Australia today used helicopters and the army to enforce its 'Zero Covid' lockdown,

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Warrigal

SF VIP
The reason Australia in general and the eastern states are resorting to lockdown to stop the spread is that we don't have enough vaccine and we are second last in the developed world when it comes to vaccinating our population.

We have been lucky so far in that even with a numbers of blunders, insufficient availability of vaccines, failure to protect residents of aged care homes, and poorly managed hotel quarantine, the number of cases and the death toll has been very light in comparison to other advanced countries.

The low rate is primarily due to lock downs, social distancing, hand hygiene and mask wearing. It is also due to the willingness of most of us to co-operate with public health orders.

Some of my ancestors came here as involuntary migrants so I'll ignore the penal colony jibe. 😄

Lockdowns in Australia has been one of the measures we have taken to keep the virus from spreading widely in every state and city. The same cannot be said for US and UK where it has penetrated all parts of both countries. Vaccination is what authorities there are counting on now to limit the infection rate.

Australia and New Zealand have chosen a different approach. We are both island nations and that does make a good deal of difference. Should we just throw our hands in the air and just let things rip? How many lives should we sacrifice for a swim at Bondi ? Whose lives are the most expendable?
 

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JonDouglas

Senior Member
Location
New England
The reason Australia in general and the eastern states are resorting to lockdown to stop the spread is twofold

1. We have been lucky so far in that even with a numbers of blunders, insufficient availability of vaccines, failure to protect residents of aged care homes, and poorly managed hotel quarantine, the number of cases and the death toll has been very light in comparison to other advanced countries.

The low rate is primarily due to lock downs, social distancing, hand hygiene and mask wearing. It is also due to the willingness of most of us to co-operate with public health orders.

Some of my ancestors came here as involuntary migrants so I'll ignore the penal colony jibe. 😄

Lockdowns in Australia has been one of the measures we have taken to keep the virus from spreading widely in every state and city. The same cannot be said for US and UK where it has penetrated all parts of both countries. Vaccination is what authorities there are counting on now to limit the infection rate.

Australia and New Zealand have chosen a different approach. We are both island nations and that does make a good deal of difference. Should we just throw our hands in the air and just let things rip? How many lives should we sacrifice for a swim at Bondi ? Whose lives are the most expendable?
Two things that would bother me greatly in your situation are: 1. the loss of precious (to me) freedom and 2, the (inevitable) law of unforeseen consequences such as ADE. As for involuntary, my mother was sold into involuntary servitude, so I get it.
 

win231

Well-known Member
Location
CA
Here is a good, responsible report on the COVID variant Delta from Rochester Regional Health who is not the primary source of information, but they are noted for tracking and reporting competent and reliable information after they have substantiated the facts.I think it’s worth taking a few minutes to read it. The article may give some of us a little relief from all of the bad news. The point that was made stating that for those vaccinated, if they should contract the Delta variant, the worse they should expect is mild symptoms. And that 99.5% of all Delta variant deaths have been from unvaccinated people.
https://hive.rochesterregional.org/2021/07/what-to-know-about-the-delta-variant-this-summer
A "Good, Responsible" report is one that you choose to believe.
The information in that report conflicts with information in other good, responsible reports.
The fact is, very little is known about Covid, the mutations and the vaccine.
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
Life is not risk free, nor is modern medicine. We must weigh up every situation to see how great the risks are and how much risk we are prepared to take. When there are two opposing risks i.e. getting sick versus getting vaccinated, we usually choose the less risky, but not always.

I chose to fly over and down into the Grand Canyon in a helicopter. There was a small risk that the helicopter would fall out of the sky but I was very happy to take that risk. While in America I refused to take a risk on rabies or the plague so I refrained from getting close to some very appealing little furry critters. In Canada I paid particular attention to posters advising me how not to get killed by a bear. I didn't think it worth risk to go walking in the woods near our cabin and I obeyed all the rules about securing food and garbage.

Do you get that I am trying to say? In my lifetime I have been immunised since infancy against all Kinds of diseases including TB, tetanus, polio, meningitis, yellow fever, hep A, shingles, influenza, pneumonia, and now sars-cov-2. Never had a problem but several diseases on that list are potentially deadly. I choose the needle over the disease almost every time.
 

win231

Well-known Member
Location
CA
Life is not risk free, nor is modern medicine. We must weigh up every situation to see how great the risks are and how much risk we are prepared to take. When there are two opposing risks i.e. getting sick versus getting vaccinated, we usually choose the less risky, but not always.

I chose to fly over and down into the Grand Canyon in a helicopter. There was a small risk that the helicopter would fall out of the sky but I was very happy to take that risk. While in America I refused to take a risk on rabies or the plague so I refrained from getting close to some very appealing little furry critters. In Canada I paid particular attention to posters advising me how not to get killed by a bear. I didn't think it worth risk to go walking in the woods near our cabin and I obeyed all the rules about securing food and garbage.

Do you get that I am trying to say? In my lifetime I have been immunised since infancy against all Kinds of diseases including TB, tetanus, polio, meningitis, yellow fever, hep A, shingles, influenza, pneumonia, and now sars-cov-2. Never had a problem but several diseases on that list are potentially deadly. I choose the needle over the disease almost every time.
Your body, your health, your choice. Everyone's right to make.
The problem? People who choose not to get the vaccine have no problem with others who choose to get the vaccine; as I don't.
People who DO choose to get the vaccine try to get others to make the same choice & are verbally abusive & have a stupid holier than thou attitude.
 

