animals in your own country or neighbourhood is likely to be more sustainable than travelling overseas and paying obscene amounts of money to take exotic animals in another country.

There is currently debate over here about whether trophy hunting of crocodiles should be allowed for economic reasons. Crocodiles were once on the way out but protections laws have seen their numbers rise and they can be a problem in the Top End in the more populated areas. The dangerous ones are shot by rangers in the interest of public safety. This poses no threat to overall numbers and tourism surrounding wild crocs is booming. I've been up there myself and seen them in their natural habitat. Awesome.

Australians generally don't want to see trophy hunting introduced. It just seems wrong somehow.
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Yes, in the absence of any natural predators, the deer populations have soared. Were it not for hunters and cars, large numbers of them would probably starve to death every Winter. Around here, there aren't any predators left, other than a few coyotes, so the only limiting factor on the deer is "people". We have had as many as 14 or 15 in our yard on a couple of occasions.

I've seen some of these alligators/crocodiles on a couple of trips down to New Orleans...taking a boat excursion out into the swamps. That's about as close to those things as I would want to get.

I'm not much on "trophies". I did keep a big 48 inch Muskellunge I caught while fishing a few years ago. It had swallowed the lure so deep that it was bleeding badly from its gills...so rather than just letting it rot, I had it mounted.
 
Good news......

[h=1]Cecil the lion: big game hunting banned in Zimbabwe as outrage grows over animal killing[/h]Source: Mirror

Big game hunting has been BANNED in Zimbabwe following the global disgust at the slaughter of Cecil the lion by a US dentist.

Authorities in the south African country announced the move after it emerged a second American hunter is wanted for allegedly killing a different lion in April.

According to the Daily Record, bow hunting has also been suspended.

Zimbabwean officials want to extradite 55-year-old dentist Palmer from Minnesota. He is reported to have paid £32,000 to hunt and kill Cecil, one of the best known lions in Africa.

Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cecil-lion-big-game-hunting-6185351
 
Jackie22 said:
Good news......

Cecil the lion: big game hunting banned in Zimbabwe as outrage grows over animal killing

Source: Mirror

Big game hunting has been BANNED in Zimbabwe following the global disgust at the slaughter of Cecil the lion by a US dentist.

Authorities in the south African country announced the move after it emerged a second American hunter is wanted for allegedly killing a different lion in April.

According to the Daily Record, bow hunting has also been suspended.

Zimbabwean officials want to extradite 55-year-old dentist Palmer from Minnesota. He is reported to have paid £32,000 to hunt and kill Cecil, one of the best known lions in Africa.

Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cecil-lion-big-game-hunting-6185351
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Very Good News! Thanks for posting the article, Jackie....Very Interesting!
 
I could Not believe the reports that this Ditz shot that lion with a Bow and Arrow. That is Beyond Stupid! In my years of hunting, I have come across several deer who have been shot with an arrow, then ran far enough away from the bow hunters such that they did not find the animal. Unless an archer is skilled enough to make a clean heart or lung shot, the animal can run and live for hours...even days...before they succumb to loss of blood, etc. To think that anyone could make a quick and clean kill on a lion with an arrow is wishful thinking. That alone, would convince me that this guy deserves little sympathy no matter what the future holds for him.
 
Don M. said:
I could Not believe the reports that this Ditz shot that lion with a Bow and Arrow. That is Beyond Stupid! In my years of hunting, I have come across several deer who have been shot with an arrow, then ran far enough away from the bow hunters such that they did not find the animal. Unless an archer is skilled enough to make a clean heart or lung shot, the animal can run and live for hours...even days...before they succumb to loss of blood, etc. To think that anyone could make a quick and clean kill on a lion with an arrow is wishful thinking. That alone, would convince me that this guy deserves little sympathy no matter what the future holds for him.
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I absolutely agree but the good of this is they have stopped big game hunting including Bow/arrow hunting. Hopefully that will last and make it easier to focus on poachers.
 
It makes me ill to use the word "good" but perhaps something positive will happen from this.

CNN just had some jerk on who paid 350 grand to shoot an endangered Black Rhino. I wish someone could explain the justification. He was defending that hunting helps animal preservation. I'm getting sicker and sicker.

I'm going to make a couple of donations that help big cats. I'm doing some research on the internet. I don't know what else to do.
 
Kitties said:
It makes me ill to use the word "good" but perhaps something positive will happen from this.

CNN just had some jerk on who paid 350 grand to shoot an endangered Black Rhino. I wish someone could explain the justification. He was defending that hunting helps animal preservation. I'm getting sicker and sicker.

