Before anyone else takes the shot

Good grief, JonDouglas, are you getting a Ph.D. in the subject? I thought this was an informal discussion forum!

Since nobody here is going to read all your footnotes and references, let me introduce some simple, common-sense thoughts on the subject.

1. If this vaccine, which was admittedly "rushed" (out of necessity) was causing deaths, horrifying reactions, etc., wouldn't there be some indication of that by now? People have been getting the vaccine in this country for half a year now.

2. The disease itself does cause many, many deaths (in the millions) and horrifying reactions. I have heard of very few, or none, from the vaccine.

3. I don't know about the correlation between education and receiving the vaccine. But the parts of the country with a higher proportion of educated people do have a higher rate of vaccination. The resistance seems to come largely from rural areas, which may or may not prove something about education.

4. Within the last few years, everyone I know has gotten the newest vaccines for shingles, flu, and pneumonia. Our doctors told us to get it, so we did. No big argument about it, that I have heard. Only this one has provoked so much anger, fear, insulting, skepticism, and nastiness often along political lines.

5. Any vaccine carries a certain amount of "risk," I suppose. We have to weigh the risk of the disease to ourselves against the risk of the vaccine. That is true of every vaccine in the world. From all I've read about this, the people who have received the vaccine are alive. Or at least, they haven't died from Covid or from the vaccine. And isn't that the bottom line?
By contrast, if people were dying of covid in the numbers the media would have us believe, why aren't we stepping over the bodies of people, especially homeless people, everywhere? Why don't we see unusually heavy activity at hospitals, doctors and nurses and emergency vehicles 24/7 so much so that the average person comments upon it.

Education has nothing to do with lining up for a vaccine. It's the mentality of the individual that will determine compliance, not their education level. The will of the collective will always be subordinate to that of the methodological individualist ie. autonomous individuals, people unafraid to think and decide for themselves. Trying to make a person feel ignorant because they have decided they do not want this vaccine is, well, ignorant in itself.

And what about people who cannot take the vaccine for medical or other reasons? Are they to be bullied and/or shunned for the rest of their lives for this decision? What of people on reservations or people with religious beliefs? And what about the homeless. I haven't ever seen them dying in greater numbers than before or do we just ignore homeless people because they don't count?

I believe there are a myriad of reasons why an individual may choose not to be vaccinated. This isn't a one size fits all situation.
 

By contrast, if people were dying of covid in the numbers the media would have us believe, why aren't we stepping over the bodies of people, especially homeless people, everywhere? Why don't we see unusually heavy activity at hospitals, doctors and nurses and emergency vehicles 24/7 so much so that the average person comments upon it.

Chic, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

It's in the Bible.
 
By contrast, if people were dying of covid in the numbers the media would have us believe, why aren't we stepping over the bodies of people, especially homeless people, everywhere? Why don't we see unusually heavy activity at hospitals, doctors and nurses and emergency vehicles 24/7 so much so that the average person comments upon it.

Education has nothing to do with lining up for a vaccine. It's the mentality of the individual that will determine compliance, not their education level. The will of the collective will always be subordinate to that of the methodological individualist ie. autonomous individuals, people unafraid to think and decide for themselves. Trying to make a person feel ignorant because they have decided they do not want this vaccine is, well, ignorant in itself.

And what about people who cannot take the vaccine for medical or other reasons? Are they to be bullied and/or shunned for the rest of their lives for this decision? What of people on reservations or people with religious beliefs? And what about the homeless. I haven't ever seen them dying in greater numbers than before or do we just ignore homeless people because they don't count?

I believe there are a myriad of reasons why an individual may choose not to be vaccinated. This isn't a one size fits all situation.
^^^ Most intelligent post I've seen on this topic to date.
As I mentioned previously, in the past year, while they were reporting "Crowded ER waiting rooms, hospitals filled to capacity, no beds available, patients on gurneys in hallways, corpses stacked in meat trucks in parking lots," I took 2 elderly friends to ER's on two different occasions to two different hospitals. Nothing but empty waiting rooms & no patients on gurneys in the hallway. And no meat trucks in the parking lot.
Four months ago, my sister went to the ER for a UTI. Again, 2 people in the waiting room, no patients in hallways & she was seen right away.