JonDouglas

Senior Member
Location
New England
Has anybody taken a look at Sweden lately? That country didn't impose harsh lockdowns and they seem to be doing very well. This bit of info was sent to me. I haven't tried to, and probably won't, confirm it yet.

Anders Tegnell said on Friday that there was “a lot we do not know” about Delta and cautioned against drawing “far-reaching conclusions” about the coronavirus strain. He noted that the variant had been circulating in Sweden “for quite some time” with little effect, particularly in high-risk settings such as nursing homes.
 

WhatInThe

Well-known Member
Not sure what treatments or vaxxes being used in Australia but when data is starting to roll in that numerous vaxxes don't prevent the spread and are showing signs of needing a booster already for any country to wait for the ideal or best time to come out from the lockdowns and associated policy is risky let alone potentially long process.
 

JonDouglas

Senior Member
Location
New England
Not sure what treatments or vaxxes being used in Australia but when data is starting to roll in that numerous vaxxes don't prevent the spread and are showing signs of needing a booster already for any country to wait for the ideal or best time to come out from the lockdowns and associated policy is risky let alone potentially long process.
I keep thinking that the push for vaccination is so unbelievably strong from media, political and governmental sources that there almost has to be something very powerful, and possibly foreboding, behind it all. Compared to times past, the numbers just don't seem to justify all this hysteria, drama and push, especially when you consider how inaccurately the data was collected.
 

OscarW

New Member
Two things that would bother me greatly in your situation are: 1. the loss of precious (to me) freedom and 2, the (inevitable) law of unforeseen consequences such as ADE. As for involuntary, my mother was sold into involuntary servitude, so I get it.
I agree with your comments on freedom. Without it we have nothing! And yes, I'd rather risk dying than lose my freedom.

I'll never understand why so many people are willing to surrender it so freely even if it might buy some temporary safety from the problem du jour.

H.L. Mencken said:

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
Your body, your health, your choice. Everyone's right to make.
I understand where you are coming from, Win231, but that has never been the full story for me. As the mother of small children, later a grandmother and now a great grandmother I have often sublimated my needs and desires for the sake of the children. My choices have consequences that flow out to people who could be affected by by my actions.

I am a free agent but since I live in a community and depend on others for even my most basic needs - food, utilities, health care and so on, I have responsibilities that put some limitations on my freedom. Currently in lockdown, I am ordering my groceries online. I appreciate the service and don't want to be the pass Covid to the men who deliver our food so even though I have been vaccinated I don a mask and maintain the required distance to protect me, the men, their families and mine. I am prepared to observe the current mandates of our governments, state and federal, because they make sense. In time these mandates will no longer be a necessity and we can all frolic to our hearts' desire. Until then we are being asked to forgo a bit pf personal freedom for the sake of the community as a whole.

Now, Win231, do you understand where I am coming from?
 
I understand where you are coming from, Win231, but that has never been the full story for me. As the mother of small children, later a grandmother and now a great grandmother I have often sublimated my needs and desires for the sake of the children. My choices have consequences that flow out to people who could be affected by by my actions.

I am a free agent but since I live in a community and depend on others for even my most basic needs - food, utilities, health care and so on, I have responsibilities that put some limitations on my freedom. Currently in lockdown, I am ordering my groceries online. I appreciate the service and don't want to be the pass Covid to the men who deliver our food so even though I have been vaccinated I don a mask and maintain the required distance to protect me, the men, their families and mine. I am prepared to observe the current mandates of our governments, state and federal, because they make sense. In time these mandates will no longer be a necessity and we can all frolic to our hearts' desire. Until then we are being asked to forgo a bit pf personal freedom for the sake of the community as a whole.

Now, Win231, do you understand where I am coming from?

Your logic, as you state, is that these mandates will save mankind........when in fact, mankind doesn't need saving....not from covid anyway.
You've simply been brainwashed and led down a false path through fear and deceit......but there's still time to save yourself. Stay well.
 

mellowyellow

Senior Member
Thousands of protesters marched 2 weekends ago and planned another one last Saturday. The cops squashed it flat, not a soul was seen in the city. Job well done.
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
Your logic, as you state, is that these mandates will save mankind........when in fact, mankind doesn't need saving....not from covid anyway.
You've simply been brainwashed and led down a false path through fear and deceit......but there's still time to save yourself. Stay well.
Brainwashed? Moi? Bwaaahaaahaaa.
Even hypnotists can't put me under.
I won't allow them to take control of my mind.
I think for myself, thank you very much.
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
Thanks for the graph, and embedded the link which I followed. Can you please explain this version of the data which represents new cases in Florida for July this year.



The columns are showing a positive gradient. Are you confident that the final column is truly zero?
How did Florida go from about 75 new cases on July 22 (~18K on the red line) to zero new cases less than a week later? What is Florida doing to achieve this truly miraculous result?
 
Thanks for the graph, and embedded the link which I followed. Can you please explain this version of the data which represents new cases in Florida for July this year.



The columns are showing a positive gradient. Are you confident that the final column is truly zero?
How did Florida go from about 75 new cases on July 22 (~18K on the red line) to zero new cases less than a week later? What is Florida doing to achieve this truly miraculous result?
Call the CDC and ask them. I'm sure you wouldn't believe anyone else. ;)
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
Call the CDC?
You are surely aware that I live on the other side of the Pacific Ocean?

You live in Florida. You tell me what is happening there.
What is the reason for this dramatic turn around?

Alternately, we could both wait a couple of days to see what the next column looks like.
 
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