I'm going to make a couple of donations that help big cats. I'm doing some research on the internet. I don't know what else to do.
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How can that idiot say that killing an ENDANGERED rhino helps animal preservation?? What absolute, unmitigated crap!!

And to pay $350,000 to kill an animal for fun? Surely the sadistic SOB can find something better to do with his money! Absolutely disgusting.
 
Don M. said:
I could Not believe the reports that this Ditz shot that lion with a Bow and Arrow. That is Beyond Stupid! In my years of hunting, I have come across several deer who have been shot with an arrow, then ran far enough away from the bow hunters such that they did not find the animal. Unless an archer is skilled enough to make a clean heart or lung shot, the animal can run and live for hours...even days...before they succumb to loss of blood, etc. To think that anyone could make a quick and clean kill on a lion with an arrow is wishful thinking. That alone, would convince me that this guy deserves little sympathy no matter what the future holds for him.
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You must have come from a family of "hunters" like I did? What you say is so true. Taking out an animal with a bow and arrow is beyond cruel. They usually do survive, are not caught and suffer unspeakably.

I'm not going to judge Dr. Palmer because enough people are already doing that. It's good to know that Zimbabwe has now outlawed big game hunting. One good thng has come out of this tragedy.
 
AZ Jim said:
Roy Rogers?
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Yes Jim, Roy Rogers went all over the world trophy hunting. He had all sorts of the trophies in his museum at Victorville, CA. I think they closed that down a few years ago. They were selling the items off but I heard they didn't sell too well. I'm not sure what finally happened to all that stuff. I should google and see where Trigger finally wound up.
 
Road kill is not very often processed and distributed in any of the western states, contrary to the reports here. If police get involved it has something more to do with a traffic hazard. It may get more attention in the Midwest, because of heavier traffic congestion.
the higher on the food chain the more endangered the animal, except humans.
If you don't think a good compound bow can take out any animal you haven't hunted much. Wounded game animals can be found during any hunting season with guns.
the arrows used in hunting are more lethal and have more knock down than a lot of rifle bullets. They are ,made of graphite or metal and have razor sharp blades usually 3 inches long and about 2 in. Wide. On entry they cut the veins and arteries cause death by blood loss. The 600 gr arrow can shoot completely thru a cat. The animal usually drops in its tracks. Big cats are thinned skin, but the problem is they can cover the 100 yards between you and them in seconds.
Zimbabwe has reopened game and lion hunting except on the "farms" (Antoinette I think). Which is were Ces and the Disneyland crowd go.

in the U.S. Big cats are hunted with dogs, the cat is cornered and shot with a lowly 22lr. Which causes the animal to bleed out. If shot with a "big gun" it ruins the pelt, and the usually fall out of the tree and take a couple of dogs with them.

two very large collections, Rogers and the Skaggs collection were purchased for large sums of money by private hunters. The funds were distributed to the purchase of private lands that have been set aside for all to enjoy and are not for sale. Some were bought by Ted Turner on his private ranch in Montana.
 
Kitties said:
It makes me ill to use the word "good" but perhaps something positive will happen from this.

CNN just had some jerk on who paid 350 grand to shoot an endangered Black Rhino. I wish someone could explain the justification. He was defending that hunting helps animal preservation. I'm getting sicker and sicker.

I'm going to make a couple of donations that help big cats. I'm doing some research on the internet. I don't know what else to do.
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your donations would be put to better use to a local animal shelter. The money bid for the Rhino fed a large portion of a country whose only natural resource is their animals. Your money will be wasted by an anti hunting group,that will pay for TV time against a country they have no say.
 
rt3 said:
your donations would be put to better use to a local animal shelter. The money bid for the Rhino fed a large portion of a country whose only natural resource is their animals. Your money will be wasted by an anti hunting group,that will pay for TV time against a country they have no say.
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You don't know anything about how or who I donate to. I am worried about donating for the animals in Africa because I do worry about where the money will go. I have so far donated to one big cat sanctuary here in the U.S.. I did some research on them and they are not open to the public. I liked that because I don't believe these animals exist for us to go and stare at them.

I also donate to a local small all volunteer cat shelter. I used to donate for farm animals but that movement doesn't seem to accept me.

It's my money and I'll donate as I want.
 
Great, stick to your guns. There are quite a few big shelters in the U.S. That take in abandoned Cougars. Kansas and Washington I think. The private ones are the best, no Disney for them.
 
I believe actress Tippi Hedren (Hitchcock's "The Birds", also Melanie Griffith's mother) own's and runs a big cat sanctuary. I've seen her on TV in interviews talking about it.
 
Adopt a Tiger - several sites available - offers opportunities for "adopting" and helping large cats through contributions.
 
I think it was plain wrong!! Find a better hobby and let the animals alone!
 

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