I was reminded of that "Twilight Zone" episode - "Where is Everybody?"
Perhaps the BS had a purpose - create sufficient fear so people would rush to get the vaccine without question.
You can fool some people some of the time, but........
 

Spike protein vaccines have been in "know" for a couple decades...the SAR's vaccine enabled the covid vaccine to get a jump start. Interesting interview with the maker of the SAR's vaccine, who commented that they offered to make a covid vaccine, but got no takers at the time.
 

Chic, believe it or not, we atheists are fully aware of what's in the Bible. Maybe more than the "believers!"
If you don't like me mentioning (gasp) the Bible, I'll add that that quotation is also attributed to Jonathan Swift. Is that secular enough for you?

Anybody who can dare to claim that not that many people can be dying of Covid, because their bodies are not piling up in the streets (which, by the way, they are in some countries), is clearly shutting their eyes and sticking their fingers in their ears. If you refuse to accept reality, there's little point in continuing this conversation. Maybe you'll get lucky and not catch it.
 
Good grief, JonDouglas, are you getting a Ph.D. in the subject? I thought this was an informal discussion forum!

Since nobody here is going to read all your footnotes and references, let me introduce some simple, common-sense thoughts on the subject.

1. If this vaccine, which was admittedly "rushed" (out of necessity) was causing deaths, horrifying reactions, etc., wouldn't there be some indication of that by now? People have been getting the vaccine in this country for half a year now.

2. The disease itself does cause many, many deaths (in the millions) and horrifying reactions. I have heard of very few, or none, from the vaccine.

3. I don't know about the correlation between education and receiving the vaccine. But the parts of the country with a higher proportion of educated people do have a higher rate of vaccination. The resistance seems to come largely from rural areas, which may or may not prove something about education.

4. Within the last few years, everyone I know has gotten the newest vaccines for shingles, flu, and pneumonia. Our doctors told us to get it, so we did. No big argument about it, that I have heard. Only this one has provoked so much anger, fear, insulting, skepticism, and nastiness often along political lines.

5. Any vaccine carries a certain amount of "risk," I suppose. We have to weigh the risk of the disease to ourselves against the risk of the vaccine. That is true of every vaccine in the world. From all I've read about this, the people who have received the vaccine are alive. Or at least, they haven't died from Covid or from the vaccine. And isn't that the bottom line?
You sure seem obsessed with the stuff I post. Some people will find it useful, some won't. Suggest you get over yourself., You're not the site editor
 
I find your posts interesting Jon and read every one you post in this thread.
Thank you, @Keesha . I know you can't please everybody and some do get riled up over this subject and/or personality differences. Once in a while you even see ego creeping into issue. You just post what you think might be interesting and./or useful/helpful and don't sweat the flak. But, you already knew that.
 
Thank you, @Keesha . I know you can't please everybody and some do get riled up over this subject and/or personality differences. Once in a while you even see ego creeping into issue. You just post what you think might be interesting and./or useful/helpful and don't sweat the flak. But, you already knew that.
No you can’t please everyone and we aren’t going to all agree. Thats reality. Members here reflect that reality. You aren’t hurting anyone by adding your opinions. We are all adults and have the right to make our own choices even if they clash with others. You handle the criticism well Jon.
 
Here's what the CDC has to say

CDC Vaccine data

As of today about 260 million doses have been administered. Text your zip code to 438829 and they will tell you where you can get vaccinated
 
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Education has nothing to do with lining up for a vaccine. It's the mentality of the individual that will determine compliance, not their education level. The will of the collective will always be subordinate to that of the methodological individualist ie. autonomous individuals, people unafraid to think and decide for themselves. Trying to make a person feel ignorant because they have decided they do not want this vaccine is, well, ignorant in itself.
{snip}
Well, upthread (post 104) I gave a link to a study at USC that sampled folks as to education, race, and getting the vaccine. It was never suggested that the findings showed causality, but it is clear that Black folks are less likely to get the shot than white folks, and folks without a college education are less likely to get the shot than folks with a college education. You can draw your own conclusions about the reasons for the correlations. Maybe Black folks have grown tired of being guinea pigs. Maybe college educated folks have been brain washed. I dunno.
 
And here's some more information about folks who haven't had the shot..

For $100 I'll get the shot

Link is to dailymail, but study was at USC. My apologies to those who don't like facts and stuff.
Funny how people shortchange themselves. I could use an extra $100. right now, but to get vaccinated with this stuff I'd want more than the govt. is willing to give. A shot of liquor or $100. bucks for what's on the line is insulting to say the least.
 
Is The CDC Changing Its Information Gathering Procedures Again? A Boston Globe/Bloomberg article titled CDC Limits Reviews Of Vaccinated But Infected, Spurring Concerns led me to ask that question.

Federal health officials this month decided to limit how they monitor vaccinated people who have been infected with Covid-19, drawing concern from some scientists who say that may mean missing needed data showing why and how it happens.
At the end of April, more than 9,000 Americans were reported to be infected after being vaccinated, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. While that’s a tiny percentage of the 95 million people fully inoculated at the time, researchers still want to find out what specific mechanisms may be spurring the infections.
Rare breakthrough cases are expected since no vaccines are 100% effective. But tracking and sequencing the cases helps in figuring out who may be more at risk, whether new variants evade the vaccines and when protection from the shots begins to wane. At the same time, those infected -- some of whom are suffering widespread medical issues, even if they’re not hospitalized -- say they feel lost as a result of the lack of information.
More at Boston Globe.

I posted this remembering it had been reported that the CDC previously altered it covid death counting methods in a way that would have significantly upped the body counts (e.g., from known/tested to suspected/symptomatic. It is good to remember that the CDC is a government bureaucracy and not an independent organization.
 
We re not having any jabs ....I feel they-have not been researched enough.....
Plus lots of reactions attached to them.....
Plus they are now saying you need the 3rd jab and a booster in-the winter....
It’s a joke ......it really is.....
 
I wish the Brits would stop called it a jab. A jab hurts. This "shot" (another bad word for it) feels more like a gentle poke. That's what they should call it. A poke.
 
We re not having any jabs ....I feel they-have not been researched enough.....
Plus lots of reactions attached to them.....
Plus they are now saying you need the 3rd jab and a booster in-the winter....
It’s a joke ......it really is.....
Are they still going on about a third shot probably being necessary? Someone is making a fortune off this.
 
I wish the Brits would stop called it a jab. A jab hurts. This "shot" (another bad word for it) feels more like a gentle poke. That's what they should call it. A poke.
Good point. I didn’t even feel it. It was only when the nurse said she’s put a little bandage on that I looked around. DH said the same thing.

My GD is terrified of needles and has refused to get a poke after seeing the news.
 
Good point. I didn’t even feel it. It was only when the nurse said she’s put a little bandage on that I looked around. DH said the same thing.

My GD is terrified of needles and has refused to get a poke after seeing the news.
Think is aggravates those that have a fear of needles to keep seeing these "jabbing" shot pix over and over again on the news. It is an added bonus to hear of those "long haulers" getting
symptomatic relief from the vaccine. Got a good friend who has the fatigue and other issues, so hopefully he may be helped when he gets the shot.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...haulers-symptoms-are-disappearing/ar-BB1gmHRR
 
Funny how people shortchange themselves. I could use an extra $100. right now, but to get vaccinated with this stuff I'd want more than the govt. is willing to give. A shot of liquor or $100. bucks for what's on the line is insulting to say the least.
Maybe the offer of free liquor is intended to do the same thing as free liquor to people while they're gambling - cloud their judgement.
 

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